57 replies to this topic

[Davegt27]

Quote

Posted Today, 09:07 AM
Decent thread goal but I don't think you really put in anywhere near enough effort to actually lay things out.

A truly great thread that is worthy of sticky is needed. One that introduces all the factions. Lays out the brief history of what gets us to the clan invasion in 3050.

Then lists all of the various websites, teamspeaks and mumbles for each faction and the public ones that the mercs and other pick up groups use.

That way players who haven't interacted with the faction they play to choose know where to go to find their "side".

Beyond that I think a quick FAQ of the basic rules for forming a drop deck would be a good inclusion.

***

As for this thread. No CW will not be solo friendly. It will not exclude anyone but its going to be nothing like public solo queue which is designed from the group up to protect players and give them decent matches where they are of similar skill level to everyone else.

CW will not be doing that. If you are interested in CW you should either be interested in playing:
-a more organized brand of MWO match, where people are really concerned about winning above all else.

-a tougher brand of MWO match, if you want to know just how good/bad you really are at MWO, CW will tell you because you will end of facing at times the best of the best units in their full ultra organized 12-mans.

-MWO with more on the line, yes its just a map, but to a lot of people who have been around these factions for 30 years its a bit more than that. People do care about winning even in endless arena. In CW people will care a lot more. Losing planets is going to burn. Losing planets and seeing the name of a unit that stomped you a couple of times on that planet is going to really burn. CW is MWO with a lot more on the line.

If none of that sounds fun and you have hated whatever experience you've had with the group queue...

CW is not for you. If you feel like trying it, or think you might change your mind. It will be there and you can. But all signs point to you're better off leaving it be until such a time that PGI can some up with a way to within that spirit of gameplay provide some kind of garden for the less tryhard, less skilled and less competitive players. That just isn't a thing that will exist in December.

Ok

Thanks for that

Still need a bit more info for part 2

But to bottom line things each unit/units need mechs/people shooting at the bad guys

In the solo area that's what you have, some are good some are bad, some are new some are founders

This thread is mostly what I (A Pug) need/and want to get involved in CW

Part 1 I need a little bit of back ground (but keep it short)

Part 2?? But probably a little more info and in in its simplest form how will CW work (short and sweet)

Part 3 what us pugs need and want (wanting does not mean we will get it)

Part 4 are you having fun or can it be fun for a pug getting involved with CW

davegt27

[Revorn]

Well, as a PUG i meet Premades since CB, and as much i like the premade-free PUG-games atm, i will also enjoy to meet the Premades again in CW, where they deserve to be the strong ones.

[Punkass]

Davegt27, on 21 November 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:

Ok Community warfare for us pugs (short for pick-up-group players) also called new people

Part 1
First let’s lay some ground work

You like Mech Warrior Online (MWO) but you’re not married to the game
You sort of understand that MMO is based on the Battle Tech table top game
(I am old and we called Monopoly a table top game and Battle Tech would be a book case game)

Battle Tech games, books and computer games are what is called the battle tech universe

In this galaxy of war we have two sides and three areas


Areas
Known space called the inner sphere
The periphery (outside of the control of the major houses)
And beyond the periphery

Sides

Side A:
The inner sphere ruled and controlled by major houses (like nations for lack of a better term)
These inner sphere houses have been having on again off again wars


Side B:
The "Clans" also major houses from beyond the periphery


Side C: “Mercenaries” these are not loyal to any one side or house. Mercenaries are fighters but fight for whom ever pays

Side D:
Militia part time warriors not sure if the clans have an equivalent


Units
Under sides comes units, not sure on the size
But logically they would be equivalent to a Company/Wing size and smaller
The smallest would be you the single player


Definition:
Community Warfare is a group of people participating in a game for fun where they take up a roles that mimics real world or fantasy warfare.

When I was a kid before PC computers we would play Army or Cowboys and Indians
Well we were having community warfare

Later some people played table top games like the "Game of Life" or "Risk" a more complex tabletop games would be "Star Fleet Battles" and "Battle Tech"

End of part one

HTH
Davegt27

feel free to edit correct rewrite and or add part 2

As a pug or a noobie, there's only one thing you need to know about CW: You're not the target audience.

