42 replies to this topic

[Joe Mallad]

The Boz, on 11 November 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

44, because the mechanism is convoluted beyond compare, senseless, and each additional component effectively lowers internal structure by almost 20% (multiplicative).

how or where does it say that each additional component lowers internal structure? Not saying you are lying... Just would like to see info on that? I would not think adding something to a mechs internals would gib it less internals?

[The Boz]

It doesn't literally lower internal structure, but damage taken to internal structure that has a component deals damage to both the internal structure and the component on a crit, and 15% damage taken by the component is then dealt back to the internal structure if the component is taken out by the shot.
However, I was off with the 20% comment, because I forgot about the crit chance affecting the component damage. It's a more involved calculation...

[Joe Mallad]

The Boz, on 11 November 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

It doesn't literally lower internal structure, but damage taken to internal structure that has a component deals damage to both the internal structure and the component on a crit, and 15% damage taken by the component is then dealt back to the internal structure if the component is taken out by the shot.
However, I was off with the 20% comment, because I forgot about the crit chance affecting the component damage. It's a more involved calculation...

oh ok.

[Mcgral18]

The Boz, on 11 November 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

44, because the mechanism is convoluted beyond compare, senseless, and each additional component effectively lowers internal structure by almost 20% (multiplicative).

Not quite. Damage is dealt normally, then 15% of the crit damage (for FLD weapons, that's full damage whenever it crits) is transferred to the IS. So, the maximum damage an AC20 could deal to internal structure is 29; 3 damage per crit.

Yoseful Mallad, on 11 November 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

ok, I got you. Them I apologize for my comment earlier. I didn't intend to come off as "I knew what I was talking about" but more or less how I understood it. Which now I understand to be wrong. I did not know that anything besides MGs and flamers did or could do crits.

On a side note, I hit a wolverine with 2 AC-20 rounds to his LT a few days ago and I guess I must have did some kind of Crit. Or he was already extremely weak on that side and I had a lot of that 40 damage transfer over to the center torso for a crit or something?

The Wolverine was actually knocked off his feet and I killed it. That's the first time I have even see a mech get knocked off its feet. Have you seen anything like that happen? Maybe a glitch?

All weapons have a 42% crit chance. MGs are at 52% and Flamer+LBx are at 67% chance.

Damage transfer is always done, but at a 50% damage ratio from component to component. Crit damage would probably do the same, but I'm not too sure.

As for jumping and rolling and breakdancing, that is a glitch that mechs occasionally do. They can be pretty funny.

[The Boz]

I'm adding to the 15 + 11 the 18 it dealt to take out the AC20, because that still counts as damage in my book.

[ZuxXes Marsh]

Sweet to see how many wants to help with that problem
Well first i gotta say that i know how to move n twist my mechs ^^ its not the problem @ all.
On pen n paper things work a bit different. You play ure role like, when u got enough points u move u rotate u shoot and also u twist to safe the importants parts of your mech.
But in realtime things work a bit different, and thats the thing i mean.
So back to be a assault mech. Its not clever to assault with that kind of build cause even u twist away from the target u shooted @ there will always be another mech or 2 or even more,and they know wich parts are important and straight try to take them out. They also will suceed for sure. Cause u play in "realtime" and its not that it would be on pen n paper where ure enemy buddys gotta wait for there turns.
So u see things are totaly different from pen n paper to realtime.
How shall we fix that ?
Like i sayed ^^ maybe a new quirk for the hipspot to make the ac´s live longer. Cause otherway i cannot play my role as a atlas assault mech.
Well i could stay behind all other mechs n could play as a sniper but would that be assault? hmmm...
U feel me? i hope so.
I love playin a atlas but on mwo its most frustrating, also i buyed the boars head wich makes it more sad ^^
Sure i could put the atlas to a lrm boat, but thats not the role of it right?
I hope they give them more power back, cause clan mechs have a much wider choice to make "op" ac builds.
The atlas feels way to weak at moment in each kinda way.
Give us a better battletech feeling QQ even its hard to put fasa´s battletech rules true a realtime game.

