262 replies to this topic

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 15 November 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

Have you actually tried lrms? Im betting not.



Dont whine till you try it.



Destructive is noobs coming here to get the devs to destroy a weapon system they know nothing about rather than using the many many in game counters available.

Mcgral18, on 15 November 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

They already are useless.

Thx for telling us your personal opinion on that. I have tested the lrms with my highlander 733p with lrm 45 + Artemis just a few hours ago in the group queu (one friend with me- so no large group)

.I usually dont do lrms. So i did 10 matches. 5 Were like 600-800 dmg rounds 4 were bad (200-300) and one was okish like neutral nor bad neither good. having 50% good match is actually pretty decent

So yeah it depends how you use the mech, which loudout, how you play as a lrm mech and so on. Pretty much depends on your team and your skills.

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 15 November 2014 - 11:59 AM.

[Sarlic]

Say hello to my favourite mech!

[STEF_]

Mcgral18, on 15 November 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

They already are useless.

So what about giving them much more speed and usefulness, and the lock mechanics closer to bt?
Indirect fire more difficult than direct los.
Lock lost after every lrm tube has fired (in bt lock check every turn)
Once lock is achived, make damage quite sure due to high speed missiles.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Sarlic, on 15 November 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

Say hello to my favourite mech!

dual ams with overlord and the ams range Module do kill how many missiles out of a volley of 60? 20-30? Still not effective enuff imo

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 15 November 2014 - 11:34 AM.

[Sarlic]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 15 November 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

dual ams with overlord and the ams range buff do kill how many missiles out of a volley of 60? 20-30? Still not effective enuff imo

Have you piloted a K before? I proof you wrong. Its all about the pilot.

Edited by Sarlic, 15 November 2014 - 11:35 AM.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Sarlic, on 15 November 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Have you piloted a K before? I proof you wrong. Its all about the pilot.

i used to owne one. Pre Ams modules.. So how many missiles do you shoot down?

And pls proof my guess wrong. Iam really excited if dual ams is really worth it

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 15 November 2014 - 11:37 AM.

[Sarlic]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 15 November 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

i used to owne one. Pre Ams modules.. So how many missiles do you shoot down?

Its not about shooting the missiles down. It's about positioning yourself and situational awareness. I have run the K before th patch / quirks as well. It's fine and it can be a good teamplayer / damage dealer.

However i can understand your frustation.

Edited by Sarlic, 15 November 2014 - 11:40 AM.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Sarlic, on 15 November 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Its not about shooting the missiles down. It's about positioning yourself and situational awareness. I have run the K before th patch / quirks as well. It's fine and it can be a good teamplayer / damage dealer.

However i can understand your frustation.

aha.. so other fast mechs are not better than the atlas k when maneuvering to a safe spot? hmmm dont get it why especially the slow atlas ?

[Abivard]

Razimir, on 15 November 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

I've noticed that LRM rain will fall during the evening hours of Europe time. Maybe it is the US citizens, who are in love with LRMs. Well... playing this tournament with Jester 2x AMS, 4 tons of ammo and AMS overload module, I have died only once to LRMs so far.

OMFG

European Prime time this player sees the most LRM's so it must be the evil Americans that are doing it.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Abivard, on 15 November 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

OMFG

European Prime time this player sees the most LRM's so it must be the evil Americans that are doing it.

No he said that on european prime time so 12-16 hour ish in the usa he sees less lrms.. Still dont agree with his experience thou

[bobF]

You can blame the baddies lobbying for Russ to keep the BAP changes, and possibly, I **** you not, expand the range. Because people have no skills and would rather use indirect fire, risk free from the comfort of total cover, they constantly complained about ECM. ECM is apparently a "Jesus Box" that prevents all damage, and magically confuses the people who play the game into thinking the opfor is "stealthed" and they suddenly can't tell where the enemy is going (because as we all know the expansive maps in this game allow for a variety of movement and tactics, amirite). PGI, in its propensity to listen to the whines of grown man-children who've never played a PvP computer game until this one, decided that one form of passive aura buff (BAP) should be better than the other (ECM) and basically gimped every mech with ECM.

The baddies and apologists will come out and cry some more about ECM, about how it's now perfectly balanced, even thought it only functionally has any benefit on large maps like mordor and alpine (for the first 5m of the match at that), and any mech can mount BAP while ECM requires a hardpoint. BALANCE.

The hilarious part is people are still saying "herpaderp, just buy AMS and bring ECM, balance" when it's just more disingenuous garbage to keep their indirect fire EZ mode, free shared targeting, and no more pesky challenge of having to aim at anything.

