22 replies to this topic

[Skribs]

Between weapon modules and quirks, as well as the mechs that were already really powerful, TTL in this game is really short. It feels more like a FPS where you just melt the target in a few seconds than that I'm piloting a big mech with tons of armor.

IMO this was also one of the big culprits behind high alphas, so my solutionbhere is the same I suggested before ghost heat:

Increase maximum and per-ton armor values and structure health and increase ammo by a similar amount. It could even give more of an increase to center torso to encourage STD engines, as well as less to legs because they've already been boosted.

I have other thoughts on quirks and ghost heat but I think time to live is probably one of the biggest.

[Grendel408]

Do you find yourself dead early in the match... most of the time being the first to die while the rest of your team are fighting still?

What Mechs do you usually pilot, and what Mechs do you usually end up fighting against? Are you alone during this fight? Are you in a unit to take advantage of target coordination/focus firing?

Honestly... this sounds more like a suggestion rather than feedback related to the patch.

[Skribs]

Higher DPS to the quirks makes it patch related.

I'm not just talking about myself, but also my targets. I can gut enemy Mechs really quick, if I have the right Mech. The problem is it seems like more of a DPS race than an epic mech battle like it used to.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

I agree, but I would look for solution somewhere else.

[Skribs]

Where else would you look for the solution?

[Thunder Child]

I've actually been thinking about this lately too, especially with some of the new quirks (not complaining, btw. So many mech back from the dead, though some *Cough*Pulsestarter*Cough* just weren't needed).

But rather than buffing the hell out of armor, instead, give a small increase to armor, but a Major hike in Internal Structure, and component (the stuff, not the locations) durability. One of the BIG things in BT, that made it so different from other games, was the attrition factor. Most games, your character remained almost completely battle ready till all his HP was gone.
In BT, once your HP was gone, you suddenly had a second (smaller) HP to take hits with. BUT, you also had a chance to lose weapons, have ammo explode, actuators get destroyed, etc. And all of these things had a major impact on the game.

We don't have that in MWO. Sure, once someones cored out, you try to focus that location, but only because 90% of the time, it kills them. By buffing structure and components, instead of armor, you still increase the longevity of player life spans, but suddenly the game has a lot more menace to it. Whereas an armor buff just means players can take more hits, the structure buff means you CAN take more hits, but with the risk that something important might go POP.

Anyways, just my 2 C-bills worth.

[Skribs]

Interesting points. My suggestion was really more of a hybrid to increase armor and internals, but you seem to want to go straight for internals.

Either way, the only ways to increase time-to-live once in the fight is to nerf damage or to buff armor and/or health (or both). I thought Ghost Heat was partially to increase time-to-live, in addition to breaking the overpoweredness of certain builds. But quirks sort of reversed that, or normalized it.

[Troutmonkey]

As a programmer my simple option would be a damage multiplier that affects all weapons.

damageTaken += weaponDamage * globalMultiplier;

'Mechs dying too quickly? Lower the slider and every weapon gets weakened by the same amount and all weapons maintain relative balance. You could even have different game modes where the slider was set to different amounts for those who enjoy long grindy matches and for those who like short insta-gib matches. Like the difference between regular Halo deathmatch and SWAT

The same multiplier could be used for weapon cooldowns to slow down pacing, but this might not affect all weapons equally.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 13 November 2014 - 11:01 PM.

[Lily from animove]

it's really mech dependend, some die insanely fast while others are kina immortal, it all relates a lot to their hitboxes and abilities to disappear, turn away. One of the things affecting the true huge imbalance between mechs.

Edited by Lily from animove, 14 November 2014 - 05:18 AM.

[BINDLETORC]

the game is different again after the last patch. personally i think that's great. it has caused me to start spending money on it again. i definitely took a hit in the first week after the patch trying to figure out good builds and bad ones.
as with every nerf and quirk and buff this game has ever incorporated, it takes a while to balance out as people adjust.but keep playing and you will see things work themselves out. or maybe not but at least they are keeping it fresh

[EvilCow]

I think TTK is fine, a bit on a slow side maybe.

[Skribs]

The ones that live long is usually due to poor hit registry. I find torso twisting nowadays most often is less of a spread-the-damage than it is sacrificing a different component.

You might live long during the match, and LRMs are usually pretty good, but once the brawl starts it isbhard for anything but assaults to survive for long.

[Siegegun]

Paul said TTK since the quirkening is only 15 seconds shorter than before. Honestly that is not a lot.

[Skribs]

Matches are 15 seconds shorter.

But that is not indicative of TTK because most people play hide and seek or peekaboo most of the match. The more damage you have the less likely you are to expose yourself to damage, thus lengthening the fight.

If I peek and take 2 shots and get cored, I'm only going to expose myself when my teammates are under fire, rather than take anothe alpha or burst to that location, which means my actual combat time goes down, even if the match time is relatively unaffected.

I would say most matches are 20% getting into position, 40% sniping and pot shots, 10% brawl, and 30% hunting down that last spider.

