41 replies to this topic

[Sug]

Postumus, on 19 November 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

Or, you could just put the packs in the MC store. If someone has 14k MC sitting in the bank, why not let them buy a pack instead of having to shell out more money?

Postumus, on 19 November 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

If someone has 14k MC sitting in the bank, why not let them buy a pack instead of having to shell out more money?

Postumus, on 19 November 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

why not let them buy a pack instead of having to shell out more money?

Postumus, on 19 November 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

having to shell out more money?

Postumus, on 19 November 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

more money?

[Lily from animove]

Alistair Winter, on 19 November 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

50% off sales for Inner Sphere, because very few people are still paying MC for those.

15% off sales for Clan mechs, because those are PGI's primary cash cow.

Are you surprised?

50% sales for old producs (aka IS) 15% sales for new products (Clan).

thats just regular marketing everywhere, not MWO related, and not clan/is related. New IS mechs will be similar discounted at their beginning of product lifetime.

YUyahoo, on 19 November 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

I understand what you are getting at and agree the mastery packs are a terrific value for the new player (and even existing player) but it isn't a "sale", its a standard price. A "sale" targeted at the new player (rather than a sale "meant to help out players who may be sitting on a reserve of MC") would be to offer 15% off mastery packs for example...or 15% off the $ cost of MC packages (note I am only using "15%" as an example because it is the % used in this weeks "sale"...35%-50%, what seems more common for PGI, would be preferred however a little extreme for mastery packs since they are already discounted by 50%).
The bigger point I am trying to express to PGI in general is that an MC sale on any item that can be purchased with Cbills is of very little value to anyone. Yes maybe some people may actually see a value to these types of sales, even when the discount is only 15%, but if you have read the feedback on the last several months of these types of "sales" most people aren't interested in and therefore not "taking advantage of" (meaning they aren't rushing out to spend real $ on) these types of sales any more.
The truly sad part of this weeks "sale" is, if Niko is correct, if the target audience of this sale is "meant to help out players who may be sitting on a reserve of MC" then PGI's marketing department is targeting people whose real money PGI has already collected and therefore this "sale"'s likelyhood of generating new revenue (which generally is the objective of any sale) is even less that what it appears.

most people aren't interested? says who? a small vocal part of the community. I am quite sure PGI has the sales numbers on these offers knowing more than we, and if those kind of discounts wouldn't work, they wouldn't do them.

[ImperialKnight]

PSA: Clan mech packs /Ala Carte are still available. AND you get an Invasion variant with CBill bonuses.

[YUyahoo]

Lily from animove, on 20 November 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

50% sales for old producs (aka IS) 15% sales for new products (Clan).

thats just regular marketing everywhere, not MWO related, and not clan/is related. New IS mechs will be similar discounted at their beginning of product lifetime.




most people aren't interested? says who? a small vocal part of the community. I am quite sure PGI has the sales numbers on these offers knowing more than we, and if those kind of discounts wouldn't work, they wouldn't do them.

Ok Lily since you seem to have an insight greater that what these forums indicate, I'm curious to know when was the last time you bought and spent MC on mechs that were available to be purchased for Cbills (not eventually available for Cbills, I mean at the same time you spent MC to buy said mech(s) you could have bought them for Cbills)? Ok, sure maybe there are a few people out there that would rather use MC than grind out the Cbills to buy mechs that way but as a few people have already pointed out the Wave 1 packages are a far better and cheaper deal (Niko himself even acknowledged this yesterday).
How do you know that the numerous posts expressing people's displeasure at yet another MC sale on Cbill mechs are only representative of a "small part of the community"? Have you spoken to every single MWO player and asked their opinion to know that so many more like these kinds of sales? If so many people are in favor of MC sales on Cbill mechs where are all the posts saying things like "yes finally an MC sale on mechs I can buy for Cbills" or "wow, 15% off the MC cost of Cbill mechs now I finally have a reason to buy more MC (or spend the MC I have been stockpiling)". I have read dozens upon dozens of pages of forum posts from countless members of our community with comments such as "MC discount on Cbill mechs? Pass" to support my standpoint...what evidence do you have?
The fact that PGI's marketing department keeps running these types of sales isn't evidence that they are successful (or using that kind of logic it would be clear that 15% off sales are far more successful than 30-50% off sales because PGI has far more 15% off sales than they do 30-50% off sales). The only thing I think all these MC sales on Cbill items demonstrate is how out of touch PGI's marketing department is with the MWO community (us, we the players who pay the $ they are trying to get us to spend) and Niko's post yesterday indicating that this sale is targeted at helping those player who have a surplus of MC lying around only further reinforces this point. A useful sale would be an MC discount on mechs that only have an MC cost (such as in this sale currently the Warhawk is the only wave 1 mech that doesn't have a Cbill cost which is why I stated in my original post I guess only the Warhawk is on sale...well until next week when the Warhark has its Cbill release) and to generate more interest place an MC AND a Cbill discount on mechs that can be bought with either.