ECM was fine before the BAP change, teams appreciated it (especially on caustic) and spotters had to do actual work with NARC and TAG. Now, just find a hill 300m from the enemy zerg and comfortably hide behind it while the hard rain pours down, or just take your rubberbanding, lagging indestructible light mech and make a few passes during a brawl.

And now people wonder why lrming is so bad: no one wants to bring the most effective anti-lrm system there is, ECM, because it's useless. Rejoice, grown man-children, more challenge was removed from the game to accommodate your slowed mind and reflexes.

[Red Line Pilot]

Making the radar deprevation a "free" module that is the default behaviour when you don't have modules equiped might help a lot of newer players that haven't gathered 9999999 GXP yet

[Sarlic]

I agree that ECM could use prior to BAP a small adjustment (prefer a whole make over but that's not going to happen).

[Mcgral18]

bobF, on 15 November 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

You can blame the baddies lobbying for Russ to keep the BAP changes, and possibly, I **** you not, expand the range. Because people have no skills and would rather use indirect fire, risk free from the comfort of total cover, they constantly complained about ECM. ECM is apparently a "Jesus Box" that prevents all damage, and magically confuses the people who play the game into thinking the opfor is "stealthed" and they suddenly can't tell where the enemy is going (because as we all know the expansive maps in this game allow for a variety of movement and tactics, amirite). PGI, in its propensity to listen to the whines of grown man-children who've never played a PvP computer game until this one, decided that one form of passive aura buff (BAP) should be better than the other (ECM) and basically gimped every mech with ECM.

The baddies and apologists will come out and cry some more about ECM, about how it's now perfectly balanced, even thought it only functionally has any benefit on large maps like mordor and alpine (for the first 5m of the match at that), and any mech can mount BAP while ECM requires a hardpoint. BALANCE.

The hilarious part is people are still saying "herpaderp, just buy AMS and bring ECM, balance" when it's just more disingenuous garbage to keep their indirect fire EZ mode, free shared targeting, and no more pesky challenge of having to aim at anything.

ECM was fine before the BAP change, teams appreciated it (especially on caustic) and spotters had to do actual work with NARC and TAG. Now, just find a hill 300m from the enemy zerg and comfortably hide behind it while the hard rain pours down, or just take your rubberbanding, lagging indestructible light mech and make a few passes during a brawl.

And now people wonder why lrming is so bad: no one wants to bring the most effective anti-lrm system there is, ECM, because it's useless. Rejoice, grown man-children, more challenge was removed from the game to accommodate your slowed mind and reflexes.

Of course, the Jesus Box was perfectly balanced

It still isn't. Nothing has changed for the Jesus Box, except it doesn't grant immunity at 300M anymore.

[bobF]

Mcgral18, on 15 November 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Of course, the Jesus Box was perfectly balanced

It still isn't. Nothing has changed for the Jesus Box, except it doesn't grant immunity at 300M anymore.

I know, it's high skill ceiling play to anticipate enemy movement on the maps we all know by heart, and actually VISUALLY SCOUT the enemy, press y, and report that info in team chat.

I know, it's high skill ceiling to actually HAVE TO AIM your direct fire weapons, and line up a crosshair while moving.

I know, it's high skill ceiling to realize that streak srm systems in this game are a joke, and are really for people who aren't high skill ceiling'd enough to accurately aim at a point while moving.

My favorite part of your man-child qq was that ECM still isn't balanced, despite even the genetic flotsam playing in puglandia knowing it isn't worth it anymore.

[Abivard]

bobF, on 15 November 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

You can blame the baddies lobbying for Russ to keep the BAP changes, and possibly, I **** you not, expand the range. Because people have no skills and would rather use indirect fire, risk free from the comfort of total cover, they constantly complained about ECM. ECM is apparently a "Jesus Box" that prevents all damage, and magically confuses the people who play the game into thinking the opfor is "stealthed" and they suddenly can't tell where the enemy is going (because as we all know the expansive maps in this game allow for a variety of movement and tactics, amirite). PGI, in its propensity to listen to the whines of grown man-children who've never played a PvP computer game until this one, decided that one form of passive aura buff (BAP) should be better than the other (ECM) and basically gimped every mech with ECM.

The baddies and apologists will come out and cry some more about ECM, about how it's now perfectly balanced, even thought it only functionally has any benefit on large maps like mordor and alpine (for the first 5m of the match at that), and any mech can mount BAP while ECM requires a hardpoint. BALANCE.

The hilarious part is people are still saying "herpaderp, just buy AMS and bring ECM, balance" when it's just more disingenuous garbage to keep their indirect fire EZ mode, free shared targeting, and no more pesky challenge of having to aim at anything.

