69 replies to this topic

[JohnnyWayne]

Summer, on 11 November 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

I wouldn't mind if they brought the damage up to 1.5 or even more, but the cooldown needs to be 3 times what it is. Doing those two thing together would stop the spam and actually give a reason to bring a single LRM15 or even maybe just 1 LRM5. Right now to make LRMs even viable they have to be boated. LRMs should be a rarely fired high damage/armor stripping weapon. If you are out and get hit by 1 volley you should feel it, but getting slammed by low damage, non stop, raining spam is not fun for anyone.

Wait, so less weight, less spread and shorter cooldown is no reason? Why is everyone running lrm10/5s then?

God damn it, just make LRM skill based....

They should be no such thing that flys over cover and split your mech in half as you discribe it.

Monkey Lover, on 11 November 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

Lrms take a lot more skill then an er laser camper with zoom module.

Lrm pilot has to to get out front find locks HOLD the locks taking fire the whole time. Everyone else pops out fires and jumps back.

Hold your cursor of a mech for 1/10 of a second pressing a mouse button isnt "skill"

Usually an LRMer stands in the back and fires when someone else spots for them. Or they die by lights because they were left behind. Or they are the last one on the team. In the end they expect others to win their matches for them. Skill? All you do is playing train driver. Go faster or slower.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 11 November 2014 - 02:55 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Walluh, on 11 November 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

Any LRM boat that's in the front lines is a really stupid LRM boat.

Thats the problem right there! you have to BOAT lrms to get any damage why did they give all the medium and even heavy mechs lrms quirks when they are not boats.

[Apnu]

Monkey Lover, on 11 November 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

My guess is the 30lrms wasnt the "fine" it was the 4 ppc or 4 xl largers you had it on that was the "fine" part.

Try doing that on kt18 with 2 medium lasers haha

Actually it's got 2 large lasers, I use them as backup weapons.

My Treb 5N also has LRM30, 3 MLs and TAG. It's in a happy place too. I have a 3.1 KDR on it right now.

[JohnnyWayne]

Boating is everywhere, noone takes LRM as a backup weapon because its too specialized. And you can do better with other weapons if you are better, because these are skillbased.

[Novakaine]

Green Mamba, on 11 November 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

I guess if they keep nerfing Lurms,players will have to switch over to the Weapons that actually require Skill to use

Noob cannon driver huh?

[Summer]

JohnnyWayne, on 11 November 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

Wait, so less weight, less spread and shorter cooldown is no reason? Why is everyone running lrm10/5s then?

Look at it this way. If you are going to spend the weight on a single LRM 10 with ammo to do 10 damage you are better off with lasers or an AC10. If LRMs were treated as the weapon they should be, they would do far more damage and fire less often. No one who actually wants to be efficient on the battlefield is going to bring a single LRM10 as they stand right now.

Even if you made them skill based, line of sight weapons, a single LRM 5 or 10 is still not worth bringing based on the damage they currently do. Increase damage, increase cooldown to get rid of spam and make narc less of a death sentence, and you've fixed the bulk of the problem.

[Wintersdark]

It's always been, and remains, the problem with LRM's: They're only really effective and worth the tonnage in two situations:

1) In a premade group with known-good spotters who can and will hold locks reliably
2) At low to average skill ranges.

Sadly, once you're getting to higher skill levels in the solo queue, LRM's become largely worthless relative to their tonnage/size. The reality is that there's so many counters to them (and effectively no counters to other weapons), while they do mediocre damage at best and that damage is spread randomly... All the while requiring either direct fire (thus making them effectively poor "regular" weapons) or a very high skill level to use them effectively. This, because unless you're fighting morons, you'll never get more than one or two hits against a target, as he'll utilize one of the oodles of LRM defensive measures.

The problem, then, is that they get balanced by damage and base weapon stats. This doesn't work. It makes them - already poor weapons at best at anything above average skill - really crappy. However, improving their damage to the point where they become usable at the higher end results in them being grossly overpowered for average players.


The only solution to this problem is addressing indirect fire, IMHO. Have LRM's do significant damage and track well when players have LOS or a spotter with an active TAG or NARC, but have fully indirect fire have a substantially larger spread and poorer tracking. Still good damage, but inefficient damage - spread around, inaccurate if the target is moving fast.

[MountainCopper]

Walluh, on 11 November 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

Any LRM boat that's in the front lines is a really stupid LRM boat.

Weird. And here I thought that TAG, Active Probe and Artemis would require line of sight...

Monkey Lover, on 11 November 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Thats the problem right there! you have to BOAT lrms to get any damage why did they give all the medium and even heavy mechs lrms quirks when they are not boats.

Depends on your definition, I guess. I would declare a Kintaro with 5 LRM5s or 2 LRM10s as an LRM-boat, for instance. Any loadout having a good portion, or the majority of its free tonnage dedicated to a certain weapon type.

I counted no less than 6 Assault variants getting benefits for LRM-weaponry between Awesomes, Battlemasters and Stalkers. Not enough?
Not that heavier Mechs like Assaults really need any, mind you. And it's not like that the absence of these quirks means that LRMs cannot be used on that Mech and variant.

Edited by GoldenFleece, 11 November 2014 - 03:48 PM.

[Gauvan]

I have minor issues with LRMs, well issues with map design really, but they seem to be in a reasonably good place now in the solo queue (which is all I can comment on). Now I occasionally get put in a match where LRMs are over represented but that’s just player choice and a bad die roll by the MM.

