24 replies to this topic

[Colin Thrase]

PGI - Just wanted to provide you with some feedback on this weekend's tournament

Good things...

• Allowing both solo and group queues to contribute to your score
  
• Allowing us to see our current progress at http://www.mwomercs.com/tournaments, with detailed breakdown of each game
  
• Announced a day early (Thursday). Maybe this happens every time and I just miss it, since I don't play every day. If you would consider email announcements the Thursday before, that would be awesome - however, if tournaments are going to be a weekly thing, then I'll just make it a point to check your site every week.

Bad things...

• Higher score for assists than for kills. Personally I think they should be scored equally. If you score kills higher, you'll see a lot of kill stealing. If you score assists higher, you'll see a lot of players tagging every mech with damage here and there, then trying to up their scores with arms/legs destroyed while being careful not to take out the torsos. Neither method promotes the type of play where people are just trying to contribute as best they can towards winning the game. If you're going to adjust the scoring, I would suggest 20 points per kill, 20 points per assist, bonus 10 points for "kill highest damage" (or whatever that new stat is that displays on the HUD), and leave out the 'damage/15' entirely since that promotes dismemberment rather than kills.
  
• Long wait times for matchmaker. Most games were matched up pretty quickly, but the occasional game took over a minute to find a match (and in one case it was at least 3 minutes, but I wasn't timing it so I can't give an exact number). Given the number of people participating in the tournament, I would have thought matches would be paired more quickly.

Also, I was somewhat appalled to find out that I damage friendlies in over half of the games I played. Usually that value is under 10, but in two games I did 20+ damage to friendlies, and I'm having a hard time believing this, since I'm especially careful to avoid this since I knew it would impact my score. Is there any chance the friendly damage was miscalculated?

My tournament data:

• 61 Games played
  
• Average kills per game = 0.8
  
• Average assists per game = 4.4
  
• Average damage per game = 381.9
  
• Average friendly damage per game = 2.09

My final score was 2,624, with a Kurita rank of 33rd.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I agree with these points. and don't discount the possibility of someone trying to spoon you while you are looking from cover and taking a point of incidental contact damage. I am sure that any fractional damage is rounded up to the nearest whole number.

I had a couple damage rounds I couldn't account for, and suspect that either I missed a shot and hit a mech in the background, or had a misidentification issue (no triangle, or superimposed red over blue).

[El Bandito]

One teammate rammed into me while I had red internals and I actually died to that. Bet that affected his tourney score.

[Lucky Moniker]

Collision with friendly mechs does 1 point of damage, so that adds up too

[Kuritaclan]

My tournament data:

• much
  
• Average kills per game = 0.68 (i gimped them for more Assists)
  
• Average assists per game = 5,33
  
• Average damage per game = 402,87
  
• Average friendly damage per game = 10,58

My final score was 2,727, with a Wolf rank of 30rd.



My DWFs did avg. 137,2 Score. My SCRs did avg. 147,5 Score.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 17 November 2014 - 09:57 PM.

[Karl Marlow]

Instead of kills and assists I think they should of had scores for killing blow and most damage.

Most damage x20
Killing Blow x 10
thereby making solo kills x30

[BadMF]

IMHO, scoring in these tournaments should be weighted more towards the total cbills earned. Given the recent changes in this area (ie. more role-based rewards and less cbills for just being there when the killing blow is made) it would seem there is already a reasonable system in place for working out who actually contributed more to the game. Drop the kills and assists down to an equal 10 points each and incorporate the earnings into the equation like one of the recent tournaments (can't remember which one that was).

[Escef]

Leaderboard tournaments tend to totally f*** the game straight to hell, and this was no exception.

I miss the challenge where it was based on solo queue wins. It was great.

[Moonlander]

El Bandito, on 17 November 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

One teammate rammed into me while I had red internals and I actually died to that. Bet that affected his tourney score.

I would of loved to see that, I can imagine it was pretty hilarious. I was armed and my ST's had been blown out so I was essentially useless in my BNC. What did I do? Well, first thing people think when they see a big assault charging at them is shoot at is, over everything else. What they usually don't realize immediately is that I have no weapons and and while they try to kill the 1 mech without weapons my support is blasting them apart.

Oops, I rambled on and I'm about to do it again....

