94 replies to this topic

[Odins Fist]

Jesus DIED for me, on 02 December 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

It would be nice if you would post in the future, if you get to it, pics for such occasions with not only minimal scan but with maximum maxed out

Here you go Phenom II x6 1100-Thuban clocked to 4.2 GHZ with EVGA GTX 680 Sig-2.
Both The CPU and GPU on water cooling. Video settings mostly High settings (particles low). MAP was Mining Collective, had Christmas Lights, Plasma Ball and Glowing Pumpkin as Cockpit items to add to lighting for test... LOL

LOOK at the MAX temps, Compare MIN to MAX..
Not bad for a setup originally designed ONLY for a CPU to be on the Loop.

I Dropped right out of game and took the screenshot.



EDIT : Disregard the TMPIN2 reading, it's a ghost reading, not valid.

CPU Max: 39*C (102*F)
GPU Max: 52*C (125*F)

Edited by Odins Fist, 02 December 2014 - 09:24 PM.

[MechWarrior4172571]

Odins Fist, on 02 December 2014 - 09:10 PM, said:

Here you go Phenom II x6 1100-Thuban clocked to 4.2 GHZ with EVGA GTX 680 Sig-2.
Both The CPU and GPU on water cooling. Video settings mostly High settings (particles low). MAP was Mining Collective, had Christmas Lights, Plasma Ball and Glowing Pumpkin as Cockpit items to add to lighting for test... LOL

LOOK at the MAX temps, Compare MIN to MAX..
Not bad for a setup originally designed ONLY for a CPU to be on the Loop.

I Dropped right out of game and took the screenshot.

...[ ]...

EDIT : Disregard the TMPIN2 reading, it's a ghost reading, not valid.

CPU Max: 39*C (102*F)
GPU Max: 52*C (125*F)

Very nice temps--thanks for the pic.

I am surprised you are not trying to overclock it further with higher voltage. I am sure you have your reservations but Thubans are rated at max 1.55V, if I remember correctly, and right now, I have mine at (actual draw Voltage)1.480V @idle and 1.504V @max draw during heavy activity--this is with BIOS set at 1.375V (for the CPU VCORE). I just got my rig overclocked to 4 GHz from 3.2 GHz stock (AMD Phenom II 1090T x6 (Thuban)) but I had to make hard choices and completely disable 3 of the 6 cores in order to give me the needed overhead to overclock this processor on air to this frequency. With 6 cores I could only overclock it stable on air to 3.8GHz. Proved to be stable though at 4.0GHz by Furmark cpu burnin plugin and I didn't have to change fans to high settings (not summer yet, though) and so they are whirring at low speed as before the overclock. Anyway, to make the long story short, I went from iffy 20s fps to solid 30s and 40s fps in battles due to this move and this is with NVidia GTX 970 with all video settings set to "low" and "off" both at DirectX 9 and DirectX11.

I am really second guessing my decision to buy GTX 970 at this point--didn't give me the oomph I expected and mwo was one of the targets on the list. I actually got fps fluctuations with this card vs. solid performing 50fps overclocked GTX 465 (both on low visual settings everything) and so the performance actually got worse (from stable fps point of view). My GTX 465 was a nice heater for the winter too--I could have waited for the spring of 2015 to see the arrival of the yet coming 20nm Maxwell. Oh well. It's just that MWO performance is a shocker to me... and I am still shocked at it.

[Smokeyjedi]

Jesus DIED for me, on 03 December 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

Very nice temps--thanks for the pic.

I am surprised you are not trying to overclock it further with higher voltage. I am sure you have your reservations but Thubans are rated at max 1.55V, if I remember correctly, and right now, I have mine at (actual draw Voltage)1.480V @idle and 1.504V @max draw during heavy activity--this is with BIOS set at 1.375V (for the CPU VCORE). I just got my rig overclocked to 4 GHz from 3.2 GHz stock (AMD Phenom II 1090T x6 (Thuban)) but I had to make hard choices and completely disable 3 of the 6 cores in order to give me the needed overhead to overclock this processor on air to this frequency. With 6 cores I could only overclock it stable on air to 3.8GHz. Proved to be stable though at 4.0GHz by Furmark cpu burnin plugin and I didn't have to change fans to high settings (not summer yet, though) and so they are whirring at low speed as before the overclock. Anyway, to make the long story short, I went from iffy 20s fps to solid 30s and 40s fps in battles due to this move and this is with NVidia GTX 970 with all video settings set to "low" and "off" both at DirectX 9 and DirectX11.

I am really second guessing my decision to buy GTX 970 at this point--didn't give me the oomph I expected and mwo was one of the targets on the list. I actually got fps fluctuations with this card vs. solid performing 50fps overclocked GTX 465 (both on low visual settings everything) and so the performance actually got worse (from stable fps point of view). My GTX 465 was a nice heater for the winter too--I could have waited for the spring of 2015 to see the arrival of the yet coming 20nm Maxwell. Oh well. It's just that MWO performance is a shocker to me... and I am still shocked at it.

