15 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ok I was reading over some of the CW Q&A and there is a mention of there being Clan Aligned Merc Units which puzzles me. Do they not realize that there are absolutely zero Clan Merc units anywhere in Lore?

Also before you point to the Wolf Dragoons, they are/were a Clan loyalist unit tasked with gathering information on the Inner Sphere in preparation for the invasion. Though they technically posed as a merc unit, they were never really were a merc unit at least until they changed allegiance to the Inner Sphere.

Lastly, any Clan unit trying to pose as mercs would be treated as pirates and criminals and be hunted down and destroyed. Under no circumstances would any Clan actually hire mercs to fight for them.

That being the case, I am absolutely opposed to Clan Mercs because it just goes way to far against lore. If you want to be a Clanner, join a Clan, simple. Just like Mercs should be IS only because they are such a vital part of lore.

The point here is, I understand the game needs balance but there also needs to be some unique features to separate the factions. This needs to be one of them.

[Kain Demos]

Viktor Drake, on 12 November 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Ok I was reading over some of the CW Q&A and there is a mention of there being Clan Aligned Merc Units which puzzles me. Do they not realize that there are absolutely zero Clan Merc units anywhere in Lore?

Also before you point to the Wolf Dragoons, they are/were a Clan loyalist unit tasked with gathering information on the Inner Sphere in preparation for the invasion. Though they technically posed as a merc unit, they were never really were a merc unit at least until they changed allegiance to the Inner Sphere.

Lastly, any Clan unit trying to pose as mercs would be treated as pirates and criminals and be hunted down and destroyed. Under no circumstances would any Clan actually hire mercs to fight for them.

That being the case, I am absolutely opposed to Clan Mercs because it just goes way to far against lore. If you want to be a Clanner, join a Clan, simple. Just like Mercs should be IS only because they are such a vital part of lore.

The point here is, I understand the game needs balance but there also needs to be some unique features to separate the factions. This needs to be one of them.

Agreed. It is bad enough we are already forced to use C-bills.

I also have 6 (soon to be 7) IS 'mechs I cannot get out of my inventory.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I think what they said was that Clan Loyalists would align for CW "like mercs." Not that we would be mercs. My unit is clan loyalist. We are techincally not our own faction and for the purposes will have to align to one of the invader factions to b3 involved in CW.

So "like mercs" there will be timeframes we can align with a faction (akin to merc contracts), but we are not necessarily mercs. Its a similarity of mechanics. Thats it from what I read.

[Durant Carlyle]

Viktor Drake, on 12 November 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

If you want to be a Clanner, join a Clan, simple.

I will join a Clan if you show me where I can join Clan Blood Spirit, Clan Cloud Cobra, Clan Coyote, Clan Diamond Shark, Clan Fire Mandrill, Clan Goliath Scorpion, Clan Hell's Horses, Clan Ice Hellion, Clan Nova Cat, Clan Snow Raven, Clan Star Adder, or Clan Steel Viper in the game.

The four Clans already represented are unacceptable. I don't want to be a member of Clan Ghost Bear, Clan Jade Falcon, Clan Smoke Jaguar, or Clan Wolf.

Until the selection is expanded I remain a Clan Loyalist - a.k.a. Clan Mercenary.

[Telmasa]

I think it's possible for the concept of lone-wolf warriors and contracts to fit within clanner lore (clan diamond shark, anybody?). Maybe look at it as belonging to the Dark Caste.

[Kain Demos]

Durant Carlyle, on 12 November 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

I will join a Clan if you show me where I can join Clan Blood Spirit, Clan Cloud Cobra, Clan Coyote, Clan Diamond Shark, Clan Fire Mandrill, Clan Goliath Scorpion, Clan Hell's Horses, Clan Ice Hellion, Clan Nova Cat, Clan Snow Raven, Clan Star Adder, or Clan Steel Viper in the game.

The four Clans already represented are unacceptable. I don't want to be a member of Clan Ghost Bear, Clan Jade Falcon, Clan Smoke Jaguar, or Clan Wolf.

Until the selection is expanded I remain a Clan Loyalist - a.k.a. Clan Mercenary.

Unacceptable? The clans you listed aren't invading the IS at this time. If you don't like it then join another clan.

[Prussian Havoc]

Of course, there are those of us Mercenaries who will take advantage of lucrative contracting terms to backstop Clans as PGI counters any weak initial performance.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 12 November 2014 - 01:23 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Lukoi Banacek, on 12 November 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

I think what they said was that Clan Loyalists would align for CW "like mercs." Not that we would be mercs. My unit is clan loyalist. We are techincally not our own faction and for the purposes will have to align to one of the invader factions to b3 involved in CW.

So "like mercs" there will be timeframes we can align with a faction (akin to merc contracts), but we are not necessarily mercs. Its a similarity of mechanics. Thats it from what I read.

And here is the issue.

