40 replies to this topic

[Vulpesveritas]

silentD11, on 26 June 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

Air cooling is easy, thermalright and noctuna dominate most benchmarks from OC groups. Though, air cooling is rather low end anyways. Liquid cooling is where it's at, and extreme systems is the only place with every block tested with every pump, different rads, and temps vs delta temps along with flow and pressure drops. You'd have to crib all their information.

well, Phanteks just somewhat kicked thermalright and noctura to the side when they brought out their twin tower coolers... And not only are they the current top performing retail air coolers, they have color options.

[Aznpersuasion89]

I plan on getting 2 sets of the Rosewill RFX-120BL case fans plus the one that comes with the case is 5 total. The vase I'm looking at is the COOLER MASTER Elite 430 RC-430-KWN1. Not anything crazy, but I like it. Yes we need a cooling thread now too lol.

[silentD11]

Vulpesveritas, on 26 June 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

well, Phanteks just somewhat kicked thermalright and noctura to the side when they brought out their twin tower coolers... And not only are they the current top performing retail air coolers, they have color options.

You... care about color options? I haven't seen them kick off the top thermalrights, though it's been a month or so since I bothered to check air cooling... it's rather low end crap. Though phanteks designs seem to be "similar" to put it nicely and the price range is the same.

Still though, overclockers don't let overclockers use air cooling Heck I got custom GPU blocks for the 3gb MSI lightning 580s.

[Vulpesveritas]

silentD11, on 26 June 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

You... care about color options? I haven't seen them kick off the top thermalrights, though it's been a month or so since I bothered to check air cooling... it's rather low end crap. Though phanteks designs seem to be "similar" to put it nicely and the price range is the same.

Still though, overclockers don't let overclockers use air cooling Heck I got custom GPU blocks for the 3gb MSI lightning 580s.

Well, the color is just a nice touch for having the highest performance for an air cooler on the market. Unlike the ugly brown on the nocturas.
http://www.frostytec...eid=2671&page=5
http://www.tweaktown...iew/index8.html
http://www.xbitlabs....pe_5.html#sect0

http://www.legitrevi...article/1759/7/

http://www.hitechleg...-review?start=5

Aznpersuasion89, on 26 June 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

I plan on getting 2 sets of the Rosewill RFX-120BL case fans plus the one that comes with the case is 5 total. The vase I'm looking at is the COOLER MASTER Elite 430 RC-430-KWN1. Not anything crazy, but I like it. Yes we need a cooling thread now too lol.

Well, if you don't need the side panel window, this is a better case cooling and cable management wise for the same price; http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811146061
and for $20 more this is a much better case overall, and has a window;
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811147061
and this comes with 5 fans for $70;
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811103040

Just my recommendations.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 26 June 2012 - 08:29 PM.

[Aznpersuasion89]

Dude if you recommended a cardboard box id do it. No i do like the gamma case, window not necessary. Any other thoughts for the fans? I picked them because of their size, manual controller and lights. Do they make SATA/molecule adspters to fit multiple fans?

[Vulpesveritas]

Aznpersuasion89, on 26 June 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Dude if you recommended a cardboard box id do it. No i do like the gamma case, window not necessary. Any other thoughts for the fans? I picked them because of their size, manual controller and lights. Do they make SATA/molecule adspters to fit multiple fans?

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16812201006
Molex splitter.
Fan wise, if you can afford them, I recommend SilentX EFZ-15 fans (Quiet and good CFM ratings, with fluid dynamic bearings for long lifespan.. can't really go wrong.) on the mid-range and GELID on the high end (fluid dynamic / nanoflux bearing [longer life and higher CFM]), although for cheapos Rosewill is fine.

[silentD11]

None of the charts you linked had the top end thermalrights or the noctunas, and they only used premade single radiator liquid cooling (which nobody that knows hardware would use), aka it's bunk. Also a 980/930 has a different pressure zone and cools differently than the CPU's over 1155 you keep hawking so you're using the wrong damn data for what you told people to get!

I think you're cherry picking graphs to prove a point you kinda made up, AGAIN! This is a trend with you.

Here is relevant data to the CPUs people are buying today!