Edited by YUyahoo, 20 November 2014 - 03:28 AM.

[Lily from animove]

YUyahoo, on 20 November 2014 - 03:26 AM, said:

Ok Lily since you seem to have an insight greater that what these forums indicate, I'm curious to know when was the last time you bought and spent MC on mechs that were available to be purchased for Cbills (not eventually available for Cbills, I mean at the same time you spent MC to buy said mech(s) you could have bought them for Cbills)? Ok, sure maybe there are a few people out there that would rather use MC than grind out the Cbills to buy mechs that way but as a few people have already pointed out the Wave 1 packages are a far better and cheaper deal (Niko himself even acknowledged this yesterday).
How do you know that the numerous posts expressing people's displeasure at yet another MC sale on Cbill mechs are only representative of a "small part of the community"? Have you spoken to every single MWO player and asked their opinion to know that so many more like these kinds of sales? If so many people are in favor of MC sales on Cbill mechs where are all the posts saying things like "yes finally an MC sale on mechs I can buy for Cbills" or "wow, 15% off the MC cost of Cbill mechs now I finally have a reason to buy more MC (or spend the MC I have been stockpiling)". I have read dozens upon dozens of pages of forum posts from countless members of our community with comments such as "MC discount on Cbill mechs? Pass" to support my standpoint...what evidence do you have?
The fact that PGI's marketing department keeps running these types of sales isn't evidence that they are successful (or using that kind of logic it would be clear that 15% off sales are far more successful than 30-50% off sales because PGI has far more 15% off sales than they do 30-50% off sales). The only thing I think all these MC sales on Cbill items demonstrate is how out of touch PGI's marketing department is with the MWO community (us, we the players who pay the $ they are trying to get us to spend) and Niko's post yesterday indicating that this sale is targeted at helping those player who have a surplus of MC lying around only further reinforces this point. A useful sale would be an MC discount on mechs that only have an MC cost (such as in this sale currently the Warhawk is the only wave 1 mech that doesn't have a Cbill cost which is why I stated in my original post I guess only the Warhawk is on sale...well until next week when the Warhark has its Cbill release) and to generate more interest place an MC AND a Cbill discount on mechs that can be bought with either.

Why would a company repeatedly make sales when no one is buying them? Because they don't want to sell their products? Ask that yourself. Have you ever thought about people who do not buy 3 of each mech and by this don't spend 55$ for 3? Some may buy 1 or 2 mechs with c-bills and the other(s) with MC. Some even just want to buy a single mech with MC's and don't care about always gathering 3 of them. Even for 50% off you will see someone ranting. Poeple even ranted here when thinsg were for free. So why do you think. When those sales not sell mechs, they would not do the effort to put them up at all. Thats very much some basic buisiness economics.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 November 2014 - 05:23 AM.

[Bront]

YUyahoo, on 20 November 2014 - 03:26 AM, said:

Ok Lily since you seem to have an insight greater that what these forums indicate, I'm curious to know when was the last time you bought and spent MC on mechs that were available to be purchased for Cbills (not eventually available for Cbills, I mean at the same time you spent MC to buy said mech(s) you could have bought them for Cbills)?

I never have personally (and I'm not Lily), but I know several people who have, simply because for them, Time > Money. Still, it's not often, but it does happen. Heck, I've pondered doing it for 1 chasis while I grind the other 2 (Decided against it).

Do I think they're overpriced normally? Yes. But keep in the pricing/sales line is rarely linear. When the price is too high, people will still buy, just not as many. So, 15% is still a discount on something people will buy, so it's worth it for some people.

[Desintegrator]

15% ??

You are joking....OK let's wait for the 50% sale !

[PhoenixNMGLB]

Since I have a limited amount of time to play I do buy mechs for MC simply because I am an average player and the amount of time it takes me to buy anything other than a light mech is just too much for me. Am I in a minority? Probably.

Since the whole point of a sale is to generate revenue a pure MC sale makes sense from a business perspective.

