30 replies to this topic

[HARDKOR]

180XL, 2 MP 2 ML FTW. She's fast enough to pop back and forth behind the assaults while you provide them ECM and use them as cover.

[Artgathan]

There are no hitreg issues at speeds over 150 kph. There are hitreg issues in general though.

It was a long time ago that speed was capped at ~150 because there were hitreg issues at higher speeds. PGI then corrected these issues, and pushed the speed cap up to ~170kph. Now if you go >170, there will be hitreg issues, hence why we can't go over 170.

Bear in mind that using the engine formula, the Locust should be able to carry up to a ~225 Engine. Ever wonder why it was capped lower? I mean, if it's already breaking hitreg at 170, why stop there?

[KraftySOT]

Yes going faster than 150 causes hitreg issues.

This is why theres no masc, and no firemoth.

This has been said by Russ and crew MULTIPLE times just in the past 6 months.

[Clit Beastwood]

KraftySOT, on 25 November 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

Yes going faster than 150 causes hitreg issues.

This is why theres no masc, and no firemoth.

This has been said by Russ and crew MULTIPLE times just in the past 6 months.

It's 172 that causes trouble, not 150. That's why you're allowed to go 150 without speed tweak, and a max of 172 with it. It doesn't "break hsr ", it just exacerbates the issues that arise from a disparity between player pings as-is. The "problem" can be mitigated by leading a little bit.

[KraftySOT]

Fierostetz, on 25 November 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

It's 172 that causes trouble, not 150. That's why you're allowed to go 150 without speed tweak, and a max of 172 with it. It doesn't "break hsr ", it just exacerbates the issues that arise from a disparity between player pings as-is. The "problem" can be mitigated by leading a little bit.

Doh 172 is the correct answer.

[superteds]

you don't really make much savings with locusts anyway - if you shave off 1.5t from the engine for example you have to plug in another 1t of heatsinks. while this may get you an extra 1/2t of ammo, or another MG for the 1V, i'd much rather have the speed. Any slower puts you into firestarter/jenner territory, and you generally won't be beating them.

[Artgathan]

superteds, on 25 November 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

you don't really make much savings with locusts anyway - if you shave off 1.5t from the engine for example you have to plug in another 1t of heatsinks. while this may get you an extra 1/2t of ammo, or another MG for the 1V, i'd much rather have the speed. Any slower puts you into firestarter/jenner territory, and you generally won't be beating them.

All things considered, the difference between 150 kph and 170 kph works out a difference of 5.56 m/s. It's not going to be enough to save your bacon, unless you've detected the enemy while at the extreme edge of their weapon range. Consider that if you bump into the Jenner (150 kph) in your Locust (170 kph) at 250m, It'll take you 3.77 seconds to escape to 271m - out of range of their SRMs, but still within range of their Medium Lasers. To escape to 540m, it will take over 50 seconds (more than enough time to vaporize a Locust).

Speed in this game is overrated. Once you hit a certain threshold there's no real reason to continue upgrading - the only reason I take 180XL in my Locusts is for the Engine DHS coupled with the fact that it's the same weight as the 175. There's not a huge difference between 160 kph and 170 kp (2.77 m/s)

[Mothykins]

Artgathan, on 25 November 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

All things considered, the difference between 150 kph and 170 kph works out a difference of 5.56 m/s. It's not going to be enough to save your bacon, unless you've detected the enemy while at the extreme edge of their weapon range. Consider that if you bump into the Jenner (150 kph) in your Locust (170 kph) at 250m, It'll take you 3.77 seconds to escape to 271m - out of range of their SRMs, but still within range of their Medium Lasers. To escape to 540m, it will take over 50 seconds (more than enough time to vaporize a Locust).

Speed in this game is overrated. Once you hit a certain threshold there's no real reason to continue upgrading - the only reason I take 180XL in my Locusts is for the Engine DHS coupled with the fact that it's the same weight as the 175. There's not a huge difference between 160 kph and 170 kp (2.77 m/s)

If you're running in a straight line you're gonna have a bad day.

The reason for the bigger engine isn't "drag racing" out of combat, it's the tighter turning and ability to maintain a decent speed while swerving (As well as faster torso twist.) I can and will make 30 second sprints to cover while under fire and barely get scratched.

