51 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Right now, if you, say, decided to bring all 4 Founder's Mechs into Community Warfare...

...you couldn't. At all. It's 250 tons. 35, 50, 65, 100.

Why not give the Founder's Atlas and Catapult the special quirk of "treat this Mech as 5 tons less weight for drop purposes"? It'd be nice to be able to bring the Original Four out together, as that'd make it precisely 240 tons.

For that matter, it'd be a nice quirk to put on less noticed designs for community warfare: Easy To Pack (this 'Mech is treated as X tons lighter for drop deck purposes).

Edit: No, I don't just mean the (F) designated versions- but it was considering them that brought the thought about easier-to-carry 'Mechs being an actual quirk in Battletech to the fore.

Edited by wanderer, 18 November 2014 - 05:40 AM.

[Elizander]

Oh, I remember that from the quirk set. Some mechs are easier to store and take up less space and such.

[FupDup]

That would make the Founders mechs have a higher gameplay performance (in CW) than their non-Founders counterparts. So no. Them making more money is fine because more spacebux doesn't influence the outcome of the battle itself, but being able to pack in more robo-weight does influence the battle and therefore should not be given to limited-time money-only mechs.

If you want those mechs to be "Easy To Pack" then it would have to apply to their C-Bill counterparts to avoid an imbalance.

Edited by FupDup, 17 November 2014 - 04:51 PM.

[Desolator]

wanderer, on 17 November 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

Right now, if you, say, decided to bring all 4 Founder's Mechs into Community Warfare...

...you couldn't. At all. It's 250 tons. 35, 50, 65, 100.

Why not give the Founder's Atlas and Catapult the special quirk of "treat this Mech as 5 tons less weight for drop purposes"? It'd be nice to be able to bring the Original Four out together, as that'd make it precisely 240 tons.

For that matter, it'd be a nice quirk to put on less noticed designs for community warfare: Easy To Pack (this 'Mech is treated as X tons lighter for drop deck purposes).

Or they could just increase the tonnage to 250 tons......

[SgtMagor]

you could always strip 10tons off your mechs heh!

[luxebo]

wanderer, on 17 November 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

Bonuses to Founders.

Why don't we take a step further and give it to every full pack buyer? Why don't we add to the bonus and let them be P2W and stuff like Phoenixer's get more bonuses than LP?

No since it didn't come with the package. It's just wrong and 9 + 10 is not 21.

In all honesty though, just to fit the Founder's mechs and the Clan trials (Kit Fox, Nova, Summoner, and Dire Wolf) increase tonnage to 250 (30 + 50 + 70 + 100). And of course I got ninja'd.

Then again this may result in AS7/DWF rush with 100 + 100 + 25 + 25. And you don't even have to use Lolcusts (Mist Lynx + Commando). Especially broken is AS7-DDC + COM-2D, infinite ECM. DWF + Mist Lynx isn't that bad I guess but it's pretty bad to say the least.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Or the top end value can shift from 240 to 250 tons for the maximum drop deck.

[Elizander]

Of course any bonus like this should be given to the base variant and not a special version of it.

[Xtrekker]

I could see some kind of bonus (non-P2W) for any of the top-tier package variants, but only if you take just those mechs. Call it a "familiar tech" bonus or something. Shame the tonnage doesn't work out.

[Scratx]

I like the idea, but I am against it. That would give founder mechs something that could actually be argued to be "P2W". I don't want to deal with that crap, no matter how untrue it actually is.

They weigh what they weigh, they shouldn't be special snowflakes that allow going over the tonnage limits for CW. Plus, I don't think tonnage should be raised to 250, either, otherwise we'll be seeing TW+TW+TW+ML drop-decks.

[luxebo]

To all of you thinking 250 will do: 2xDire Wolf and 2xMist Lynx. 2xAS7-DDC and 2xCOM-2D. This enough to say that there is an issue with raising the tonnage? There won't be Dashers in a long while due to MASC so if we raise the tonnage then Dire Wolf will come and raise hell again.

