22 replies to this topic

[Dino Banino]

I just found out about this OmniMech called the Stormcrow. It has 364 armor - the same as the Summoner; runs with top speeds of 97km/h - FASTER than the Summoner; and has 2 ER-Large Lasers supported by 3 ER-Medium Lasers - which is one more ER-MED Laser than the Summoner-D's armament.

I've been using the Summoner this whole time, and now I'm at this face-palm moment in my MWO career/life/phase. Is there something the Summoner has that I'm missing, or should I just run the Stormcrow instead because more weapons, faster speed, AND the same armor means better, right?

Y'know, Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger?

Less is more?

Edited by Archangel Dino, 08 November 2014 - 08:58 AM.

[Wintersdark]

The Summoner can absolutely have more armor than the Stormcrow. Max armor is determined by tonnage; the Summoner is a much larger mech.

With that said, the Stormcrow is one of the best mechs in the game right now, and the Summoner is a fairly mediocre one. Not that you can't be very successful in a Summoner mind you; it's just got some limitations - mostly few hardpoints and 5 tons invested in Jump Jets (unless you want that, then that's not a problem).

What mechs come with stock is largely irrelevant

[Pocket_Aces]

^Ninja'd Jump jets

Edited by MatesRates, 08 November 2014 - 09:27 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Basically, you always want to max armor on every mech you own, as the default amounts of armor are often really wonky and wierdly low.

[TheSilken]

It's true that the Stormcrow is better than the Suckoner but when the Clan quirks come out I doubt that will be the case. For now running a Stormcrow instead would be a better choice but hold on to the Summoner as it should get some fairly nice buffs next patch.

[GonaDie]

Well... Summoner has JJs, more armour and good hitboxes.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

That.. and the Thor just looks better to me.

GonaDie, on 08 November 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

Well... Summoner has JJs, more armour and good hitboxes.

[Redshift2k5]

The stock Summoner has much less than it's maximum armor; when maxed it will be much higher than the Stormcrow.

The main difference is the Jump Jets.

Overall the Stormcrow is typically seen as a better mech, faster and with more hardpoints, but there will always be things the Summoner can do that the Stormcrow can't, such as jumping to reach new sniper vantage points or jump-brawling to jump over an enemy.

[Joanna Conners]

I love both mechs and I'm not in the camp that thinks the Summoner sucks or is useless. I think it's an excellent mech and I can consistently post good numbers in it. It really comes down to preference and piloting style, IMO.

[Hex Pallett]

All the above posts did not mention that when you max armor on a Summoner, your left tonnage was almost the same as a Crow, if not less, thanks to its standard structure.

So there's really just one question: do you want speed, or do you want armor+JJ?

[Bloodweaver]

GonaDie, on 08 November 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

Well... Summoner has JJs, more armour and good hitboxes.

Not good hitboxes. Average hitboxes. The Stormcrow, on the other hand, has AMAZING hitboxes. And an exaggerated gait which spreads weapon fire all over those hitboxes, making them even more effective. Even though the Summoner can carry more armor, the Stormcrow's armor is amplified by its hitboxes and gait. That, combined with the advantages listed in the OP, make it a vastly superior 'mech. It's actually a solid contender for "best Clan 'mech."

Summoner has jump jets. That's its only superiority at the moment. That being said, I have a great match almost every time I run the Summoner Prime trial 'mech, which is stock. Better than the matches I get in any of the other trial 'mechs, including the Dire Wolf. So don't knock it just because it seems lackluster.

[InspectorG]

I like Slummoners but i cant call them powerfull.

They are mobile

Yet to find a build i truly like but LRM15,15,10+ 2erML, TC1, AP, ammo.
Jump LuRMer. You could dual AMS, if you felt the need.

ERPPC+Gauss for the poptarts out there.

4ERLL...not bad.

4ERML and a ballistic...not my cup of tea.

5 SRM6(or 4) for face blasting goodness.

Stormcrow

Well i have one and they seem to tank way more than they should. Fast and mobile.
Would be OP if they had jj.

Whats not to like about the Crow? Other than no jj?

[Lily from animove]

InspectorG, on 08 November 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

Whats not to like about the Crow? Other than no jj?

unbeliveable extremely uncomparable and unchallanged uglyness.

Edited by Lily from animove, 08 November 2014 - 04:05 PM.

[Saiyu Song]

Lily from animove, on 08 November 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

unbeliveable extremely uncomparable and unchallanged uglyness.

This.

