103 replies to this topic

[Xtrekker]

AUSwarrior24, on 17 November 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

Arguments that only the critics cling to. And it wouldn't settle it, it'd add more flames to the fire. Suddenly there's more ammo to fling about. PGI is doing the right thing.
People just need move on from that stuff. If you don't like things, nothing is keeping you here.

I like how the argument against people who would like to know the player population is GTFO.

[Impyrium]

CompproB237, on 17 November 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

Because that's exactly what's going on. Isn't it? I mean... unless, you know, showing the population numbers would say something differently then there would be nothing to be embarrassed about.

And if the numbers did happen to be lower than your perceived 'healthy' amount? You'd make a huge song and dance about it? Probably kick up a storm that scares away more newbies?

There really isn't a reason to know unless you want to criticise it.

Xtrekker, on 18 November 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

I like how the argument against people who would like to know the player population is GTFO.

No, it's GTFO to those that stick around purely for the purpose of trying to criticize the game. As I said, there's no REASON to know it other than to do that. And there's no REASON to stick around to do such a thing. It only sounds detrimental to your own enjoyment.

[CompproB237]

AUSwarrior24, on 18 November 2014 - 12:07 AM, said:

And if the numbers did happen to be lower than your perceived 'healthy' amount? You'd make a huge song and dance about it? Probably kick up a storm that scares away more newbies?

There really isn't a reason to know unless you want to criticise it.

Umm, no I would not be make a huge song and dance about it. You want the honest truth? I wanted to take "industry standards" and apply them to the player counts to get an idea of PGI's income. Besides, the last town hall already had Russ stating that new players are not a priority at this time. His words, not mine.

Edited by CompproB237, 18 November 2014 - 12:11 AM.

[Impyrium]

Kilo 40, on 17 November 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

exactly. It's because they know that if PGI doesn't release the numbers they can criticize them for not releasing them AND the numbers MUST be bad or else they would release them. then if PGI does release them, they will either say the numbers are a lie, or say the numbers show just how poorly the game is doing.

PGI get criticized for this no matter what they do, so they may as well do what they think is best for them in this situation.

Indeed. I would say the worst part of MWO is the tendency of certain parts of the community to criticize everything PGI does. I just don't understand the need for people to do such a thing. Regardless of the reasons they may want the player count, it's certainly not to praise the game. And I don't think the rest of us care that much.

CompproB237, on 18 November 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

Umm, no I would not be make a huge song and dance about it. You want the honest truth? I wanted to take "industry standards" and apply them to the player counts to get an idea of PGI's income. Besides, the last town hall already had Russ stating that new players are not a priority at this time. His words, not mine.

... why? Inevitably someone would start a post and then it gets out of control.

To be entirely frank, is it really the player's business regarding how much PGI makes? As Russ said, base what you spend and play on how you enjoy a game personally. Not a company's financial statistics. If it was really that dire that it'd be a concern, I think we'd be seeing less production work, not more.

[CompproB237]

AUSwarrior24, on 18 November 2014 - 12:14 AM, said:

... why? Inevitably someone would start a post and then it gets out of control.

To be entirely frank, is it really the player's business regarding how much PGI makes? As Russ said, base what you spend and play on how you enjoy a game personally. Not a company's financial statistics. If it was really that dire that it'd be a concern, I think we'd be seeing less production work, not more.

That's others prerogative to take them out of control.
I'm just curious. I've always been that way. I'm a math-guy. I work with businesses and deal with their finances.

Is it any surprise, by what you and Russ said, that I've spent nothing on the game since ECM and the first time they missed the CW deadline... 2 years ago?

[Kotev]

I play MWO regulary since closed beta and can say from expirience that population is increasing especially this year. I think PGI is taking the game in right direction and they are fully commited to make best MW game possible. Probably the haters gona hate just for the sake of it but if you love Mech Warrior you will support this game becouse its only one in existence and can grow to be the game you will love.

[Kilo 40]

CompproB237, on 18 November 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

Besides, the last town hall already had Russ stating that new players are not a priority at this time. His words, not mine.

He said they aren't ready to start bringing in new players through marketing and possibly Steam, at this time. But could possibly change in 2015.

AUSwarrior24, on 18 November 2014 - 12:14 AM, said:

Indeed. I would say the worst part of MWO is the tendency of certain parts of the community to criticize everything PGI does. I just don't understand the need for people to do such a thing.

because being cynical is easy.

[Moonlander]

Tekadept, on 17 November 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

yep look ma bottom right, thats what it used to look like

I remember that mechlab from when I first checked out the game. I really wish it still looked this way.

[Lily from animove]

so lets imagine PGI says we have 10k different gamers daily and a total amount of 3 million accounts, what do you think is happening?

people will rant about that the 3 million accounts are probably old and not used for like 5 years.
people will rant about the 10k being only 2k because everyone has 5 alt accounts.

[CocoaJin]

[Xtrekker]

Kilo 40, on 18 November 2014 - 12:22 AM, said:

because being cynical is easy.

You know, there are plenty of people who post with good intentions in gray areas, but within a couple of posts they are badgered into defending a loose position against an onslaught of extremely combative forum trolls. It often escalates to something that the OP never intended to start. Some people just like to pick fights where there are none, then clap each other on the back and call themselves the good guys.

[CompproB237]

Xtrekker, on 18 November 2014 - 12:57 AM, said:

You know, there are plenty of people who post with good intentions in gray areas, but within a couple of posts they are badgered into defending a loose position against an onslaught of extremely combative forum trolls. It often escalates to something that the OP never intended to start. Some people just like to pick fights where there are none, then clap each other on the back and call themselves the good guys.