ECM was fine before the BAP change, teams appreciated it (especially on caustic) and spotters had to do actual work with NARC and TAG. Now, just find a hill 300m from the enemy zerg and comfortably hide behind it while the hard rain pours down, or just take your rubberbanding, lagging indestructible light mech and make a few passes during a brawl.

And now people wonder why lrming is so bad: no one wants to bring the most effective anti-lrm system there is, ECM, because it's useless. Rejoice, grown man-children, more challenge was removed from the game to accommodate your slowed mind and reflexes.

Eliminating variables and weapon systems makes the game more challenging?

[Willard Phule]

Mcgral18, on 15 November 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Of course, the Jesus Box was perfectly balanced

It still isn't. Nothing has changed for the Jesus Box, except it doesn't grant immunity at 300M anymore.

Different queues, different dynamics.

It never fails to amaze. Some guy that plays primarily in the group queue comes to the solo queue during an event...when it's swarmed harder than normal...and experiences the same thing that everyone that plays in the solo queue exclusively has been experiencing for MONTHS.

I know I can't confirm this with any posts newer than a year or so but we get a LOT of new or very inexperienced players in the solo queue's general population. New and inexperienced players prefer "fire and forget" weapons that don't require them to aim....so, you get LRMs and the occasional SSRM boat. It is what it is. It's a shame they don't use BAP/CAP but, whatever.

During events, especially one that's focused on your ability to get assists as opposed to kills, you really should expect to fight in the shade.

[Mcgral18]

bobF, on 15 November 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

I know, it's high skill ceiling play to anticipate enemy movement on the maps we all know by heart, and actually VISUALLY SCOUT the enemy, press y, and report that info in team chat.

I know, it's high skill ceiling to actually HAVE TO AIM your direct fire weapons, and line up a crosshair while moving.

I know, it's high skill ceiling to realize that streak srm systems in this game are a joke, and are really for people who aren't high skill ceiling'd enough to accurately aim at a point while moving.

My favorite part of your man-child qq was that ECM still isn't balanced, despite even the genetic flotsam playing in puglandia knowing it isn't worth it anymore.

You mean, the thing that has the same magical properties it had two weeks ago isn't magic now that something counters it further?

Please, try to logic.


When in disrupt mode, it should be generating 10 heat because of the Null Sig aspects. That would turn the 10 engine DHS into SHS. That would be a balancing factor.

As it stands, it combines Null Sig, Stealth armour, Angel ECM for the low cost of a gECM system, or as it's implemented in MWO, the Magic Jesus Box.


I'm sorry you can't see that.

[bobF]

Abivard, on 15 November 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

Eliminating variables and weapon systems makes the game more challenging?

You mean like gimping ECM with another passive aura buff? Tell me more how using an internet meme ironically doesn't make you look stupid.

Mcgral18, on 15 November 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

You mean, the thing that has the same magical properties it had two weeks ago isn't magic now that something counters it further?

Please, try to logic.


When in disrupt mode, it should be generating 10 heat because of the Null Sig aspects. That would turn the 10 engine DHS into SHS. That would be a balancing factor.

As it stands, it combines Null Sig, Stealth armour, Angel ECM for the low cost of a gECM system, or as it's implemented in MWO, the Magic Jesus Box.


I'm sorry you can't see that.

So then the answer is to endorse a magic counter passive aura buff, and call it a day? Meanwhile, the hard rain continues. Your vision of the game is highly compelling and fun.

[Fut]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 15 November 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

Sure sure. Alright.. Depends on your piloting skill and positioning and situational awareness. And iam not talking about a few lrm mechs in game. Iam talking about 4-6 or even sometimes more per match which you see pretty often on those challenge weekends.
And if you call lrms weak as hell then a large amount of community must be thinking: "Alright guys lets pick up the weak as hell weapon just to look cool". Alright dude.... Your argue sounds pretty valid.


Stay classy

Exactly. The problem isn't with LRMs, it's with people's failure to deal with them in the appropriate manner.

To your second point; LRMs are weak as hell. Jump into a HBK-4J for awhile, then let us know how OP you think the weapon system is. The reason you see 4-6 people with some LRMs on their build is because people are starting to see the benefits of a mixed load-out. If you bring an AC, an LRM rack, and some MLs you can engage the enemy a great number of ranges.

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 15 November 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

dual ams with overlord and the ams range Module do kill how many missiles out of a volley of 60? 20-30? Still not effective enuff imo

What, you want AMS to shoot down 100% of the missiles coming at you?