57 replies to this topic

[Abivard]

DasaDevil, on 14 November 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

i wonder how many people in this thread have radar dep

Well, the ones that QQ about LRM's most likely do not have it.
They probably don't mount AMS either.

[STEF_]

Koniving, on 14 November 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

I honestly find the indirect fire has little to no meaning.

It's the firing rate and "lock once and let 'er rip" mentality.

These missile launchers are spewing missiles faster than a single MG can shoot. This is YANKING an explosive warhead from its storage bin, cramming it through the inner workings of a mech, and then JABBING it into a launcher to fire. Aren't these things volatile? Doesn't just one hit cause loads of them to explode?

Spoiler

*** LRM 10 Ammo EXPLODES! 110 DAMAGE! ***
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 110 damage to LT.
SECTION DESTROYED,
LIMB BLOWN OFF Left Arm blown off.
remaining 89 damage prevented by CASE.
Critical hit on LT. Roll is 6; no effect.

Why are they so damn fast? Why are they goddamn Gatling Guns?

With an armor comparison, 1 damage in MWO = 0.5 damage in BT.

You can fire 3 times in a little less than 10 seconds from an LRM-20.
1 + 1 + 1 = 3 in MWO, but in BT that's 1.5 per missile, so you're getting the damage of 1 LRM-20 + 1 LRM-10 of Battletech quality at the combination of 3x the ammunition required to do it in MWO. Ever wonder why 180 missiles here doesn't last as long as 120 missiles in BT? The firing rate and damage ratios.

Then you have 3x the chance to miss.

Remember that if 1 damage in MWO = 0.5 damage in BT... then 2 damage in MWO = 1 damage in BT.
This means 1 missile will deal 2 damage in MWO, which is the damage of BT (1 damage to 1 armor, 2 damage to 2 armor).
We still have that firing rate, which we can reduce now.

If we change the firing rate to twice in 10 seconds (0 seconds, 5 seconds, repeat), you now can deal 2 damage per missile, twice in 10 seconds. Compared to Battletech, that's twice as much (versus our current 0.5 or half as much). So even firing twice in 10 seconds is pretty excessive, but imagine how much easier it would be on ammo tonnage. Now also imagine how much easier it would be once repair and rearm returns? After all you're getting more than double the effectiveness for 2/3rds the ammo... which is basically a flat literal "1 to 1" ratio of effectiveness to BT's LRMs, assuming you can fire twice in 10 seconds in BT.

Just a thought. (Of course SRMs would need equal treatment, 4 damage per missile and a firing rate reduction).

While your examine is always interesting, we must admit that lrm is just terribad in mwo.
In BT we can achieve lock, direct or indirect fire is possible, and with that we are sure to hit the enemy.
In MWO, it's nearly impossible to hit a decent/normal player with lrm, despite lock achieved
It's simply too easy dodging a LRM salvo or chain; find a position (aka " a position where you can fire and cover"), and then cover/radar depr, with those SLOW missiles coming ....I wonder why there are so many people complaining about lrm boat.
I would like to see here a little more BT rules applied:
- difference between direct/indirect lrm possibility to hit (indirect fire should be more difficult)
- once lock achieved, lrm fire, and the salvo missiles should have more speed to hit the enemy. Or, like in BT, once lock achieved, sure damage.
-once the salvo is fired, lock must be lost (in BT every turn we must check lock)

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 15 November 2014 - 12:18 AM.

[Kirkland Langue]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

You weren't there. I WAS. And I saw only few flights of ineffective LRMs, while my lance suppressed the enemy team, permanently.

That's exactly correct: I wasn't there. Nobody was there except the handful of people in the game. Which means that in order to make a point, you would need to provide more evidence than a simple screenshot of the end scores.

But using "I was there" as evidence is flawed too. You only saw what you saw - when one is talking about ancillary effects, seeing the game from the enemies' points of view would actually be of more use.

Even then though, I have a strong suspicion that your lance would have lost that game if it were the 4 of you vs the 12 enemies. It doesn't matter how "ineffective" the guy next to you is - just having him there is going to impact enemy behavior.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

SteelKiller, on 14 November 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

I don't know about the tourney but I've hardly seen any LRMs in the solo queue over the past few days.

In the tourney, everyone uses lrms because assists are countrd higher than killd.

[El Bandito]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 15 November 2014 - 03:22 AM, said:

In the tourney, everyone uses lrms because assists are countrd higher than killd.

Except the majority are not using LRMs.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 November 2014 - 05:43 AM.

[El Bandito]

Koniving, on 14 November 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

These missile launchers are spewing missiles faster than a single MG can shoot. This is YANKING an explosive warhead from its storage bin, cramming it through the inner workings of a mech, and then JABBING it into a launcher to fire. Aren't these things volatile? Doesn't just one hit cause loads of them to explode?

This is why I advocated sized hardpoints since 2012. Can't cram LRM20 in a LRM5 slot. And the number of LRM mechs will decrease.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 November 2014 - 06:13 AM.

[TexAce]

make them only work when someone has

1) LOS
or
2) Narc

No other indirect lock at all.

Then:

1) Remove radar derp from the game.
2) Make the damage 1.5 per missile or even 2.

Result:

- Skill needed
- When skill = deadly

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

El Bandito, on 15 November 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

Except the majority are not using LRMs.