I’m going to guess that some of the time this is also due to getting matched with some newer players--I own LRM mechs, I play LRM mechs and I can say LRMs can seem like an easy button really early on but with a little practice they are far less effective at damaging and killing the enemy than a direct-fire weapon. The exception is if you treat them like a direct-fire weapon, with Artemis and Tag (the person who opens with “locks plz” probably has neither). Direct fire is also less situational, that is, it’s not as map-dependant on success as LRMs.

Now I won’t say they are a bad weapon, they just don’t always get used in the best way. LRMs are good for tagging folks for the assist--since AMS hasn’t really caught on in solo you can usually hit about anyone with a smaller LRM launcher. I actually like having an extra small launcher on larger mechs for this purpose.

I also think LRMs are a good fit on smaller mechs and am glad to see quirks for this purpose. Small mechs can position themselves to make effective use of indirect fire. Except in a couple of cases where you are stuck with them (like the Warhawk), I don’t think boating on larger mechs does the team as much good as other builds would using the same chassis.

Now, to the OP’s point, one of the awesome things about LRMs is there are a ton of ways to overcome a slight reduction in damage per projectile: Tag, Artemis, a larger launcher, even Narc can make LRMs more effective at a very reasonable weight cost (well, except Narc).

[BeezleBug]

it is so easy to make a good amount of dmg with LRM´s. If you run a LRM boat in a pug match it is your own fault, LRM´s in premade is rly strong a make a lot of dmg. to go even higher with the lrm dmg, scouting is off and it would a rly lame lrm fight, no fun @ all. LRM boat is a pretty specialized mech so there must a disadvantage on the other side. With a good scout you can rip mechs apart in seconds without even seeing them. With the BAP push the LRM got even better, thats why they "nerved" the dmg.

sry if you make no dmg, thats your play, nothing else.

btw the lock time should be much higher if you dont have line of sight, it is way to easy the shoot Mechs with lrm without even seeing them.

Edited by BeezleBug, 11 November 2014 - 03:56 PM.

[InspectorG]

Walluh, on 11 November 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

Any LRM boat that's in the front lines is a really stupid LRM boat.

Except pop-LuRMs Slummoner...good times there!

I HATE using LuRMs but it works for the Slummoner, mobile enough not to stay in the way.

[InspectorG]

JohnnyWayne, on 11 November 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

Boating is everywhere, noone takes LRM as a backup weapon because its too specialized. And you can do better with other weapons if you are better, because these are skillbased.

Agreed.

But if you have tonnage to spare, a LRM5 can farm some assists and pressure some noobs.

[kf envy]

i have to say changing out the srm4 and srm6 to 2 LRM5s on my hunchback-4sp has really payed off. i have never before done over 300 damage an after my 1st round with the lrm5s i ended that round with an epic 747 points of damage even at an loss i got over 200k cbills. an for any lights that show up i have 5 Ml with there name on it. an im still able to do CQB as well as spam LRMs all day.


over all i have to say LRMs our in an good spot an should stay ware there at for at least the next 20 years

Edited by kf envy, 11 November 2014 - 04:26 PM.

[TwentyOne]

Monkey Lover, on 11 November 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

They're such junk you can't kill anything with them without half you team raining lrms down on 1 mech.


Just remove targeting without los or something. Half my mechs have lrms quirks and they're useless junk,

I would be fine if LRMS did 5 damage each if you remove the cheat indirect fire from all team members.

[Telmasa]

Much as I love my Catapult, no, LRMs really do not need a damage un-nerf/buff. Plenty effective as-is, just get used to getting direct line of sight as much as possible (at least, if you use artemis...you should be).

Edited by Telmasa, 11 November 2014 - 05:00 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Mighty LURMs won WWII - should not do in MW too?

[Summer]

Thorqemada, on 11 November 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

Mighty LURMs won WWII - should not do in MW too?

Yes. They should do a ton of damage and take ages (not 3 seconds) to reload, just like in WWII.

[TwentyOne]

Thorqemada, on 11 November 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

Mighty LURMs won WWII - should not do in MW too?

Red army Orchestra is a 10/10 ensemble

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

It would be a real weapon if they tightened the groups and gave the damage back. As it is this is the fourth nerf in 6 months (damage down, splash removed, ghost heat linking, and damage reduced again).

And just like every other nerf It wasn't even out and they screamed nerf it more. Several people openly say remove them from the game cause it so bothers their play style.

Put them back where they were 6 months ago. Was working fine then would still be fine now.

But no, I am sure there is another nerf coming. After all lurms are so very OP. or is that noob easy loser mode? Wonder which it is, the ones who want it gone say it's both...

[TwentyOne]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 11 November 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

It would be a real weapon if they tightened the groups and gave the damage back. As it is this is the fourth nerf in 6 months (damage down, splash removed, ghost heat linking, and damage reduced again).

And just like every other nerf It wasn't even out and they screamed nerf it more. Several people openly say remove them from the game cause it so bothers their play style.

Put them back where they were 6 months ago. Was working fine then would still be fine now.

But no, I am sure there is another nerf coming. After all lurms are so very OP. or is that noob easy loser mode? Wonder which it is, the ones who want it gone say it's both...

Many people think they are in general, an anti fun weapon system.
I think if they where LOS only and heavily buffed in damage, they would be more reasonable.