21 replies to this topic

[DEMAX51]

The only way LRMs are even remotely useful right now is if they're being boated, and I think a lot of people hate it. For me, I'd just like to get to a point where a single LRM10-20, or 2/3 LRM 5s is actually worth taking as a Support weapon.

If they buffed LRMs such that:

• They did more damage per missile
  
• Had a slightly-faster travel time
  
• (Perhaps) Had a slightly-longer range

While at the same time Nerfing them such that:

• They had much stronger Ghost Heat penalties for any salvo of more than 20 missiles
  
• The Ghost Heat penalties were intuitive, such that for every 5 missiles over 20 that are fired, additional heat is applied.

I think we might finally get to a point where boating them isn't the only way to use them.

Thoughts?

[Zetrein]

Two problems. First, the ghost heat could be gotten around via chain-fire, negating your nerf. I've noticed that many LRM boats already use chain fire.

Second, LRM boats are kinda canon. Mechs like the Catapult and Trebuchet were built specifically for that role, while others have variants built for it (the Hunchback 4J and Stalker 3H come to mind).

[Joseph Mallan]

DEMAX51, on 19 November 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

The only way LRMs are even remotely useful right now is if they're being boated, and I think a lot of people hate it. For me, I'd just like to get to a point where a single LRM10-20, or 2/3 LRM 5s is actually worth taking as a Support weapon.

If they buffed LRMs such that:

• They did more damage per missile
  
• Had a slightly-faster travel time
  
• (Perhaps) Had a slightly-longer range

While at the same time Nerfing them such that:

• They had much stronger Ghost Heat penalties for any salvo of more than 20 missiles
  
• The Ghost Heat penalties were intuitive, such that for every 5 missiles over 20 that are fired, additional heat is applied.

I think we might finally get to a point where boating them isn't the only way to use them.


Thoughts?

Archers, Crusaders, Longbow, And other mechs with more than 20 tubes would be unfairly punished.

[AlmightyAeng]

DEMAX,

I don't agree. Right now, LRM's are effective, when boated, by yourself.

10-30 is effective if you have mechs working in conjunction with TAG or NARC.

If we buffed/nerfed them in that way then teams working to employ NARC properly are going to end up being powerful enough to get nerfed right back down again.

[DEMAX51]

Zetrein, on 19 November 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

Two problems. First, the ghost heat could be gotten around via chain-fire, negating your nerf. I've noticed that many LRM boats already use chain fire.

Second, LRM boats are kinda canon. Mechs like the Catapult and Trebuchet were built specifically for that role, while others have variants built for it (the Hunchback 4J and Stalker 3H come to mind).

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Archers, Crusaders, Longbow, And other mechs with more than 20 tubes would be unfairly punished.

Well, obviously, as is the current case with the Catapult-A1, those 'Mechs could be given quirks to reduce missile heat. And I'm fine with people chain-firing them to get around Ghost Heat, as that still gives the target a bit more time to get to cover before the second salvo gets there. Chain fire also allows AMS to shoot down more of them.

Ghost Badger, on 19 November 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

DEMAX,

I don't agree. Right now, LRM's are effective, when boated, by yourself.

10-30 is effective if you have mechs working in conjunction with TAG or NARC.

If we buffed/nerfed them in that way then teams working to employ NARC properly are going to end up being powerful enough to get nerfed right back down again.

So then slightly reduce NARC duration? That's not a problem that can't be solved.

Edited by DEMAX51, 19 November 2014 - 12:12 PM.

[Zetrein]

DEMAX51, on 19 November 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

Well, obviously, as is the current case with the Catapult-A1, those 'Mechs could be given quirks to reduce missile heat. And I'm fine with people chain-firing them to get around Ghost Heat, as that still gives the target a bit more time to get to cover before the second salvo gets there.

So the mechs that you would be boating LRMs on would get quirks to negate the ghost heat meant to balance LRM boats.

Edited by Zetrein, 19 November 2014 - 12:13 PM.

[DEMAX51]

Zetrein, on 19 November 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

So the mechs that you would be boating LRMs on would get quirks to negate the ghost heat meant to balance LRM boats.

Not "negate," but lessen. There's a distinction there. Maybe allow them to fire salvos of 30 missiles without ghost heat, but after that it ramps up again.

[Haxburch]

LRM is the most hated waponsystem in game ... the last what it need its a buff ! A lot want a nerf .
I would say its ok for now dont touch it!