People do sometimes have odd amounts of MC left over so this encourages them to spend it.

15% may be underwhelming but seriously - complaining about a discount?

[YUyahoo]

Lily from animove, on 20 November 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

Why would a company repeatedly make sales when no one is buying them? Because they don't want to sell their products? Ask that yourself. Have you ever thought about people who do not buy 3 of each mech and by this don't spend 55$ for 3? Some may buy 1 or 2 mechs with c-bills and the other(s) with MC. Some even just want to buy a single mech with MC's and don't care about always gathering 3 of them. Even for 50% off you will see someone ranting. Poeple even ranted here when thinsg were for free. So why do you think. When those sales not sell mechs, they would not do the effort to put them up at all. Thats very much some basic buisiness economics.

Really Lily that's your proof, repeating the same thing over again that these MC sales on Cbill mechs must be successful because PGI keeps running them? And the dozens of pages of people expressing their dissatisfaction with these MC sales on Cbill items you write those off too because 'people will always complain'? Honestly repeating something over and over again despite people expressing their dissatisfaction isn't a clear indication of overwhelming success but it does demonstrate both a lack of innovation and a disconnect with a significant vocal portion of PGI's community. If these MC sales on Cbill mechs are such a great and fantastic deal why haven't you bought Cbill mechs for MC durring these sales yourself? If this weeks sale is such a great deal why would Niko (PGI Staff) admit that the wave 1 collections and a la carte packages are still a better deal even with this "sale"? Further still, some basic business economics for you: The objective of any sale is to generate revenue (either indirectly or directly) for the seller...a sale targeted at people who have already spent their money (see Niko's post yesterday about the target audience for this sale being people who have lots of unspent MC in their accounts) stands very little chance of generating NEW revenue.

Bront, on 20 November 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

I never have personally (and I'm not Lily), but I know several people who have, simply because for them, Time > Money. Still, it's not often, but it does happen. Heck, I've pondered doing it for 1 chasis while I grind the other 2 (Decided against it).

Do I think they're overpriced normally? Yes. But keep in the pricing/sales line is rarely linear. When the price is too high, people will still buy, just not as many. So, 15% is still a discount on something people will buy, so it's worth it for some people.

Bront I am a little surprised, did you read all of my post? In the very next sentence I agreed with you that some people might spend MC to buy Cbill mechs as a shortcut but since I, you, Lily and many others who have posted their dissatisfaction at these types of "sales" haven't it seems those "some people" appear to be a very small minority (rather than the majority Lily claimed to represent). Another basic economic principle: Sales targeted at a minority audience have less chance to be successful than sales aimed at the broadest range of consumers (unless of course that minority has all the $ and is the only group that can afford the item(s) in the sale, but that isn't the case here)

[Royal Gryphon]

Well, given that 3 Direwolves cost about 18000 MC (at 15% discount) which are about 80$ and the a la carte package is 55$, one could call this "Sale" misleading at best.
Personally, I would go as far as calling it trickery...

Same is true for any other given Clan mech.

[PhoenixNMGLB]

A point worth remembering is that in fact only a small percentage of players post on the game forums at all.

I am sure PGI have a good idea of the number of players and their purchasing habits and make their marketing decisions accordingly.

Since we don't have that data why second guess them?

[YUyahoo]

PhoenixNMGLB, on 20 November 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

Since I have a limited amount of time to play I do buy mechs for MC simply because I am an average player and the amount of time it takes me to buy anything other than a light mech is just too much for me. Am I in a minority? Probably.

Since the whole point of a sale is to generate revenue a pure MC sale makes sense from a business perspective.

People do sometimes have odd amounts of MC left over so this encourages them to spend it.

15% may be underwhelming but seriously - complaining about a discount?

The "complaint" if you want to call it that isn't over the percentage, it's over what the percentage discount is on. A pure MC sale on MC only items makes absolute sense from a business perspective and a consumer persective, I totally agree...but an MC sale on Cbill items (translation: a $ sale on something that can be purchased without spending $) really doesn't for most people (except, as you noted, people such as yourself who don't have the time or want to put in the effort to grind out Cbills). Furthermore, ask yourself this: if "sales" such as this would inspire you to spend MC you have "left over" how does that generate NEW revenue for PGI? If you are spending MC you have remaining on your account that is from a purchase PGI has already collected your money on.

[PhoenixNMGLB]

Royal Gryphon, on 20 November 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

Well, given that 3 Direwolves cost about 18000 MC (at 15% discount) which are about 80$ and the a la carte package is 55$, one could call this "Sale" misleading at best.
Personally, I would go as far as calling it trickery...