[Macksheen]

I love my summoners, but I'd be doing you as disservice if I didn't chime in and she that for nearly every purpose the SCR is a better option.

[Konril]

Stripped of everything that can be stripped, a Stormcrow is going to have 32.5 tons available and the Summoner 32.0 tons. Stormcrows can carry up to 9.64 tons of armor at most and Summoners 11.31 tons. So with max armor, the Stormcrow has 22.86 left and the Summoner 20.69. It's common practice to shave some extra points for even tonnage, so consider the Stormcrow to have 23 tons available and the Summoner 21 tons.

However, the reason the Summoner has so little available for a 70 ton mech is because of permanently mounted equipment. There are 4 heat sinks in the engine and 5 jump jets that cannot be removed. The extra heat sinks in the engine work to keep the mech cool. The jump jets are a huge help in getting over obstacles other mechs would have to go around.

If you're going to compare the SMN-D to the SCR-Prime then yes, the Stormcrow is faster and has an extra medium laser. However, the Summoner has a targeting computer to make the lasers it does have better, machine guns to help in close-combat brawls, and twin AMS systems to counter LRM strikes. So is the Stormcrow actually better?

I currently have one of my favorite Summoners outfitted as a missile boat. (SMN-B) To be honest, I can easily do the same thing with a Stormcrow if I wanted to, and add a TAG to the mix. (SCR-D) However, that is not just at the cost of the jump jets, but also heat efficiency. My Summoner handles hotter environments (Caustic Valley, Mordor Terra Therma) a lot better than the Stormcrow can. The extra heat sinks do help.

But to be honest, I don't see the Summoner being anywhere close to a top-tier mech anytime soon. The real reason I pilot one is because it was available for C-bills before the Stormcrow was. Also, there have just been too many people dropping with medium mechs compared to other weight classes. So until things start calming down (and I build up a stash of C-bills again), I don't expect to be getting my Stormcrows anytime soon.

[dragnier1]

Wintersdark, on 08 November 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

Basically, you always want to max armor on every mech you own, as the default amounts of armor are often really wonky and wierdly low.

It wouldn't be so if weapons didn't reload that quickly. Then again, it would be boring waiting 5-10 secs for our weapons to reload.

[Nightmare1]

Until PGI buffs the Summoner, it's something of a useless Mech outside of a very narrow operational window.

Sadly, it was one of the Mechs with the most potential but worst implemented of the entire Wave I pack, in my opinion.

[Mad Ox]

Well Jump Jets alone make Summoner a much more flexible mech. Its main achilles heel though is such limited Weapon Points at most 6 is annoying for a heavy mech while TW hits like 12. But not the end of the world.

Hard to equate how much jump jets really come into play. Obviously if your never using them well go with Stormcrow as they are 5 tons of wasted space on a Summoner. Used correctly oh gee you jump up and behind enemy team causing utter chaos as you rip into there lightly armored rear. Your cornered they coming for ya jump jet over and around and flip the situation back on them. Jump jets add levels of potential a Stormcrow jsut wont ever see... not to mention at 70 tons Summoner can equip more armor then SC ever could.

I first started with Stormcrow enjoyed leveling it immensely. But too often I would hit situation where dang wish I had a Jump Jet. Started on summoner was hell to begin with but after alot of playing with variants settled into what I enjoyed and by the time I was mastered Summoner became an incredible awesome mech taking poundings like I could not believe and unleashing brutal beatings.

Summoner became a real treat after I started putting on appropriate Modules to get the most out of its weapon selections... Such as decreased Cooldown for ERPPC and LBX10 on prime, SSRM4 Cooldown and range on D version. Once I did that and had at least basic skills researched Summoner came into its own.

Yes Stormcrow is a very good mech one of the best mediums without a doubt. Summoner though is a definite diamond in the rough work with it and it will shine especially after JJ got tweaked on it.

Edited by Mad Ox, 13 November 2014 - 08:12 AM.

[Shlkt]

Besides the aforementioned drawbacks, the other problem with the Summoner is that it cannot use endo steel. This upgrade gives you extra tonnage to play with at the expense of critical slots.

The consequence of lacking this upgrade is that almost every Summoner build wastes a bunch of slots. Essentially you're forced into a position of wasting space.

The only build I've come up with that actually uses [most] of those slots is: 4 C-MED PULSE LASER + 27 double heatsinks (14 from the engine) [note: this is not a good build]. Almost any other build will have at least 7 slots unused, which means you would have been better off with the endo steel upgrade.

Edited by Shlkt, 13 November 2014 - 10:53 AM.