[Hoax415]

Davegt27, on 21 November 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

This thread is mostly what I (A Pug) need/and want to get involved in CW

Part 2?? But probably a little more info and in in its simplest form how will CW work (short and sweet)

Part 3 what us pugs need and want (wanting does not mean we will get it)

Part 4 are you having fun or can it be fun for a pug getting involved with CW

That was really hard to read for me personally.

How will CW work?

You join. You pick a faction. You pick a contract length from that faction. Where you can fight is based on which faction you pick.

You pick an eligible planet. You queue up. You get put into a team but not like solo queue. You get put into a "group" like group queue made up of other people who are queue'ing up at same time as you on same faction as you. Those people might be way above or way below your skill level. There is no elo in CW.

Those people will probably often also be groups from a unit on comms together. That's what CW is mainly about. You should definitely accept and expect that your opponents will be grouped together from some unit and on comms. Or at least their 12 will have 1 or more smaller groups.

THIS IS NOT SOLO QUEUE. THERE IS NO SOLO QUEUE IN CW.

So eventually you have a full group of 12 made by the CW queue system. Then you drop and play.

You don't play with just one mech. Before you can hit drop you had to select/build your "drop deck".

DROP DECKS:
-You pick 4 mechs. You must own them or you can use trials.
-The only limitations on which 4 mechs is that the total tonnage can't be over 240 or under 140.
-The other limitation is if you are on a clan-contract all IS mechs are locked out in CW. If you are on an IS-contract all Clan mechs are locked out in CW. This is CW only. Nothing from CW affects normal queues.
-No Faction allows players to mix Clan and IS mechs on the same team.

So you drop and you play a new game mode. Where you get 3 respawns each. So its 48v48 total. Winning helps your faction losing hurts your faction.

That's CW.

Does that answer part 2 for you?

If it does please re-state part 3 and 4. I'm not sure what those are about and I'm not sure why they are important to a information post about CW for public solo queue players. They also sound highly subjective instead of factual.

Edited by Hoax415, 21 November 2014 - 01:52 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Davegt27, on 21 November 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:

Ok Community warfare for us pugs (short for pick-up-group players) also called new people

Part 1
First let’s lay some ground work

You like Mech Warrior Online (MWO) but you’re not married to the game
You sort of understand that MMO is based on the Battle Tech table top game
(I am old and we called Monopoly a table top game and Battle Tech would be a book case game)

Battle Tech games, books and computer games are what is called the battle tech universe

In this galaxy of war we have two sides and three areas


Areas
Known space called the inner sphere
The periphery (outside of the control of the major houses)
And beyond the periphery

Sides

Side A:
The inner sphere ruled and controlled by major houses (like nations for lack of a better term)
These inner sphere houses have been having on again off again wars


Side B:
The "Clans" also major houses from beyond the periphery


Side C: “Mercenaries” these are not loyal to any one side or house. Mercenaries are fighters but fight for whom ever pays

Side D:
Militia part time warriors not sure if the clans have an equivalent


Units
Under sides comes units, not sure on the size
But logically they would be equivalent to a Company/Wing size and smaller
The smallest would be you the single player


Definition:
Community Warfare is a group of people participating in a game for fun where they take up a roles that mimics real world or fantasy warfare.

When I was a kid before PC computers we would play Army or Cowboys and Indians
Well we were having community warfare

Later some people played table top games like the "Game of Life" or "Risk" a more complex tabletop games would be "Star Fleet Battles" and "Battle Tech"

End of part one

HTH
Davegt27

feel free to edit correct rewrite and or add part 2

Forgot to add the following:

• Play around 400-600 matches and save every C-bill because your going to need around 100 million C-bills.
  
• Buy 4 variants of the same mech and that mech must weigh a minimum of 35 tons or a maximum weight of 60 tons, preferable IS mechs since they are generally cheaper. This is you can master the chassis and be able stay within the minimum and maximum drop weight. 4 variants of the same mech is the cheapest and fastest option for this because you will need at least 3 unique variants in order to master that mech. This should run you about 40 million C-bills to buy and outfit all variants with the required weapons and equipment.
  
• Buy a full set of modules for each mech. Radar Depredation, Advanced Seismic and 2 weapons modules of your choice for each mech is a good choice. This will be about 15 million per mech or a 60 million C-bill investment.

At this point your are ready to get involved competitively with CW.