Same is true for any other given Clan mech.

I wouldn't go as far as trickery - are they offering a discount on the usual MC price of these mechs? Of course they are.

PGI have admitted that the a la Carte is a better deal for most mechs and I am sure most of us are capable of doing good the maths to figure that out.

But what if you have gathered the c - bills for two variants and just want that last one? That's where sales can make the difference between spending a week or two grinding the in game currency and parting with real cash.

[PhoenixNMGLB]

YUyahoo, on 20 November 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

The "complaint" if you want to call it that isn't over the percentage, it's over what the percentage discount is on. A pure MC sale on MC only items makes absolute sense from a business perspective and a consumer persective, I totally agree...but an MC sale on Cbill items (translation: a $ sale on something that can be purchased without spending $) really doesn't for most people (except, as you noted, people such as yourself who don't have the time or want to put in the effort to grind out Cbills). Furthermore, ask yourself this: if "sales" such as this would inspire you to spend MC you have "left over" how does that generate NEW revenue for PGI? If you are spending MC you have remaining on your account that is from a purchase PGI has already collected your money on.

The answer is that once you spend your reserve of MC next time you want something you have to buy more.

I agree that a dual cbill and MC sale would be better from a customer relations standpoint.

[YUyahoo]

PhoenixNMGLB, on 20 November 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

The answer is that once you spend your reserve of MC next time you want something you have to buy more.

I agree that a dual cbill and MC sale would be better from a customer relations standpoint.

Very good, I like that thought...so this then is a sale designed to produce potential future revenue rather than a sale to generate actual revenue now, right?

PhoenixNMGLB, on 20 November 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

I wouldn't go as far as trickery - are they offering a discount on the usual MC price of these mechs? Of course they are.

PGI have admitted that the a la Carte is a better deal for most mechs and I am sure most of us are capable of doing good the maths to figure that out.

But what if you have gathered the c - bills for two variants and just want that last one? That's where sales can make the difference between spending a week or two grinding the in game currency and parting with real cash.

That's a pretty big "what if" don't you think? If instead all three had their Cbill cost reduced by 15% they would almost be the same price as the two not on sale (35ish mil vs 43ish mil...ok sure still around 8 mill off, but much closer than 17+ mil...and just as unlikely to happen, but here is just as much opportunity for PGI to make $ here because if you are still a few mil cbills short well you could always buy MC and convert it to Cbills<--yes I fully realize this is the least effective use for MC, just trying to make a point...and the point is there are far better and more attractive ways to entice the community to spend $ on this game than yet another MC discount on Cbill mechs).

[PhoenixNMGLB]

YUyahoo, on 20 November 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

Very good, I like that thought...so this then is a sale designed to produce potential future revenue rather than a sale to generate actual revenue now, right?




That's a pretty big &quot;what if&quot; don't you think? If instead all three had their Cbill cost reduced by 15% they would almost be the same price as the two not on sale (35ish mil vs 43ish mil...ok sure still around 8 mill off, but much closer than 17+ mil...and just as unlikely to happen, but here is just as much opportunity for PGI to make $ here because if you are still a few mil cbills short well you could always buy MC and convert it to Cbills&lt;--yes I fully realize this is the least effective use for MC, just trying to make a point...and the point is there are far better and more attractive ways to entice the community to spend $ on this game than yet another MC discount on Cbill mechs).

You are possibly right - unfortunately I don't have access to the sales data PGI do so I can't prove or disprove your point. But it is a good point. Unfortunately consumers as a whole rarely follow best spending practice...

Edit: also how about those who are just a few MC off their last chassis - I know I would be tempted to buy a small MC package to finish off a set of mechs

Edited by PhoenixNMGLB, 20 November 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[PhoenixNMGLB]

As I have said in a previous post I am sure PGI have a good idea of the spending habits of their customer base. Like every business decision this is a simple cost vs reward gamble.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Please people - lets stop feeding the troll

[YUyahoo]

Shar Wolf, on 20 November 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

Please people - lets stop feeding the troll

Ok Shar Wolf don't worry I won't feed you

No one is actually trolling here, we are having a reasonable discussion and expressing our opinions without any name calling or insults. There is no anger or rage here, please don't try to turn this into something it isn't.

Edited by YUyahoo, 20 November 2014 - 12:35 PM.

[PhoenixNMGLB]

My apologies - I was just enjoying a discussion on business theory, no intention to offend.