This is why we can never have civil discourse and debate on these forums. Reactive Devaluation and Cognitive Dissonance really don't help either.

[Tekadept]

Interesting fact.
Whilst I have known for a long time what Cognitive Dissonance is. I have never seen it used so prolifically like here on the mwomercs forum.

Edited by Tekadept, 18 November 2014 - 01:26 AM.

[xengk]

It would be pointless.

The naysayer already have the number X in mind.
If the release number is X or less than X, they claim the game is dying; if the release number is higher than X, they claim PGI is lying.

[Escef]

Tekadept, on 18 November 2014 - 01:12 AM, said:

Interesting fact.
Whilst I have known for a long time what Cognitive Dissonance is. I have never seen it used so prolifically life here on the mwomercs forum.

If we were to believe what the nay-sayers have said, we are now playing some kind of a zombie of game, that died in early open beta, that somehow has a negative number of players.

I honestly don't care if PGI releases info on the number of accounts and usual server loads. But knowing this is a niche game, I expect that the numbers being low compared to WoW or LoL will be all the ammo the current crop of nay-sayers need to maintain suppressive fire against potential new players. And if the game is going to thrive in the long-term we need new players.

[Pale Jackal]

GrimReality, on 17 November 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

At my count, the forum has somewhere around 600,000 registered users.

Spoiler

Showing my math:
(20 accounts listed per page) multiplied by (just a hair over 30,000 pages) = 600,000 accounts

Very interesting!

[CompproB237]

Tekadept, on 18 November 2014 - 01:12 AM, said:

Interesting fact.
Whilst I have known for a long time what Cognitive Dissonance is. I have never seen it used so prolifically like here on the mwomercs forum.

You've also got Confirmation Bias, Post-Purchase Rationalization, Irrational Escalation, False Consensus Effect, and an awful lot of Dunning-Kruger.

[Sky Hawk]

GrimReality, on 17 November 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

I find it interesting to note the total number of registered users, which can be easily found here: http://mwomercs.com/...php?app=members Since the player account and forum account are one in the same, we can know the total number of players who have ever even tried MWO. This of course, doesn't begin to tell us their activity, much less if they have multiple accounts or any other variables really at all, just the absolute total.

At my count, the forum has somewhere around 600,000 registered users.

...
When this game is truly out of Open Beta 2.0 (that is, after CW is fully operational) I think there will be a massive boom in the population since there will be so much more to offer players new and old alike, and a lot more reason to get noticed.

All that said, I'd still like to see a return of the "Players Online" counter.

1. Sadly, registration is not even means equal to people, who tried to play MWO.. I had 3 registrations, more than 1 years priors to having a PC, which can run MWO.. So based in my case:

- 600.000 registration --(3 acc/head)--> 200.000 people --(10% not strong enough PC)--> 180.000 --(from 6 Skyhawk similar-named player, 2 still plays)--> 60.000 players, who played in 2014 --(one is a "weekend"-er)--> 30.000 "nearly every days" players..

2. Since BT/MW has a very small fanbase.. I think, most of them are alredy here... And because it is a hell hard to learn, even when stream catch some new ones.. the majority will leave us fast.. So boom would be nice.. but, I don't think it will happen.

3. Ye!

[van Uber]

Strong Female Role Model, on 17 November 2014 - 07:23 PM, said:

But if the player base dwindles, as many suspect it has quite significantly in the last 2 years, then so too does the customer base for PGI's new offerings.

Where do you even begin to draw this conclusion or where you never in closed beta? I have no clue what the player base is, but I do know that the forum has higher attendance today than the game had two years ago.

As Kiiyor mentions in the first page of this thread, he has 18000 unique names in a limited sample (from 20-30 contributors) over three months. That does not reveal the player base either, but it is a strong indication that we are far better off than two years ago.

[Strong Female Role Model]

I am kind of getting astray from the player count questions, but I just wanted to speak a bit about some of the responses in this thread.

I've played Age of Conan. I've played Warhammer Online. I even mucked around in Tabula Rasa for a month or so. I have seen MMOs crash & burn. And it was not because the player base trolled the games out of existence. It was because the games had serious issues that made them boring or broken long term. I can't help but compare how similar the dev defending forum warriors those games had are to the ones on the MWO forums.

It's really tiring to see any question or critique get buried by walls of huffy text by folks who for whatever reason are completely satisfied with the status quo. They seem to take anything that would rock the boat as a personal affront and berate people that would dare want the game to change. Calling people trolls, 'not real fans', or haters that wanted the game to fail.

With those old, dead games it always seemed to be a relatively small potion of the community that would continually shout down the rest. They would be the ones who had followed the game development from inception, played in the betas, and purchased whatever day one collectors edition was available. I am sure some of you played some of the same games, or other failed ventures, and noticed the same things. Now the games didn't fail because of these forum warriors. They were largely beyond saving at launch. But the 'everything about the game is fine' echo chamber that often developed really was of no value to those game's survival.

I believe MWO has the potential to be a really great game. The core game play is pretty fun, and though I find the grind rather deplorable with current c-bill income, it does mean that people will actually invest a year or two into the game if they want to get all the neat toys. Some of the upcoming features and an enhanced new player experience will be great if they are followed through on. But I can't help but be reminded of those other games when a question as innocuous as 'how many people are we playing with', or other similar questions in other threads, causes such a hostile response from certain segments of the forum,