I would personally run no less than 4 of those beauty thuban cores.......see what clocks you can stabilize with 4 cores running........probably hit that minimum FPS really hard with one more core........while not loosing max fps by much

[Thorqemada]

I tested MWO without VSync and got on a fresh System (bcs my USB Driver was unrestorable borked) about 45 to 110 FPS at 1920x1200 Dx11 Very High (Glass, Blur, Depth of Field and Filmgrain = Off - Win7 x64 FX8350 stock + R9 280X Vapor-X stock).

The avg FPS must be close to 70...

[Iqfish]

Odins Fist, on 01 December 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

You sir are CORRECT..!!

A proper custom water loop will smoke anything, exactly.

But it costs incredibly much and is difficult to install for someone who does not even know what CPU to pick.

And we were talking about 80$ AiO solutions.

Bill Lumbar, on 01 December 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

Wall of text snip

75C is a good temperature for a i7 4770K at 4,8Ghz on air cooling (and in a silenced case).
If you are really a computer salesman/technician, you will know this

Edited by Iqfish, 03 December 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[Odins Fist]

Jesus DIED for me, on 03 December 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

Very nice temps--thanks for the pic.

I am surprised you are not trying to overclock it further with higher voltage. I am sure you have your reservations but Thubans are rated at max 1.55V.

4.2GHZ is rock solid safe with my 1100 Thuban, 4.27GHZ is solid and stable, and 4.3GHZ is the wall.

4.3GHZ is easily possible, but after 4.27GHZ on a Phenom II 1100 Thuban you won't see much in the way of performance boost, and you begin to get into dangerous territory for voltage, so it was never worth doing for me, you see I have (2) Asus 990-FX Motherboards, I was expecting the FX-Series to be worth the upgrade, I was wrong, and it never made any sense to buy the FX-CPUs, so I have gotten as much out of both systems that I could for as long as I could. The Intel build I was doing had to be postponed again, but I have everything I need Minus CPU, Mobo and SSD... I Already have another Pump, (2) Rads for the Loop, Case, PSU.. But bills are in the way again after some work on the house.

My Phenom II x6 1100-Thuban has been running at 4.27GHZ and 4.2GHZ depending on winter or summer for 3 years straight.. I wanted a good OC without risking too much in terms of OC, I found the sweet spot for the CPU, and also I listened a lot to what other people advised me when it came to the 1100 Thuban and just how much to OC it and exactly what works. On a side note, I got a really good binned CPU when I got my Thubans (I have 2).. Hit the jackpot.

To tell you the truth, I have ZERO issues running MWO at a Mixed bag of settings for Video with good Frame Rates.. As far as your Phenom II 1090-t goes, I wouldn't OC it past 4.1GHZ, you won't see any BIG difference between 4.1 and 4.2..

EDIT: I never disabled any Cores, and as a matter of fact on my Phenom II x4 960t, I unlocked a stable 5th core and run that at 4.13GHZ.. (5 core CPU LOL).. Truth.

Iqfish, on 03 December 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

A proper custom water loop will smoke anything, exactly.

But it costs incredibly much and is difficult to install for someone who does not even know what CPU to pick.

And we were talking about 80$ AiO solutions.

And for about 110$ you can a really decent All in one Watercooling setup (AiO)...
If it has decent fans you can even get rid of some noise if (PWM).

I was Air cool guy for a long time, then I went water cooling and i'm not going back.
The reduction in NOISE from fans alone was worth it to Me.

Edited by Odins Fist, 04 December 2014 - 04:30 PM.

[Iqfish]

Odins Fist, on 03 December 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

And for about 110$ you can a really decent All in one Watercooling setup (AiO)...
If it has decent fans you can even get rid of some noise if (PWM).

I was Air cool guy for a long time, then I went water cooling and i'm not going back.
The reduction in NOISE from fans alone was worth it to Me.

To be honest, after now going to High End Air Coolers who just don't make any sound, I would expect that from an AiO as well.

I bought a H100i back then and sent it back, because the pump noise was way too loud, the fans werent even the biggest problem.

[xWiredx]

I have an H105 and it's pretty quiet. My other fans... thankfully I have them on a controller.

[Catamount]

Iqfish, on 03 December 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

To be honest, after now going to High End Air Coolers who just don't make any sound, I would expect that from an AiO as well.

I bought a H100i back then and sent it back, because the pump noise was way too loud, the fans werent even the biggest problem.

Yeah if your pump was drowning out the Corsair jet engines then your unit was defective and then some. I had an original H100, replaced the two fans with a 4-fan push pull of Cougar CF-V12s, and not only had near silence but had half my case fans covered in the process.