Thanks and also sorry for my bad english

[KamikazeRat]

KamikazeRat, on 11 November 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/

*cough**cough**cough*

(its a guide to how crits work)

[The Strange]

Ok, so the point of this topic is to say that even though an Atlas has one of the highest armor values in the game, it should get a quirk to make sure you can't take one of it's larger weapon systems out? WTF? Protect your torso better. Use C.A.S.E. But don't come to the forums and try to argue that your "squishy Atlas" needs a buff to it's AC20 so that people can't strip it off you.

People know where you keep that AC, and they take it from you on purpose. That's good game play. Why don't we make it so no weapon can be destroyed independent of it's Mech location? Wouldn't that be fun and fair? Puleese...

[TwentyOne]

I love my atlases, but its silly how unfair the dire wolf is when you are in an atlas.

[Alistair Winter]

I think this thread was supposed to be about TTK and making mech combat more of a lengthy, strategical ordeal, rather than a quick and brutal two-minute 12-0 roflstomp. He's complaining about the fact that the biggest mech in the game is taken down rather quickly.

I don't think he's looking for advice on how to torso twist.

[Joe Mallad]

As much as I love killing someone quickly, I do have to agree that even with double armor and so on, mechs really do still die rather quickly. I love how when we first started in closed beta, people complained that mechs dies to fast, to easy. So they went and doubled the armor so mechs would last a bit longer. Well they threw that out the window when they gave weapons the ability to fire faster more ammo per ton and to be able to do more damage than they started out with. So what was the reason for doubling armor again?

We are killing each other just as fast now if not faster even with double armor, than we did when armor was not doubled or weapons not turned into super damage dealers.

[Christof Romulus]

The Boz, on 11 November 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

What if the enemy is also twist'n'alpha?

I'm glad you asked that, The Boz!

While you will rarely end up in a dueling situation in Mechwarrior Online, there is a chance that it will happen. I would love to say that there is one strategy to use against another "twist'n'alpha" build, the fact of the matter is it varies from mech-to-mech.

If you're squaring off against an opposing atlas, it highly depends: The S brings a potentially heavier, if not less accurate, punch in its left torso, while the D likely will likely be bringing larger energy weapons to compensate for lack of missile hardpoints, or even the ac 10/5 combination listed above to provide the same alpha as a gauss, but faster re-fire.

Likely, if you end up in this duel scenario, you need to rapidly determine what type of mech you're against, and it's potential alpha, and how pinpoint that alpha is. This will allow you to measure whether or not you can be the aggressor or not. If your alpha is MORE precise, then you can be the agressor - twisting less, and landing shots generally in the center torso.

If your alpha is less accurate, you're going to want to seek intervening terrain, and your twisting becomes even more important, because if you can break apart the accuracy of your opponent it removes their advantage.

Ultimately, however, the correct answer is to be running with your team - absorbing an alpha, then taking to cover. A light or medium or even heavy re-engaging the enemy mech will be enough for them to change targets - and in that instant you break cover and return to the fray - setting you at least one alpha up on the enemy mech, which is typically enough to secure a victory.

Oh, and as a PSA, Direwolves can't torso twist - so if you end up caught out in their line of fire in an Atlas, if your weapons are "in range" you should twist-shoot their CT only. Though you MAY be able to down the Dire, you won't be in any condition afterwards.

[ZuxXes Marsh]

Alistair Winter, on 11 November 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

I think this thread was supposed to be about TTK and making mech combat more of a lengthy, strategical ordeal, rather than a quick and brutal two-minute 12-0 roflstomp. He's complaining about the fact that the biggest mech in the game is taken down rather quickly.

I don't think he's looking for advice on how to torso twist.