Colin Thrase, on 17 November 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

Long wait times for matchmaker. Most games were matched up pretty quickly, but the occasional game took over a minute to find a match (and in one case it was at least 3 minutes, but I wasn't timing it so I can't give an exact number). Given the number of people participating in the tournament, I would have thought matches would be paired more quickly.

While I think it's cool you have given us a plethora of great information... I can't help but only notice the negative "problems" which are somehow different than during normal days. You do get 3.5pts for never bringing up LRMs tho.

Kind of a weird complaint. Waiting "over a minute" is pretty decent. You can't expect instant queues at any given moment in MWO, the playerbase isn't large enough IMO. It's also based weight obv... queue on whatever has the lowest % if you want semi-instant queues...

Oh and the kill "stealing" comment... sounds little silly. Most people are flying around and fire on something before they even have the target data. you can core many mechs and they look full health. What you don't know is the cherry red torso he's sporting. Of course, this is why pressing R is fun. I've surely "stolen" kills but not because I did it on purpose. but because well, he's attacking my teammate and i fire down on whatever they're going toe to toe with, or whatever the case my be... most of the time, I'm firing on the mech before I hit my mouse button to target.

I can press R and start to fire on the target while waiting then 1-2 seconds before targeting data pops up. I naturally also aim for a CT or ST, especially on most Med/Heavy mechs. It's just a hope for a XL. Either way yea, many people don't consider stuff like that. You can do the same with the side torso, it could be cherry red but look visually like he hasn't seen any damage at all. I think this is the case for most "kill steals"

Also, using that term is silly. This is team play. You complaint about "kill stealing" is about as bad as the person who is allegedly "kill stealing" - Who gives a crap as long as whatever it is dies and your team wins? I can do multiple 1100-1200 damage matches in my BNC-3E and have 1 kill and 8 assists. It happens, as long as we win then I don't give a crap, neither should you.

Sorry, end of day and Vic is kicking in. Good day sirs and mams.

Edited by Moonlander, 17 November 2014 - 10:31 PM.

[BadMF]

Moonlander, on 17 November 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

Also, using that term is silly. This is team play. You complaint about "kill stealing" is about as bad as the person who is allegedly "kill stealing" - Who gives a crap as long as whatever it is dies and your team wins?

But the tournament scoring is based in part on kills, so Colin's argument is still valid. And trust me, there are plenty of mechs who stand off until the vital moment when a tournament is running.

Any other time it doesn't matter, as you say, because it's a team thing (or it should be).

Edited by BadMF, 17 November 2014 - 11:17 PM.

[Moonlander]

BadMF, on 17 November 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

But the tournament scoring is based in part on kills, so Colin's argument is still valid. And trust me, there are plenty of mechs who stand off until the vital moment when a tournament is running.

Any other time it doesn't matter, as you say, because it's a team thing (or it should be).

Well, with that thinking... he should be happy people are "kill stealing" during the tournament since you score better with assists.

[Duke Nedo]

ThomasMarik, on 17 November 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

Instead of kills and assists I think they should of had scores for killing blow and most damage.

Most damage x20
Killing Blow x 10
thereby making solo kills x30

BadMF, on 17 November 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

IMHO, scoring in these tournaments should be weighted more towards the total cbills earned. Given the recent changes in this area (ie. more role-based rewards and less cbills for just being there when the killing blow is made) it would seem there is already a reasonable system in place for working out who actually contributed more to the game. Drop the kills and assists down to an equal 10 points each and incorporate the earnings into the equation like one of the recent tournaments (can't remember which one that was).

+1

I think killing needs to be awarded a bit. Not insanely much, but if kill == assist, then you still benefit a bit by not dealing the killing blow. As long as the difference is not too big, just enough to promote actually concluding the kill. Perhaps something like KILL = ASSIST +2 or so.

[Lily from animove]

I cna not agree putting "announced early" into a good thing sicne it involved changign the faction which then should at leats be announced like 3 days before the launch of a challange. Because when you are bound to a unit and you can not go ingame you cna not even change your faction or leave the unit. Time was too short for this

[Kiiyor]

Colin Thrase, on 17 November 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

• Allowing us to see our current progress at http://www.mwomercs.com/tournaments, with detailed breakdown of each game

This was spectacular. The FF part of it was especially welcome. Sorry Mr Spider I TK'ed. Never forget.