Edited by Haxburch, 19 November 2014 - 12:21 PM.

[bender316]

They need to make indirect fire tag or narc only.
Then maybe look at a buff for direct fire.

Right now there to just to many sitting back where it save and waiting for doritos to show up on there screen.

[DEMAX51]

Haxburch, on 19 November 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

LRM is the most hated waponsystem in game ... the last what it need its a buff ! A lot want a nerf .
I would say its ok for now dont touch it!

LRMs are the most divisive weapon system in the game. Generally speaking, newer/poorer players hate them, while more experienced/better players don't use them and don't have issues on the receiving end.

Something clearly needs to be done about them.

[Lyoto Machida]

You want less LRMs? If we have to keep ghost heat, impose ghost heat on any tubes in excess of the stock loadout...apply this to SRMs as well.

If the mech comes with 20 tubes and you throw 60 on there, ghost heat is applied to the additional 40. Find a way to do this for ACs and lasers as well.

Otherwise, get rid of ghost heat.

Zetrein, on 19 November 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

So the mechs that you would be boating LRMs on would get quirks to negate the ghost heat meant to balance LRM boats.

This.

[Haxburch]

DEMAX51, on 19 November 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

LRMs are the most divisive weapon system in the game. Generally speaking, newer/poorer players hate them, while more experienced/better players don't use them and don't have issues on the receiving end.

Something clearly needs to be done about them.

NO ! Just because you say is it not the truth ... and there are not ongly newer and poor players. There is evry day a new thread about stupid LRMs .

Edited by Haxburch, 19 November 2014 - 12:30 PM.

[terrycloth]

I hate gauss rifles a lot more than I hate LRMs.

Lots of people hate gauss rifles a lot. I think they beat LRMs as the most hated weapon system.

[Pjwned]

Can't say I agree with any of those ideas, especially not for increased ghost heat on large salvos.

[DEMAX51]

terrycloth, on 19 November 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

I hate gauss rifles a lot more than I hate LRMs.

Lots of people hate gauss rifles a lot. I think they beat LRMs as the most hated weapon system.

Irrelevant.

Pjwned, on 19 November 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

Can't say I agree with any of those ideas, especially not for increased ghost heat on large salvos.

Why?

[Kensaisama]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Archers, Crusaders, Longbow, And other mechs with more than 20 tubes would be unfairly punished.

I believe he is saying if you fire more than 20 tubes worth of missiles at once you would get your penalties, so your Archer which comes with 2 LRM20 racks fires all 40 tubes in one salvo would get the penalty, where as if fired one rack at a time (chain fire) it would not. At least thats what I am getting out of it.

[Andi Nagasia]

i think it would be nice to see Line-Of-Sight(LOS) bonuses,
this would lessen the impact of those cowering behind lines and spamming LRMs,
wail also giving those who use LRMs as Support a boost they need for Competitive play,

Spread
10%ish decrease in spread with LOS,
10%ish Increase in spread without LOS,
Damage
10%ish Increase in Damage with LOS,
10%ish decrease in Damage without LOS,
Speed
10%ish Increase in Speed with LOS,
10%ish decrease in speed without LOS,

i have a Feature suggestion topic where just this is discussed and can be voted on,
(Lrm, Liberation Radar Munitions! Over / Under Powered?)

[DEMAX51]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 November 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

i think it would be nice to see Line-Of-Sight(LOS) bonuses,
this would lessen the impact of those cowering behind lines and spamming LRMs,
wail also giving those who use LRMs as Support a boost they need for Competitive play,

Spread
10%ish decrease in spread with LOS,
10%ish Increase in spread without LOS,
Damage
10%ish Increase in Damage with LOS,
10%ish decrease in Damage without LOS,
Speed
10%ish Increase in Speed with LOS,
10%ish decrease in speed without LOS,

i have a Feature suggestion topic where just this is discussed and can be voted on,
(Lrm, Liberation Radar Munitions! Over / Under Powered?)

Also decent suggestions, but I'm not even touching the Indirect vs Direct fire issues that exist.

Really, all I'm driving at is that mixed-builds with a small numbers of LRMs are virtually non-existent and not very useful, and I'd like that to change.

Edited by DEMAX51, 19 November 2014 - 01:04 PM.

[Khobai]

Indirect LRMs are the problem

nerf indirect LRMs but buff direct LRMs and artemis

[bluepiglet]

I have lost faith in PGI on this LRM balancing thing. How about a simple removal?