[MechWarrior4172571]

Smokeyjedi, on 03 December 2014 - 03:11 AM, said:

I would personally run no less than 4 of those beauty thuban cores.......see what clocks you can stabilize with 4 cores running........probably hit that minimum FPS really hard with one more core........while not loosing max fps by much

Yeah, I actually went back to 3.8GHz 6 cores after a quck run at 4.0GHz@3cores. The system started to become flaky and even Windows Experience Index went down due to less cores available (for normal programs' calculations that can truly utilize all the cores). Doesn't seem to be worth it to go down to 3 cores from 6 cores and risk thermal instability at that too--all of that just for the sake of a 200Mhz OC jump. I just wanted to see how going to 4.0 would have affected mwo performance. I think I've gotten about 20 typical (more or less solid) fps increase by going from 3.4 to 3.8 GHz and now it's at least somewhat playable such that I don't constantly look at the fps counter by forgetting about it all together--it simply shows that 40+ fps is 'playable' and occasional dips into 30s is ugh.. 'tolerable' IF someone really likes mwo. If anybody is wondering whether to go AMD or Intel--go with Intel, especially if you are building a new system (Motherboard AND cpu)... my 2 cents. It's how fast the FIRST core/thread processes mow is what, it seems, sets the tone to how well your system would play mwo. The rest of the cores are insignificant for MWO--only the first and second core/thread really matters, so 8 core AMD is an overkill because it's not going to be utilized by the mwo (other programs might, like backing up computer with Acronis software can load all the cores to 100%).

[Flapdrol]

xWiredx, on 03 December 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

I have an H105 and it's pretty quiet. My other fans... thankfully I have them on a controller.

These kind of watercoolers are designed for performance though, not for silence.

If you put a low power fan on a "radiator" with densely packed fins you won't have a lot of airflow, severely limiting the cooling capacity. They're meant for high power fans, then you'll have a good flow with a big pressure drop over the fins, resulting in a nice turbulent flow over the fins, for maximum fins->air heat transfer. Turbulence means noise however.

Big aircoolers are usually designed for silence, in coolers like the mugen you'll see a good bit of room between the fins, and even channels between packs of fins, to keep the air moving. All to make the most of low power fans, and transfer a good bit of heat with airflow, compensating for lack of pressure drop/turbulence with lots of fin surface area. If you put powerful fans on those you'll get a lot of flow, but much of it will pass right trough with not much extra heat transfer.

Edited by Flapdrol, 04 December 2014 - 07:35 AM.

[xWiredx]

Flapdrol, on 04 December 2014 - 02:48 AM, said:

These kind of watercoolers are designed for performance though, not for silence.

If you put a low power fan on a "radiator" with densely packed fins you won't have a lot of airflow, severely limiting the cooling capacity. They're meant for high power fans, then you'll have a good flow with a big pressure drop over the fins, resulting in a nice turbulent flow over the fins, for maximum fins->air heat transfer. Turbulence means noise however.

Big aircoolers are usually designed for silence, in coolers like the mugen you'll see a good bit of room between the fins, and even channels between packs of fins, to keep the air moving. All to make the most of low power fans, and transfer a good bit of heat with airflow, compensating for lack of pressure drop/turbulence lots of fin surface area. If you put powerful fans on those you'll get a lot of flow, but much of it will pass right trough with not much extra heat transfer.

I can barely hear my HAF 932 sitting 2 feet away from me, packed with its 6 120mm fans (two of which are attached to my H105 in a pull configuration), 140mm fan, and 200mm fan. 5820K @ 4.1GhZ and never going above 54c while playing MWO. If I turn the fans on the controller back up (all 4 of which are side-panel, not on the H105), it is much louder and does not appear to drastically affect temperatures for either the CPU or GPU (top of 53c for the CPU).

If you need to be perfectly silent, you shouldn't be building a PC for performance with gaming in mind. Not sure why anybody is trying to discuss that. I was relating my noise to the noise experienced by a bad AIO.

[Flapdrol]

But if you get a gaming pc and you want it to be as quiet as possible you're better (and cheaper) off with a big aircooler.

If I were to run a 5820K and a H105 I'd run a much higher overclock, then have a couple high power fans on that would be controlled by the motherboard fancontrollers, almost all boards have a few of those (even my elcheapo H81 board), can set nice temp/speed curves in the bios.

[Odins Fist]

Lets not turn this into a Watercooling versus Aircooling debate.
We ALL know the reality of it, and what the inevitable outcome wll be.

Edited by Odins Fist, 04 December 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[AZA311]

Odins Fist, on 03 December 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

And for about 110$ you can a really decent All in one Watercooling setup (AiO)...
If it has decent fans you can even get rid of some noise if (PWM).