[MountainCopper]

Dying in a 10s brawl most times, if I'm any judge. Doesn't matter if your have 100% health or 50%, you just die to an absurd amount of concentrated damage, you most times can't even delegate to different components.
The firepower went up with team sizes increased from 8 to 12, the arrival of the Clans, and by putting SRMs to a mostly working state.

They doubled all hitpoint values in MWO compared to TT... it might be the time they got doubled again.

[Grendel408]

Skribs, on 13 November 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

Higher DPS to the quirks makes it patch related.

I'm not just talking about myself, but also my targets. I can gut enemy Mechs really quick, if I have the right Mech. The problem is it seems like more of a DPS race than an epic mech battle like it used to.

Clanners (and all Lights) fear my Thunderbolt TDR-5SS... quirks work awesome on it too even without weapon modules stacked in Quirks are going to justify a new meta to be used on Mechs... a lot of what I see are pulse lasers and SRMs being utilized more than ever before. But I do notice a good number of Mechs using weapons related to the quirks that now make the variant a more viable platform to use when prior to that they might have been sub-par to the course.

Skribs, on 14 November 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

Matches are 15 seconds shorter.

But that is not indicative of TTK because most people play hide and seek or peekaboo most of the match. The more damage you have the less likely you are to expose yourself to damage, thus lengthening the fight.

If I peek and take 2 shots and get cored, I'm only going to expose myself when my teammates are under fire, rather than take another alpha or burst to that location, which means my actual combat time goes down, even if the match time is relatively unaffected.

I would say most matches are 20% getting into position, 40% sniping and pot shots, 10% brawl, and 30% hunting down that last spider.

People are going to play smarter than before... and the higher up in ELO you get you'll notice a complete change-up in builds too. Less LRMs, more direct-fire weapons. But you have to also consider how many matches do you get into where as example: Team A spreads out too much, while Team B clumps together and works more unified. Both Teams could very well be coordinated to an equal level, but one preferred offensive to defensive strategy... defenders get rolled over.

Positioning is the most important part in playing a game like this. Without some sort of unit cooperation or cohesion, strategy just goes out the window. And... each match mode and map has it's own strategies and tactics that some folks know better than others.

And... what ultimately doesn't help any single team of players in a match is those few (you know... that Light or fast Mech who thinks they know the best idea at hand) that run off on a Rambo crusade to just die, or get left behind (slow *** Assault Mechs) while the rest of the team keeps moving and they get picked off by Lights and supporting units.

I think what some people fail to understand is strengths and weaknesses of Mechs and actually using common sense when dropping in a match to work with their team... doesn't matter if it's a 12man group, or 4+ small groups rolled into a team against a larger set of groups. How hard is it to target a Mech for the rest of your team to see? What about looking out for UAV's? Or keeping an eye out for that ECM scout lurking in the back? Apparently... difficult, and I deal with some of this in my unit... I'm constantly having to remind folks, and then they die early on and ***** and complain... for what? Common sense and communication could have prevented that... PGI adding VOIP early on (still not being developed... but it's on the "drawing board") could help lots of folks.

TTK/TTL is fine... optimize cover, try not to get focused by the enemy team... stick with your team and work on fighting fire with fire.

[Skribs]

Most of my experience is probably at a lower ELO than yours. Most of my games involve two teams trading sniper pot shots for several minutes while brawlers wait behind cover because we know if we go out noone will support us (or e pysh out and prove that theory).

Like I said, though, it doesn't take a clan mech or a team to dessimate someone. Most of my builds can rip someeone apart in seconds, and its hard to spread the damage when you're talking about that short TTL.

[Telmasa]

Well, the idea I like actually came from a thread complaining that TTK isn't short enough...lol

But anyway:

More internal structure 'health', making critical damage to weapons and stuff more important, rather than simply delimbing each other Dead Space style.

[Grendel408]

Skribs, on 14 November 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

Most of my experience is probably at a lower ELO than yours. Most of my games involve two teams trading sniper pot shots for several minutes while brawlers wait behind cover because we know if we go out noone will support us (or e pysh out and prove that theory).

Like I said, though, it doesn't take a clan mech or a team to dessimate someone. Most of my builds can rip someeone apart in seconds, and its hard to spread the damage when you're talking about that short TTL.

I know the feeling all too well dude. My next question would be then, have you and your friends considered joining a unit in MWO? I can easily tell you from the experience some of my recruits have had since joining have been a positive turnaround from their old routines. MWO is all about teamwork... sadly a good percentage of players (solo and group queues) don't tend to grasp that concept... either cause they are stat ****** trying to preserve their precious k/d ratio, or simply don't care about their team. I've had some of my best matches in MWO with an entire 12man group from my unit... but also from a couple of us dropped into a match with other similar sized groups and managed to work together through short messages while in game.

[Skribs]

I'm a fairly casual player due to real life time requirements. I play with a unit here and there but we're not always on at the same time. I just would like when I'm ambushed to have a chance to escape.