That said, @ 160KPH you're still not in the worst spot. But really, 1/2 ton?

[Artgathan]

Cavale, on 25 November 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

If you're running in a straight line you're gonna have a bad day.

The reason for the bigger engine isn't "drag racing" out of combat, it's the tighter turning and ability to maintain a decent speed while swerving (As well as faster torso twist.) I can and will make 30 second sprints to cover while under fire and barely get scratched.

That said, @ 160KPH you're still not in the worst spot. But really, 1/2 ton?

I completely agree that running in a straight line is a bad plan, but that's also part of the issue - the minimum time to escape at those ranges is still pretty high, considering the fragility of the Locust and the firepower available to lights. The instant you start jinking/juking to avoid fire, you start increasing the length of time you will be under fire.

Going from a 180 to 190 on a Locust increases turn speed by ~5%, which isn't a huge gain (is there really a noticeable difference between turning at 144 deg/sec and 152 deg/sec - which is the standstill turn speed, at top speed you'll turn at ~72 and ~76 deg/sec respectively?). For reference, the 150kph Jenner will turn at ~68 deg/sec at full speed. It's not a huge difference in mobility overall.

Granted, the difference between a 180 and 190 is 2.5% of a Locusts' tonnage, so you may feel that the increases are worth the expenditure; I just prefer to have a little bit more bite. Almost none of my Lights run their maximum engine, instead downgrading just a touch to free up tonnage for weapons / jump jets / heat sinks.

[Dawnstealer]

As a pilot of both Locusts and Commandos (and numerous other mechs going all the way up to Atlai - seriously, I have almost every chasis), I believe you build the mech for what it was designed to do. If you aren't moving at 170kph with speed tweak, you might as well be in a DDC that isn't running ECM. Your advantage is speed (and yes, taking advantage of the horrid hitreg issues the engine has with objects moving that fast) - use it to its fullest. If you want to move at 150kph, get a Jenner or Cicada.

I thought about bumping up to the ML, and that was the original plan, but I always like seeing how the things run stock first (adding Endo and DHS, if the mech doesn't come with, of course). I wasn't expecting much from the SLs and admittedly would rather run one TAG over two SLs. I was expecting the first match out in the thing to be a laughable joke, but had two kills and easily cleared 300 damage in a completely virgin mech: I haven't been able to do that in any other mech and, while I'm not an amazing pilot, I'm not bad, either.

The SLs on this mech really work: the ECM lets you get in closer than normal, as does the speed, the heat is minimal, the damage is respectable. With range and cooldown modules in place (I have two range modules, SL and MG, right now), it's surprisingly effective. I never thought I'd say that about a Locust (and I love my Locusts) or Small Lasers.

[Willard Phule]

Water Bear, on 25 November 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

You guys are having two different conversations. Does going faster than 150 kph cause hit reg issues or not? If not, then crows wins. If so, Remarius wins.

Round 2, fight!

First of all, I'm the one that brought it up...not crows.

Second, not only does it cause HSR issues, it's the primary reason you'll never see MASC in this game. The developers have even said this several times......well, at least about the MASC thing. They say that the Cryengine can't render anything over 150 kph. One could infer from this that the server can't deal with the hit prediction at that speed, either. Regardless....

They never mentioned how the 'mechs that could already go over 150kph were being handled. They played around with hitboxes and said it was "fixed," but we all know how far that goes. Spiders still take more fire than an Assault. It may not seem that way to the guy piloting the Spider but it sure as hell does to everyone else that's firing at it.

Artgathan, on 25 November 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

There are no hitreg issues at speeds over 150 kph. There are hitreg issues in general though.

It was a long time ago that speed was capped at ~150 because there were hitreg issues at higher speeds. PGI then corrected these issues, and pushed the speed cap up to ~170kph. Now if you go >170, there will be hitreg issues, hence why we can't go over 170.

Bear in mind that using the engine formula, the Locust should be able to carry up to a ~225 Engine. Ever wonder why it was capped lower? I mean, if it's already breaking hitreg at 170, why stop there?

Ok, I'll buy that. Like I said, I'm working with the information I've got. When did they increase it to 170?