Alternatively, you can either buy any combination of Clan Wave 1, Clan Wave 2 or Resistance Pack as long as you are at least buying the second level of the package. This will give you enough mechs of the proper weight to participate in CW. The Clan mechs will be are higher cash price but generally will require less C-bills to outfit and customize while the IS mechs can get pretty expensive from a C-bill standpoint as you need to buy XL engines, endosteel and DHS upgrades. In either case you will still need 60 million C-bills for modules so your cash purchase at most saves you 40 million C-bills.

[Kirkland Langue]

As Pugger participation in CW goes, so goes MWO. Mark my words on that.

[Triordinant]

Based on PGI's statements on it, I've always assumed that CW was a third "hardcore" queue because there's no Elo matchmaking at all there. The biggest, most organized, most competitive and best-trained groups (aka the guys almost no one else wants to play with) will be playing there with no Elo filtering so it's definitely not the most recommended place for a solo player. In fact, I predict the top teams will try to field only 12-mans if they can because when two top-tier comp teams clash the winner is more likely to be the team with the fewer soloists or no soloists at all.

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out why soloists get to fight alongside Units there (to fill in for 11-mans?) but I figure most soloists who "try it out" will eventually leave as a result of either being instakilled repeatedly by the enemy team or derided by their own team. If the plan is to have a third queue played by a few hundred highly competitive players mostly from big organized Units, then that will happen naturally in CW as it's been defined so far.

However, if the plan is to have the majority of MWO players actually participate in CW, the design as revealed so far isn't going to work -there will have to be a CW solo queue. I've already suggested over the past couple of months that Invasion Conflicts could be fought by groups and Border Conflicts could be fought by soloists (those conflicts are defined by Paul Inouye here). PGI could even create a third kind of conflict and have soloists fight those, but it would have to be just as meaningful or no soloist will bother since it won't be much different from the current solo queue.

[Bilbo]

Triordinant, on 21 November 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Based on PGI's statements on it, I've always assumed that CW was a third "hardcore" queue because there's no Elo matchmaking at all there. The biggest, most organized, most competitive and best-trained groups (aka the guys almost no one else wants to play with) will be playing there with no Elo filtering so it's definitely not the most recommended place for a solo player. In fact, I predict the top teams will try to field only 12-mans if they can because when two top-tier comp teams clash the winner is more likely to be the team with the fewer soloists or no soloists at all.

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out why soloists get to fight alongside Units there (to fill in for 11-mans?) but I figure most soloists who "try it out" will eventually leave as a result of either being instakilled repeatedly by the enemy team or derided by their own team. If the plan is to have a third queue played by a few hundred highly competitive players mostly from big organized Units, then that will happen naturally in CW as it's been defined so far.

However, if the plan is to have the majority of MWO players actually participate in CW, the design as revealed so far isn't going to work -there will have to be a CW solo queue. I've already suggested over the past couple of months that Invasion Conflicts could be fought by groups and Border Conflicts could be fought by soloists (those conflicts are defined by Paul Inouye here). PGI could even create a third kind of conflict and have soloists fight those, but it would have to be just as meaningful or no soloist will bother since it won't be much different from the current solo queue.

Soloists are included because there will not be enough of these full 12-man teams you speak of to keep the CW queues moving. Simple as that.

[Triordinant]

Bilbo, on 21 November 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

Soloists are included because there will not be enough of these full 12-man teams you speak of to keep the CW queues moving. Simple as that.

...and if the CW plan remains as it is, most soloists will leave CW, just like I said.

[Bilbo]

Triordinant, on 21 November 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

...and if the CW plan remains as it is, most soloists will leave CW, just like I said.

I imagine those willing to go there in the first place aren't as easily scared off as you assume. We'll see when the time comes though.

Edited by Bilbo, 21 November 2014 - 02:51 PM.

[Triordinant]

Bilbo, on 21 November 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

I imagine those willing to go there in the first place aren't as easily scared off as you assume. We'll see when the time comes though.

I'm assuming the majority of soloists who give CW a try will do so because it's new and different (and some will not be up to speed on what to expect). The few intrepid ones you speak of have an even chance of staying, but there may not be enough of them to sustain CW. As you said, we'll see.

Maybe PGI wants to see how CW fares with their current formula before deciding on a solo queue for CW. It took them 2 years to give us a solo queue in the normal non-CW universe (which they are now touting as a success) so I can't say how long the wait and see will take.