Note, I didn't cherry pick two gens back CPUs, unlike you did, to make a point.

Also the Noctunas heat sinks are silver, you making more stuff up?

Edited by silentD11, 26 June 2012 - 09:34 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

"Kinda made up?" Hardly, had you read the other links you would have seen it compared to the noctura and thermalright twin tower coolers,as well as LGA 1155. Also, the reason reviewers are using older platforms is for consistency of testing.
On the nocturas; have you even seen the fans they come with? And did you even bother to do some research on your own or are you just assuming I'm wrong because you haven't heard anything on it before and are to lazy to find facts to support your assumption?

something I've noticed is you seem to be out of touch with an average consumer on the point that most people don't spend $2000 or more on a PC, and water cooling does cost quite a bit more. You call all air cooling "low end" and seem to forget that by all means, $50-100 on a cooler os mid end on cooling by the perspective of someonw planning on a basic 10-30% ovweclock for 24/7 usage. Not everyone needs or even really wants a machine to push benches, or wants to spen an extra few hundred dollars for at most a 500mhz difference, especially when that money can be better spent elsewhere hence your "relevant data" isnt exactly relevant for most users here..

[Catamount]

Vulpes is right, Silent.

You're drawing comparisons with liquid cooling systems that are so expensive, it mitigates any practical purpose to even having them (because for the same price, one could just save their pennies and get a whole new CPU a generation for two down the line).


I'm not saying it's bad that you're the type of more extreme overclocker who likes that stuff. I once was myself, back when I was blowing past the 3ghz barrier with my 2.2ghz Athlon 64 3700+ (damn I loved that chip!), but to assume that people are willing to spend the price of a new CPU to make their CPU moderately faster is out of touch with most computer consumers, gamers, and even builders.

When games don't overload new higher end CPUs anyways, and rarely do older and/or lower end ones, there's no tangible gain, whatsoever, to spending so much on a cooler for performance that won't matter outside of an artificial benchmark, that you could just replace your whole CPU with that money the moment it becomes too slow. By the time there were games my Athlon 64 was, in any way, running less than optimally, I could have bought a Q6600 for the price of the liquid cooling setup I bought to overclock my single core CPU.


I'm not here to knock hobbies like overclocking, but citing hobbyist overclocker setups is completely out of touch with the needs of the builders here. Just please try to keep in mind that there are not hundreds of dollars in the budget for cooling systems for most of us. Some of those water blocks alone cost as much as most good air cooling setups.

Edited by Catamount, 27 June 2012 - 08:38 AM.

[Skrapheap]

From what I read his biggest nitpick on the data Vulpesveritas presented was the testbed, so I did a little research and grabbed these charts from Tom's Hardware that uses a 3960 as a test bed. I decided to take the liberty of including other data as well, so that the OP can make an informed decision. I am also fairly sure I could hit the web a little harder and get even more data to process, but I think I made my point.

P.S. Heh looks like that little $30 cooler I keep recommending is holding it's own against the big boys.

Edited by Wulffemein, 27 June 2012 - 08:52 AM.

[Catamount]

I wonder how my Titan Fenrir would fare in that batch of tests...

[Chiyeko Kuramochi]

I like my stock no need to look after all H100, did replace the fans on it though for 2 Noctua NF-P12 PWM fans. One of those was a bad unit though wouldn't keep spinning or only at low RPM, just replaced it as I had a couple of fans left over from my order. my cpu (3770k) idels at nicely at around 25C, highest I seen it go was 58 so far.

[Skrapheap]

I'm running a Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo on my Phenom II 965, and even with a 500 mhz overclock it's still keeping the CPU below 60 under load (the load in question was Prime95). I could probably push beyond the 4 Ghz boundary if I really wanted too, but I don't see a point in it.

[DeKamme]

I see a pull-only configuration working if you have a wind tunnel with ducts, as you often see on server class hardware (HP, Supermicro). You have an exhaust fan mounted to the side of your case. Starting from that point, you have a funnel-like piece of plastic that goes over your CPU heatsink and part of your mainboard. As the air can go only one way, there may be some turbulence, but the air can only go outward and won't heat up other components inside your case.