The whole cooling thing came from point that buying a decent AIO cooler (110$) cancels out any cost savings between an i5 and an i7 since you'll want to overclock the i5.

Therefore, an i7 is the better choice (higher base clock speed + hyperthreading + no need for aftermarket cooler)

No one has really commented on that aspect which I think a lot of us who want to upgrade from AMD to Intel want to hear.

[Smokeyjedi]

AZA311, on 05 December 2014 - 02:56 AM, said:

The whole cooling thing came from point that buying a decent AIO cooler (110$) cancels out any cost savings between an i5 and an i7 since you'll want to overclock the i5.

Therefore, an i7 is the better choice (higher base clock speed + hyperthreading + no need for aftermarket cooler)

No one has really commented on that aspect which I think a lot of us who want to upgrade from AMD to Intel want to hear.

Alas, The majority of us AMD users(that want to switch brands) bought 8 cores thinking @5ghz 8 cores would scream insanity...........
When I switch I will more than likely just go with I5 moderately overclocked on liquid + nice mobo.....leaving tasks that require 8 threads upto my thermo-nuclear fx @ 4860mhz (or if my room needs a 10degree temp increase ill just loop benchmarks....)

[Catamount]

AZA311, on 05 December 2014 - 02:56 AM, said:

The whole cooling thing came from point that buying a decent AIO cooler (110$) cancels out any cost savings between an i5 and an i7 since you'll want to overclock the i5.

Therefore, an i7 is the better choice (higher base clock speed + hyperthreading + no need for aftermarket cooler)

No one has really commented on that aspect which I think a lot of us who want to upgrade from AMD to Intel want to hear.

Getting an i7 does not negate overclocking. Hyperthreading's advantage maxes at ~30%, and is often more in the 10-20% range. In most gaming, especially, the advantage will be zero, since even the rare CPU-intensive games out there don't take advantage of more than four threads most of the time.

There are numerous situations where an i5 at 4.5 is going to match or overtake an i7 at 4 and that's assuming you can get 4ghz on stock cooling (Ivy could, does Haswell?).

For exclusively executing highly threaded workloads, I would consider an i7 on stock cooling to be about a wash with an i5, but no one except professionals who exclusively use one or a handful of software titles do only highly threaded work, so on the whole, I'd consider the OCed i5 to be vastly superior.

Of course, I use both now, and I enjoy having both. You don't need a $100 cooler to be in solid aftermarket territory. Hyper 212 EVOs are $30, and I've seen H80is as low as $70, and there's a whole spectrum in between (eg H55s are ~$50).

[xWiredx]

Speaking on experience with Sandy Bridge and Haswell overclocking, both generations exhibited a bias toward overclocking the i7s. You could usually squeek out an extra 100-200MhZ on the i7s due to the binning process.

Hyperthreading may help with MWO, but it doesn't on an i7 from what I can tell. i3 and mobile i5 users, on the other hand, do seem to benefit from it as long as they can keep their machines cool (so desktop i3 users are going to benefit more than the mobile i5 users).

Neither of these two performance-enhancing features will probably equal a better experience in MWO unless there are some pretty specific circumstances, so if there's a limited budget, I completely agree than a k-series i5 and an AIO would be a better choice than an i7 and a cheaper air cooler for this game.

[Odins Fist]

The term "Costs Savings" and "Intel" should never be used together..
If you're building an Intel system with a higher end Motherboard you're not going to have "Costs Savings"

You can build a really good "Intel" system on a Micro Atx Board like
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813157521 $99^.99
ASRock has good Intel boards, but their AMD stuff wasn't great at all.

But if you want to run with the Big Boys, then expect prices like these.. ROFL $339^.99
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813132247

I have everything I need for my Intel build, the pump, the loop, new rads, case, PSU, all I need to do is grab the CPU and Mobo, I always do that last anyway, but I got setback again a few months.

Let me tell ya, the term "Costs Savings" doesn't apply for the Mobo and CPU that I plan on getting..LOL

Edited by Odins Fist, 05 December 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[Bill Lumbar]

Iqfish, on 03 December 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

A proper custom water loop will smoke anything, exactly.

But it costs incredibly much and is difficult to install for someone who does not even know what CPU to pick.

And we were talking about 80$ AiO solutions.



75C is a good temperature for a i7 4770K at 4,8Ghz on air cooling (and in a silenced case).
If you are really a computer salesman/technician, you will know this

I am not a computer salesman, I am a quick learner that got tired of buying PC's at Worst buy and similar stores around 8 years ago after only buying one from them. I researched for about 2 months and then pulled the trigger on my first build with parts from the egg. 75C is a good temp for a CPU hey? I think my water cooling loop would disagree with your statement. My 7970 3gb rarely sees temps of 75C while playing MWO no less.