[Davegt27]

Thanks Hoax415 that answers a few questions about the mechanics of CW

Drake I have Wins / Losses 2,712 / 2,663 = 5373 drops since June when I started

I don't understand why I need 4 of each Mech?

I retired back in Jan so c-bills are not a problem for me it only took 6 days to get all 3 of my TWs' into master


It took about 100 mil to kit them out which I already replaced the c-bills (I can play all day and night if I want no big)

Judging from the tone of answers’ on this thread you guys neither want nor need us pugs' which is fine

I am in this for the fun of it

Carry on

[Bilbo]

Davegt27, on 21 November 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

Thanks Hoax415 that answers a few questions about the mechanics of CW

Drake I have Wins / Losses 2,712 / 2,663 = 5373 drops since June when I started

I don't understand why I need 4 of each Mech?

I retired back in Jan so c-bills are not a problem for me it only took 6 days to get all 3 of my TWs' into master


It took about 100 mil to kit them out which I already replaced the c-bills (I can play all day and night if I want no big)

Judging from the tone of answers’ on this thread you guys neither want nor need us pugs' which is fine

I am in this for the fun of it

Carry on

You don't need 4 of each. You need 4 whose total tonnage is at or below 240. You have to bring 4 mechs to the battle. They may not want us Pugs but they will find soon enough they need us, so you might as well give it a shot when it rolls out if you are interested. Fun is subjective, and you might have it whether they like it or not.

[Punkass]

Davegt27, on 21 November 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

Thanks Hoax415 that answers a few questions about the mechanics of CW

Drake I have Wins / Losses 2,712 / 2,663 = 5373 drops since June when I started

I don't understand why I need 4 of each Mech?

I retired back in Jan so c-bills are not a problem for me it only took 6 days to get all 3 of my TWs' into master


It took about 100 mil to kit them out which I already replaced the c-bills (I can play all day and night if I want no big)

Judging from the tone of answers’ on this thread you guys neither want nor need us pugs' which is fine

I am in this for the fun of it

Carry on

Look, it's not that I don't want to need pugs, it's that CW was not developed for the casual player in mind. As it is, it's going to be a playground for the 12 man try-hards, and there aren't any plans at the moment to make it more pug friendly. I don't think that's really the right way to develop a new module of game play, especially one that's been hotly anticipated since early open beta.

[Hoax415]

Its been made more and more pug/casual friendly with every announcement.

They've reduced the shortest contracts by 75%.

They changed the rule that you needed to form a 12-man to attack to anyone can drop solo attacker or defender.

They changed the system from a official defender unit who got special priority to defend a given world to a FFA so that solos aren't lower priority when queuing up.

I believe there was a time when you needed a minimum amount of players in your unit for it to be CW eligible. That is no longer the case.

But by its very nature CW, even if it were merely the EXACT SAME THING as normal MWO but with a "faction leaderboard" aka "a map".

It would be more tryhard and more serious and less casual.

That's what leaderboards or ranked play means and does.

I'm not sure what is so confounding for people about this.

Edited by Hoax415, 21 November 2014 - 03:59 PM.

[Impyrium]

There's a really frustrating attitude going around here, where players assume that everything in a game must be made to suit them specifically no matter what. Unfortunately, it's an attitude I see in nearly every game forum when the developer introduces a feature that might not benefit a certain player group. Whether if it's because they feel left out, or maybe they're just over-entitled, who knows.

But the point of CW is to provide for those that really haven't had any focus yet; the lore guys, the competitive players, those that wanted a mode that wasn't padded with feather pillows.

Not everything in a game has to suit you, and sometimes you have to step back and allow something that others will enjoy. Because often it can't be both ways.

Edited by AUSwarrior24, 21 November 2014 - 04:14 PM.

[F4T 4L]

AUSwarrior24, on 21 November 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

There's a really frustrating attitude going around here, where players assume that everything in a game must be made to suit them specifically no matter what. Unfortunately, it's an attitude I see in nearly every game forum when the developer introduces a feature that might not benefit a certain player group. Whether if it's because they feel left out, or maybe they're just over-entitled, who knows.

But the point of CW is to provide for those that really haven't had any focus yet; the lore guys, the competitive players, those that wanted a mode that wasn't padded with feature pillows.

Not everything in a game has to suit you, and sometimes you have to step back and allow something that others will enjoy. Because often it can't be both ways.