Interesting, the games Ive been in Ive seen entire teams using lrms. This "majority" is nonexistant in my elo

El Bandito, on 15 November 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

This is why I advocated sized hardpoints since 2012. Can't cram LRM20 in a LRM5 slot. And the number of LRM mechs will decrease.

Still does nothing for the 6 lrm 5 A-1 which does exactly what he's saying especially with the cooldown modules

TexAss, on 15 November 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

make them only work when someone has

1) LOS
or
2) Narc

No other indirect lock at all.

Except they advertised indirect fire as a key feature of the game.

More misleading advertising is not what we need

[El Bandito]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 15 November 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

Still does nothing for the 6 lrm 5 A-1 which does exactly what he's saying especially with the cooldown modules

If people are scared of the weaksauce A1, I don't know what to tell ya. LRM A1 has no back-up weapons, and its volleys can be easily shut down by just 2 AMS.

Since it is just one problematic mech, PGI can simply slap negative cooldown nerf on it and call it a day. Much easier to do than convoluted blanket nerf such as Ghost Heat.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 November 2014 - 04:37 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

El Bandito, on 15 November 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

If people are scared of the weaksauce A1, I don't know what to tell ya. LRM A1 has no back-up weapons, and its volleys can be easily shut down by just 2 AMS.

Since it is just one problematic mech, PGI can simply slap negative cooldown nerf on it and call it a day. Much easier to do than convoluted blanket nerf such as Ghost Heat.

but :PGI:

I like the A-1. Its fun. No extra weapons just means you use your teammates for that. Its not as hard as ppl think

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Theres 2 more wins that you cant see

so 7/10...

Id be doing better but my best lrm is a Warhawk and I didnt wanna leave my unit just for this

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 15 November 2014 - 05:13 PM.

[Rando Slim]

The nerf didn't do anything, I run AMS and radar derp. If you get Caustic or Alpine your still boned. Don't even give me any guff. If you are in too slow of a mech, or if the other team HAS LRM BOATS AT DIFFERENT ANGLES (a point that never gets brought up up in the se threads) then your screwed. Yes missiles can be dodged, but something needs to be done about the "boating" aspect of them.
You shouldn't be able to spew 30-60 damage at me every 4 seconds without having to expose yourself, when I have to risk charging across the map and my team-mates might not follow in the solo queue. Sorry.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 15 November 2014 - 05:10 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Scrotacus 42, on 15 November 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

The nerf didn't do anything, I run AMS and radar derp. If you get Caustic or Alpine your still boned. Don't even give me any guff. If you are in too slow of a mech, or if the other team HAS LRM BOATS AT DIFFERENT ANGLES

again... I MAINLY play Atlases and Dire Wolves and I dont mount AMS.

I dont whine about lrms either

[Trooper60709]

Depends on a lot of things. Mainly targeting, missile type, how many AMS systems your team has, AMS modules, how soon your team notices and destroys drones, the amount of ECM mechs on both side, and the quality of your build versus the quality of their LRM boats, etc. LRMS don't kill me personally all the time. It's just when a team's line is broken, mechs surge in and pound you while your running and making the single mechs fleeing helpless against the storm. A good lance or two closed up with some decent AMS and ECM can provide an almost full proof missile umbrella. It's just 3 or less mechs together can't really stop an LRM barrage, they just don't kill enough missiles. It requires 4 or more, and it helps to have the missiles flying after other targets, not just one.

[El Bandito]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 15 November 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

Theres 2 more wins that you cant see

so 7/10...

Id be doing better but my best lrm is a Warhawk and I didnt wanna leave my unit just for this

A1 is sooo pre-quirk. Feast upon this baby. Got 271 in one match. However, I also could have done a lot better in my Fat Whale, but I didn't want to leave my unit as well.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 November 2014 - 05:23 PM.

[Rando Slim]

Like I have said in the past, depends on the map, depends on your team, depends on whether the enemy uses NARC, or UAVs. I'm sick of people always boiling it down to one individuals choice. Its a team based game. Sometimes you just get picked out of a crowd and focused down by every missile boat on the other team just because. It isn't always a result of bad piloting. Admittedly I'm new and inexperienced with assaults, but I'm smart enough to try and find cover, but guess what? Sometimes that's not what my team is interested in doing, sometimes they want to push (which I'm all for if I see missile boats), sometimes they move too fast and leave me behind, sometimes they don't shoot down UAVs, sometimes the lights run off and do stupid **** and don't counter the other lights/spotters. Many times we don't have ECM, many times its being countered. Ok brilliant your so damn good at the game nothing is a problem for you, I dunno man have a Klondike bar or something. But theres a lot of room on the ladder between people of your skill level and people who really are bad. I hate to say it but it seems that the majority of the people on that ladder below the "elite" seem to find issues with these things and simply using yourself as an example as to why its not a problem doesn't quite cut it. Look, I've followed te advice of people and I am better at not dying to LRMs, but the real issue is just the indirect nature of it, especially if the enemy has a spotter and missile boats at different angles focusing on one target.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 15 November 2014 - 05:42 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

El Bandito, on 15 November 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

A1 is sooo pre-quirk. Feast upon this baby. Got 271 in one match. However, I also could have done a lot better in my Fat Whale, but I didn't want to leave my unit as well.

Yeah I dont have a awesome lrm boat

I think Im getting the best in an atlas - s with 4 lrm 10s

We just lost one where I did 1037 damage and got philanthropist lol

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 15 November 2014 - 07:01 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

woo a 300