Exactly ! well i know all this guides, also rules n such...i started playin battletech in the 80s and i am familiar with battletech crit n hits ^^
Also i never asked for more armor...
The thing is that the pen n paper rules are not working on realtime games or its hard to put them on it.
So how to balance that the right way is the question?
I know its hard and it brake the normal rule system but than in that case, i also dont need to play a atlas when all other mech builds are more stronger, even the lights.
Takin out a atlas would never be so easy on pen n paper like it is on "realtime" *how many times i gotta say that?*
Thats is one thing why the devs gave us our quirks to make the game like Alistair sayed "longer and strategical".
Also its not the first mechwarrior PC game. All other parts worked well also *if u had the right people for it for sure*
Even MechwarriorLivingLegends found a way to make the wars more interesting.
The Fasa Book rules cannot work on realtime thats it. So theres only the thing to fix that with quirks or build a hole new way to play mechwarrior on realtime.
The strong machines loosing there role power and fear.
By the way ^^ i can remember the early beta´s where the dev´s stayed closer to the mw rules and i could cockpitshoot mechs like i would headshoot people on a shooter(4-6kills in just a few minutes). That problem whas getting fixed also and now this days its not that easy to do that, or nearly imposible to.
Well.... a assault shall stay as a assault, and it shall not go down ina roflstomp
Alistair Winter i see u get what i mean

[Sagamore]

The solution to your problem is to run the AS7-S. I have enemies targeting the left torso (missile side) more often than the AC torso now.

[ZuxXes Marsh]

Sagamore, on 11 November 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

The solution to your problem is to run the AS7-S. I have enemies targeting the left torso (missile side) more often than the AC torso now.

I buyed the as7-bh(2x3 medpulse+1 ac10) long ago.
I just learned not to buy mechs with mc anymore, and also wait for mw5 or a more balanced mwo. Even it means im 80j. old when that happens ^^

[Y E O N N E]

The Boz, on 11 November 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

What if the enemy is also twist'n'alpha?

Then you hose him.

If two enemies happen upon each other and then both try to do the alpha-then-twist thing, the guy who fired first will nearly always win. If the guy who got shot first is smart enough to just start wailing on his attacker when he twists away, then he stands a good chance of killing his foe and surviving. Of course, said attacker could also be smart enough to reply with a face-tank of his own, which he would win because the defender already got alpha'd. When this happens, the defender should begin twisting again.

Keep in mind, the defender should be moving toward a more advantageous position the whole time, preferably in near friendlies.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 11 November 2014 - 07:56 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 11 November 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

Then you hose him.

If two enemies happen upon each other and then both try to do the alpha-then-twist thing, the guy who fired first will nearly always win. If the guy who got shot first is smart enough to just start wailing on his attacker when he twists away, then he stands a good chance of killing his foe and surviving. Of course, said attacker could also be smart enough to reply with a face-tank of his own, which he would win because the defender already got alpha'd. When this happens, the defender should begin twisting again.

Keep in mind, the defender should be moving toward a more advantageous position the whole time, preferably in near friendlies.

Other options include trying to fake the other into facing you with a partial weapon group (rather than everything) to get a solid hit in.

Another is just go for a leg, or both. He can't twist both away from you, and you should be able to get around to the second one, after the first is gone.

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 11 November 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Other options include trying to fake the other into facing you with a partial weapon group (rather than everything) to get a solid hit in.

Another is just go for a leg, or both. He can't twist both away from you, and you should be able to get around to the second one, after the first is gone.

First part falls under moving to a more advantageous position

Second part I don't generally recommend. Legging is good, taking guns away is better; chances are the target has one side torso it can't twist all the way out of your range. Even if the target is doing the twist-n-fire, you blow away a side torso and then you have a safe-zone around the enemy 'Mech that includes all of behind and most of the side you blew away.

If I'm going to go for a leg, it's because it's already weak or the target is a light 'Mech.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

all the atlas's suffer from "barn yard door" syndrome. only thing that can be done is.

1 dont be the first in, you arent that tanky to take abuse like that.

2 torso twist for effect and be aware of the people shooting at you

3 be the anchor of your team not the front line IE you are providing support fire to anyone engaged but try not to get caught in a 1v1 against anything but another atlas.

4 get good and hitting those lights with an ac20 i cant tell you how good it is at simply snuffing pesky lights out. get good at hitting a lights legs and your team will murder him very shortly after you pop his leg.

5 its bit slow and hot not much can be done other then learning to adapt to its style of play.

Edited by Mellifluer, 12 November 2014 - 01:14 AM.

[speleomaniac]

I don't use Ac20 anymore in my Boar Head, with the LRM rains it is very difficult to go into brawling range with Atlas, before I can go into AC20 range it is most of the time destroyed, for that reason I stick to 6 LL and I am happy with the result.

When I get the D-DC I will give another chance to AC/20 builds.