Way to go ahead and follow the pattern you just criticised. +100000 points.

[PYR0MANCER]

Willard Phule, on 21 November 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

Yeah.

People that don't want to join organized units, for whatever reason, are simply trash. Why haven't these losers figured out that the end-all, be-all of MW:O is to be part of a group? Noone wants those stupid solo players here. They should just all leave and find another game to play.

Join a group or get out!

Seriously..?


I understand not wanting to be called a 'tryhard' and rediculed for being competitive... I didn't like that post too much myself... But this game won;t survive on the competitive teams alone...


If you get right down to the nitty gritty of the whole issue, which I am about to (in my opinion anyway)...


It's all about the lack of ingame voip...


Stop seperating ourselves between competitive players and pugs...


Do you really think there would be this much animosity about having a 2 or maybe even 3 or 4 man team join in the solo queue if EVERYONE on the team could talk over voice..?


I for one, highly doubt there would be...


The lack of voip built into the game has put us at each others throats and it is bad for the game... We need voip built into the game and we need it yesterday... It's not the starting gameplay elements alone that are running off the new people, it's that and a complete lack of any way to communicate with anyone else playing the game, whether it's in a lobby or in the game itself... If a team could truly be a team and communicate at the very least ingame, new players would stay longer and learn faster... Let me say it again...


It's not the starting gameplay elements alone that are running off the new people, it's that and a complete lack of any way to communicate with anyone else playing the game, whether it's in a lobby or in the game itself... If a team could truly be a team and communicate at the very least ingame, new players would stay longer and learn faster...


Stop hating the other guy playing when the solution to the problem is in, and always has been in, the hands of the people making the game...

[F4T 4L]

Tyros the Pyromancer, on 21 November 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

Seriously..?


I understand not wanting to be called a 'tryhard' and rediculed for being competitive... I didn't like that post too much myself... But this game won;t survive on the competitive teams alone...


If you get right down to the nitty gritty of the whole issue, which I am about to (in my opinion anyway)...


It's all about the lack of ingame voip...


Stop seperating ourselves between competitive players and pugs...


Do you really think there would be this much animosity about having a 2 or maybe even 3 or 4 man team join in the solo queue if EVERYONE on the team could talk over voice..?


I for one, highly doubt there would be...


The lack of voip built into the game has put us at each others throats and it is bad for the game... We need voip built into the game and we need it yesterday... It's not the starting gameplay elements alone that are running off the new people, it's that and a complete lack of any way to communicate with anyone else playing the game, whether it's in a lobby or in the game itself... If a team could truly be a team and communicate at the very least ingame, new players would stay longer and learn faster... Let me say it again...


It's not the starting gameplay elements alone that are running off the new people, it's that and a complete lack of any way to communicate with anyone else playing the game, whether it's in a lobby or in the game itself... If a team could truly be a team and communicate at the very least ingame, new players would stay longer and learn faster...


Stop hating the other guy playing when the solution to the problem is in, and always has been in, the hands of the people making the game...

If you seriously think I want to spend my evenings, on comms, talking to 11 numb nuts, you're miles off.

Pretty sure I'm not alone in that.

Edit to clarify.

Edited by F4T 4L, 21 November 2014 - 04:33 PM.

[PYR0MANCER]

F4T 4L, on 21 November 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

If you seriously think I want to spend my evenings, on comms, talking to 11 numb nuts, you're miles off.

Pretty sure I'm not alone in that.

Edit to clarify.

Then don't... I'm not telling you that you absolutely HAVE to listen or talk to them...


But just because you don't want to doesn't mean others feel the same way...


Are there morons out there..? Most ceratinly yes.. Will it be a constant 11 of them on every team you get on..? Most certainly not...


Maybe you will just turn it off...
Maybe you will mute the ones that get on your nerves and leave the rest on...
Maybe you will deal with it and leave most everyone on cause you aren't that easily aggrevated by someone elses lack of... whatever they are lacking of...


So be it... I am not giving you a hard time or saying 'there should be no way at all to mute anyone and everyone must listen to voice or turn their sound off completely'... I would be a jerk if I had that attitude...


You can't tell me that you won't play a multiplayer game online if voice is available in it... You just exercise your option to turn it off or mute the ones you don't know or whatever... Why should this game be any different...