The Clans do not have any military organizations that function like this and do not tolerate these units existing. You are either part of an establish Clan or your a pirate with no loyalties. No Clan would turn toward any unit not expressly loyal and under direct control of their Clan for combat purposes. To do so would invite the ultimate disgrace and would likely invite all the other Clans to initiate a Trial of Absorption (Since the Clan using these sorts of units is obviously to weak to fight for themselves) or maybe even a Trial of Annihilation to purge a Clan that so violates the principles the Clans stand for.

Unfortunately implementing this is so completely and utterly lore breaking that it can't be implemented, not an continue to call this game Mechwarrior or set it in the same universe as Battletech.

Huge, Huge fopar to even consider Clan Mercs.

[RustyBolts]

Lukoi Banacek, on 12 November 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

I think what they said was that Clan Loyalists would align for CW "like mercs." Not that we would be mercs. My unit is clan loyalist. We are techincally not our own faction and for the purposes will have to align to one of the invader factions to b3 involved in CW.

So "like mercs" there will be timeframes we can align with a faction (akin to merc contracts), but we are not necessarily mercs. Its a similarity of mechanics. Thats it from what I read.

The same way I understood it. That way the Star Adders can play.

[Durant Carlyle]

Kain Thul, on 12 November 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

Unacceptable? The clans you listed aren't invading the IS at this time. If you don't like it then join another clan.

And PGI has already said they aren't adhering to the timeline. So no, I won't be joining a Clan until I can join the Clan I want to join. As I said before, I remain a Clan Loyalist.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Viktor you misunderstand what I wrote, obviously.

We are a Galaxy within the Adder Touman. As we do not in an invader unit, we are lumped altogether with other units as Clan Loyalists. When CW arrives we will align with an invader in order to participate...mercs are doing the same thing.

They align via contracts.

Clan units "bid in" to support another Clan (see the pretty obvious Hells Horses example of this). Its semantics.

No one in our unit is a merc, nor are we acting as mercs. We are not fighting for pay. There is a lore specific precedent for this already. You keep insisting its the same thing as merc units because PGI people made an unfortunate comparison b3cause the,mechanics are similar.

We are part of aan established Clan and where our notional Khan indicates we will contribute to the invasion corridor, we will.

[Nathan Foxbane]

There is also the matter of units issuing preemptive batchalls to be absorbed into another clan like many Home Clan units did during the Harvest Trials. While doing so with actual units is unusual, I imagine there were enough warriors so eager to be part of the invasion they did this. Not on the scale of the Harvest Trials which amounted to several Galaxies worth of troops for both Clan Wolf and Clan Jade Falcon, but perhaps on a Star or occasionally Trinary level. Enough to amount to several Clusters between all four Invading Clans.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 12 November 2014 - 03:15 PM.

[Impyrium]

I think the bigger issue here is the technicalities- it's going to throw a large load of complexity onto their plate if they need to differentiate between 'mercs' and 'faction units' and 'clans'. So I don't expect it on Phase II. HOWEVER, I fully expect that they'll look at it after that. While I fully have faith in PGI to do what they stated they would do for phase two, I am a little concerned that they plan to mostly leave it how it is afterwards.

Kain Thul, on 12 November 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

I also have 6 (soon to be 7) IS 'mechs I cannot get out of my inventory.

Look at is like this- they're war trophies. Clans have them, right? That's what I consider my Kit Fox and Timber Wolf anyway.

[Belorion]

They aren't merc units aligned to clans, they are units that belong to a clan, so your a galaxy or whatever.

I would think 5 man stars would be a bigger deal than unit alignment, but meh...


I have 0 clan mechs in my inventory.

[Hoax415]

Mercs/Merc Units can't take clan faction contracts. I think. I haven't read that they back peddled on that yet.

LNW/LNW Units (is this a thing?) may or may not even exist in CW. They cannot take clan faction contracts. I think. I know I've heard so little about them I think you can't join CW as LNW affiliated.

So Clan Daggerstar aka Clan Loyalist will function (it sounds so far) EXACTLY like Mercs but instead of being able to take a contract from any IS faction they can take a contract from any Clan faction.

Its really just the best workable solution. It lets people who want to be clan but want flexibility do that.

The problem is right now we just don't know how Faction-Loyalist gameplay works.

i.e. If your unit is Clan Wolf does the unit leader have to take a contract from Clan Wolf? If they do. Why? They are Clan Wolf.

If they took a 4-month contract wouldn't they be the EXACT same as Clan Loyalist aka Clan Daggerstar units on 4-month contracts?

That difference if there is any is something Paul and PGI have been very evasive about. I encourage anyone interested in that to post their questions in the Comstar Focus Group November 5th CW Update thread.

[Jin Ma]

Call it a "unit alignment" then. When i click on the faction tab, it doesn't say join a Merc unit. It says joint a "Unit"

Technically lone wovles would have a really hard time getting into a faction too. Even into clan factions. So why come we just have to click on a button and the alignment happens.

It doesn't have to be called a merc unit. It can just be called a Unit alignment.

Edited by Jin Ma, 12 November 2014 - 05:11 PM.