Colin Thrase, on 17 November 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

• Long wait times for matchmaker. Most games were matched up pretty quickly, but the occasional game took over a minute to find a match (and in one case it was at least 3 minutes, but I wasn't timing it so I can't give an exact number). Given the number of people participating in the tournament, I would have thought matches would be paired more quickly.

Also, I was somewhat appalled to find out that I damage friendlies in over half of the games I played. Usually that value is under 10, but in two games I did 20+ damage to friendlies, and I'm having a hard time believing this, since I'm especially careful to avoid this since I knew it would impact my score. Is there any chance the friendly damage was miscalculated?

Your match wait times seem like HEAVEN to me. I consistently wait up to 5 minutes. Also, the FF thing isn't that hard to understand. It's the little bits that add up over a match.

Personally, i'd like to see some far-too-complicated changes to the way FF affects your tournament scores. In a nutshell, i'd like the little ticks of damage to count as they are, being a direct subtraction. However, I would like to see the effect of larger hits have an exponentially larger negative impact on your score.

Accidentally wave part of a laser duration over someone? It's ok, mistakes happen.

Pump dual gauss and a horror of lasers into the back of my BlackJack? Then your subtracted score is FFx10. Situational awareness penalties!

[Vassago Rain]

My feedback: the event was terrible, and brought out the worst in people.

[YokiLin]

if u want to win this Challenge, DO NOT KILL any enemy.

bc kill only get 10 points, kill assists get 20 pionts

here some of my Faction Challenge 3 piont printscreens = )








if i killed enemies, will got less points, even i did a lot of dmg

To PGI: the Challenge is BS >,>

Edited by YokiLin, 18 November 2014 - 02:50 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

imo a scoring system that should stop people playing weirdly to game the system is as follows:

(kills x 10)
+
(assists x 10)
+
(kill most damage x 5)
+
(solo kill x 5)
+
((total damage - team damage - Airstrike/Arty damage) / 15)
+
(win x 20)

maybe add some points for spotting assists/UAV use or something.

This doesnt reward 'killstealing' since waiting till the last second to nab the kill will only get you the same as an assist, but does reward taking mechs down by yourself. (and if some DOES 'KS' you, you still get 15 points to their 10)

[Duke Nedo]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 November 2014 - 02:36 AM, said:

imo a scoring system that should stop people playing weirdly to game the system is as follows:

(kills x 10)
+
(assists x 10)
+
(kill most damage x 5)
+
(solo kill x 5)
+
((total damage - team damage - Airstrike/Arty damage) / 15)
+
(win x 20)

maybe add some points for spotting assists/UAV use or something.

This doesnt reward 'killstealing' since waiting till the last second to nab the kill will only get you the same as an assist, but does reward taking mechs down by yourself. (and if some DOES 'KS' you, you still get 15 points to their 10)

Good one, I'd just like to suggest some small tweaks:

(kills x 12)
+
(assists x 10)
+
(kill most damage x 5)
+
(solo kill x 5)
+
((total damage - team damage - [Airstrike/Arty damage]/2 ) / 15)
+
(win x 20)
-
team damage

Perhaps even make it kills x15, with a big punishment for team damage it would probably be fine. I mean, killing someone that someone else is working on is not bad team play, but killing you team mate in the process is...

Edited by Duke Nedo, 18 November 2014 - 04:01 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Duke Nedo, on 18 November 2014 - 04:00 AM, said:

Good one, I'd just like to suggest some small tweaks:

(kills x 12)
+
(assists x 10)
+
(kill most damage x 5)
+
(solo kill x 5)
+
((total damage - team damage - [Airstrike/Arty damage]/2 ) / 15)
+
(win x 20)
-
team damage

Perhaps even make it kills x15, with a big punishment for team damage it would probably be fine. I mean, killing someone that someone else is working on is not bad team play, but killing you team mate in the process is...

I dont mind the other tweaks (though i FIRMLY believe strike damage should never be added to your total, not even in normal play end of match screens - 90% of the spam we see is because of the free epeen enhancement it gives) But, i would defintely not reward kill shots more than assists, because it leads to people running in front of you to block your shot so they can 'ks' for more points. You still get rewarded more for 'your' kills by means of the kill most dmg and solo kills

[Duke Nedo]

Well, if you don't reward the kill at all you are better off stripping undamaged parts of the opponent for more damage instead of actually killing him as well... had lots of that this weekend and it just looked silly... When all is said and done I guess there is nothing that can fix human behavior though...