[Brody319]

Thats one way to make it Pay to win.

[Alex Warden]

FupDup, on 17 November 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

That would make the Founders mechs have a higher gameplay performance

you realize we are talking about founders mechs here? not really the best mechs in this game, and not even the best variants of their chassis as far as i remember... most 60 tonners are better than the Cat C1, so i wouldnt mind that one at least

@250 tons...the 100+100+25+25 argument speaks against it...

Edited by Alex Warden, 17 November 2014 - 05:17 PM.

[FupDup]

Alex Warden, on 17 November 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

you realize we are talking about founders mechs here? not really the best mechs in this game, and not even the best variants of their chassis as far as i remember...

@250 tons...the 100+100+25+25 argument speaks against it...

Example:

A current Hunchback 4G has identical impact on match outcome as a Hunchie 4G(F), with the 4G(F) simply adding convenience of a shorter C-Bill grind.

Under the OP's suggestion, the 4G(F) would allow the player to pack in 5 more tons of mech into their CW drop deck, thereby giving them a combat advantage over a player using the normal 4G, in addition to the grind-reducing C-Bill booster. Assuming all other factors were equal, a player fielding a 4G(F) would be slightly superior to a player fielding a 4G, because more tonnage = better.

(This also applies for the other Founders variants).


It's about balancing them against their freebie counterparts. The one that costs money shouldn't increase the user's chance of winning, it should simply make life more convenient via income boosts (current function).

Edited by FupDup, 17 November 2014 - 05:21 PM.

[Alex Warden]

well, i get what you mean... but if you give that "bonus" only if you drop with all 4, i think that would balance it out again... 10 tons more, yes, but not necessarily an advantage over one who fields 240 tons "meta variants", if i might call them so

i guess there are pros and cons ... and btw, i couldn´t care less... i only got the C1(F) anyway

Edited by Alex Warden, 17 November 2014 - 05:29 PM.

[Sundervine]

Actually:

Compact 'Mech
Compact 'Mechs are especially small and easy to transport. They take up half the normal space in a transport's 'Mechbay, though they still take up a full Repair bay. Applicable to: Light or Medium BattleMechs and IndustrialMechs with theNarrow/Low Profile Positive Quirk. Thus you would need to do that to the founders Jenner, and hunchie. It is a real live TT rule.

[Alistair Winter]

Sounds good to me. Just so long as they let new players buy the Founder mech pack for the same price as the Founders paid. Call it Operation Tribute and give the mechs a (T) tag instead of the (F) tag.

[dario03]

No.

Maybe allow that compact mech thing and do it for one of the Founder chassis but only if all variants of that Chassis get it.

But really I would just say no, to keep it simple.

[QuantumButler]

FupDup, on 17 November 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

That would make the Founders mechs have a higher gameplay performance (in CW) than their non-Founders counterparts. So no. Them making more money is fine because more spacebux doesn't influence the outcome of the battle itself, but being able to pack in more robo-weight does influence the battle and therefore should not be given to limited-time money-only mechs.

If you want those mechs to be "Easy To Pack" then it would have to apply to their C-Bill counterparts to avoid an imbalance.

no it wouldn't, the founder Atlas and Catapult are sub optimal variants and need all the help they can get.

[FupDup]

QuantumButler, on 17 November 2014 - 08:34 PM, said:

no it wouldn't, the founder Atlas and Catapult are sub optimal variants and need all the help they can get.

You're reading my post wrong.

What I'm saying is that the Cat C1 would become combat inferior to the Cat C1(F) and the Atlas D would become combat inferior to the Atlas D(F).

Same hardpoints, same quirks, same everything else, except now the (F) versions would magically require less dropship tonnage and would therefore offer an advantage that can change the flow of battle (because more tonnage is generally better, with all else being equal).