Something like this, but with the fan mounted to the side of the case & duct fitting over it and over the heatsink:



Or the reverse idea in an overpressure case setup:


(what a nice retro case ^^)

Edited by DeKamme, 27 June 2012 - 01:10 PM.

[Arthwys IronHand]

Well, some energetic exchanges indeed. I'm oldschool when it comes to my cooling solutions so I'm still air-cooling. My GA-990FXA-UD7 tends to run a little hot and my 8150 is clocked at 4.8GHZ and as we all know AMD runs hot. With a Noctua NH-D14 the ambient temp in my case is 43deg at full load(Prime 95) for 48 hours. Mind you I'm running this in a Cosmos II, so I have huge space for my air flow, which I've engineered to flow front to back and middle to top.

I think for Air cooling the air flow is something I haven't seen mentioned here. We all know it's important, managing cables, HDDs and peripherals to make the airflow and temp exchange as efficient as possible. That being said people tend to not think about it when they put their systems together. They just install the components and go with it.

Regarding the push/pull argument: If we're talking about CPU cooling specifically then I suggest Push. The only Pull configurations I've seen that really worked were the stock Intel ones, and those were for stock clock speeds. Overclocking was never intended for those setups. Aftermarket coolers like Coolermaster, Phantek, Noctua, etc all use push as the main element in their cooling with the pull fan on their larger models acting as a more efficient exhaust mechanism, for the air/heat being moved through and away from the heatsinks.

Anyway that's my 2cents
Cheers
A.

[sumdumfu]

when i read that a 2500k could hit nearly 5Ghz on air alone that sold me. i'm so happy with the comp i built, even though i paid a bit of a premium for newer higher end hardware, it has so much untapped performance i doubt i'll have to upgrade for 4, maybe 5 years. i haven't touched my CPU clocks yet, and my 6950 can (probably) be flashed into a 6970. all told i think i have about 50% more in untapped performance; not bad for $600 =D

[mechnut450]

I using this water cooler setup and I had no problem ( moved it into 2 different cases and cpus and it still works great without leaking.
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835227006

sadly I can't tell my temps cause the setting in the bios to do so does not give me reading number most the time, It works at random for me . ( and I still uing windows 7 pro. I think my only worrk for upgrades is video lol. but heck at 3.5 ( and i overclocked up to 4.05 ghs I am happy I think my case is so olde that it not got enough air flow lol ( just the tiny vents on the lost sides of th case . lol

[Vulpesveritas]

Wulffemein, on 27 June 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

From what I read his biggest nitpick on the data Vulpesveritas presented was the testbed, so I did a little research and grabbed these charts from Tom's Hardware that uses a 3960 as a test bed. I decided to take the liberty of including other data as well, so that the OP can make an informed decision. I am also fairly sure I could hit the web a little harder and get even more data to process, but I think I made my point.

P.S. Heh looks like that little $30 cooler I keep recommending is holding it's own against the big boys.

okay so do you have a second source? one source doesn't mean the end all of results you know. I linked five sources which had the Phanteks cooler at the top of they're charts for air cooling, and was behind by one degree Celsius on temps in the Tom's hardware tests, which means that there is a definite possible margin of error there, different case, cooling conditions, etc.

[Skrapheap]

Vulpesveritas, on 27 June 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

okay so do you have a second source? one source doesn't mean the end all of results you know. I linked five sources which had the Phanteks cooler at the top of they're charts for air cooling, and was behind by one degree Celsius on temps in the Tom's hardware tests, which means that there is a definite possible margin of error there, different case, cooling conditions, etc.

The one degree could be an error, but at the same time 1 degree under load is marginal at best, running in either direction. However what I was showing was the temps on a newer CPU, as your "critic" decided to call you on the last older CPU.

[Catamount]

Wulffemein, on 28 June 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

what I was showing was the temps on a newer CPU, as your "critic" decided to call you on the last older CPU.

Which I didn't really get anyways, since both the i7 930 and i7 980X have the exact same TDP as the i7 3960X (130W). It seemed like a desperate argument on the part of that poster.