15 replies to this topic

[Cichol Balor]

So while I have been playing for years I have rarely used any of the guided missile systems. Recently I have gotten a new play to try out the game and he is enthralled with missiles. I have been trying to help him but a lot of what i have found is information from posts over half a decade old and in some cases contradictory.

The main things I am wondering is how things like TAG artemis and narc interact and most importantly what "tracking strength" is. I understand that ATMs have artemis built in but are there any cavoites to that?

I know streaks cant use artemis but do they get bonuses from narc and tag?

[Elizander]

From what I understand, there are a few factors that affect missiles now. Others will correct me if I am wrong, I guess.

• There are two lock on states - Direct lock on and indirect lock on. Direct lock on makes missiles fire in a straighter light at higher velocities with less spread while indirect lock on makes missiles fly slower at a higher arc and more spread. Direct locks also lock on much faster than indirect.
  
• TAG'd mech locks are treated as direct lock for allies. NARC'd mech locks have the smaller spread, but the lock on time is treated as indirect to give mechs time to find cover.
  
• You cannot lock on a mech with Stealth armor unless you use TAG or NARC.
  
• TAG removes ECM and allows you to lock on faster.
  
• From what I understand, Artemis does not affect ATMS/Streaks at all.
  
• Your lock on time is dependent on your sensor range. The more sensor range you have, the faster your missiles lock on.

I'm no missile expert, so someone tear down any wrong info I posted.

[Cichol Balor]

Thank you for the reply I had no idea about the sensor range part of it. Does tag not affect missile spread? Like i said a lot of the info i could find was old. The wiki for tag even includes the line "in the current state of the beta".

[Elizander]

Cichol Balor, on 14 January 2021 - 01:18 AM, said:

Thank you for the reply I had no idea about the sensor range part of it. Does tag not affect missile spread? Like i said a lot of the info i could find was old. The wiki for tag even includes the line "in the current state of the beta".

It used to, but they made it so spread is now affected by whether it's direct or indirect line of sight. Tag just allows allies to target a mech as if it was in direct line of sight, but if you are staring at it already, it makes zero difference unless it's being used to uncloak an ECM or Stealth armor mech.

You'd only bring TAG as a missile mech if you want to target ECM/Stealth targets in your own line of sight.

Edited by Elizander, 14 January 2021 - 04:44 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Elizander, on 14 January 2021 - 12:15 AM, said:

From what I understand, there are a few factors that affect missiles now. Others will correct me if I am wrong, I guess.

• There are two lock on states - Direct lock on and indirect lock on. Direct lock on makes missiles fire in a straighter light at higher velocities with less spread while indirect lock on makes missiles fly slower at a higher arc and more spread. Direct locks also lock on much faster than indirect.
  
• TAG'd mech locks are treated as direct lock for allies. NARC'd mech locks have the smaller spread, but the lock on time is treated as indirect to give mechs time to find cover.
  
• You cannot lock on a mech with Stealth armor unless you use TAG or NARC.
  
• TAG removes ECM and allows you to lock on faster.
  
• From what I understand, Artemis does not affect ATMS/Streaks at all.
  
• Your lock on time is dependent on your sensor range. The more sensor range you have, the faster your missiles lock on.

I'm no missile expert, so someone tear down any wrong info I posted.

Elizander is mostly correct here. Only one thing, only the indirect lock-on time is affected by sensor range. Direct fire lock-on is not further modified at all.

[Spitfire 03]

Cichol Balor, on 13 January 2021 - 07:21 PM, said:

The main things I am wondering is how things like TAG artemis and narc interact and most importantly what "tracking strength" is.

Tracking strength is how many times the missile 'retarget' onto the locked target.

[Cichol Balor]

Spitfire 03, on 16 January 2021 - 06:09 AM, said:

Tracking strength is how many times the missile 'retarget' onto the locked target.

I assume this means that it would make it easier for them to hit things moving quicker then?

[Kroete]

Cichol Balor, on 21 January 2021 - 11:28 PM, said:

I assume this means that it would make it easier for them to hit things moving quicker then?

Its how often they change their direction.
You can see it with missiles that lost their lock, they go straight on the last path they took (Lock missiles target centermass, thats why you often hit the enemys legs of players that just go back to break a lock.)
but if you relook in time, they will change to the new position of the target
You are right, its more important for hitting fast things, but its limited to the turning factor of the missiles, they cant do 180 degree turns at one step anymore.

There was a time, where you could use this to get enemys behind cover with some bending
and there was a time, long ago, where you could use this to hit the enemy in front of you in the back with your missiles. Now you can use it seldom to do some tricks, they removed lots of skill but gave much more ammo for simple spamming.

Edited by Kroete, 22 January 2021 - 03:08 AM.

[Ignatius Audene]

One important point is, that your tag is cancelled as well if you are under low signal status. Bap and uav and or a ppc are good ways to get rid of this.

[NiceDad]

I'm a new player and when playing with ATM, I find that its missiles does not fly like LRM which can hit targets behind cover with a high vertical angle. Though I lock-on to the enemy and after I fire my missiles, when he duct under the ridge, half (or more) of the missiles hit the ground instead. May I know does ATM missiles also flies with a drop down vertical angle (for long distance targets) or it will usually flies more flat than LRMs?

How should I best utilise the ATMs? Fire enemies at middle range (320m ~ 500m) and also use it to do brawling within the 270m range (>120m) as a direct fire? Or should I just swap out the ATM and replace them with SRM for knife brawling?


Thank you
Have Fun
Stay Safe

[Aidan Crenshaw]

ATMs always have that flat arc similar to direct-fire LRMs. They are also most powerful below 245 but above 120m range, as they deal 3 damage per missile there. They're best used with poptarts. Stay in cover, jump up, lock on, fire, fall back into cover. Target decay nodes are essential.

[NiceDad]

Sorry for my noobness, "poptarts" referring to "stay in cover, jump up, lock on, fire, fall back into cover"?

When I configure my mech, what is the minimum height that my mech should be able to jump so that it can do the poptarts effectively? Because I afraid that if I equip too many jumpjets, then I will scarifice my armour/weapons/ammo/speed.


Thank You
Have Fun
Stay Safe

[Aidan Crenshaw]

NiceDad, on 26 January 2021 - 02:00 AM, said:

Sorry for my noobness, "poptarts" referring to "stay in cover, jump up, lock on, fire, fall back into cover"? When I configure my mech, what is the minimum height that my mech should be able to jump so that it can do the poptarts effectively? Because I afraid that if I equip too many jumpjets, then I will scarifice my armour/weapons/ammo/speed. Thank You Have Fun Stay Safe

There is absolutely no need to apologize for being new and unfamiliar with the lingo everyone throws around. And yes, that's poptarting.
I am no expert, but on my poptarts, I usually aim for about 30m jump height, which usually translates to 3 jets, depending on the mech tonnage. I think 20m is the bare minimum.

[Cichol Balor]

ATMs are missiles I actually use and if you have them on a mech with no JJ they still make a good mid line when the brawl starts. You can easily CT most assaults using 42 ATM tubes. Also I find them to be most effective when you don't lock not only can you target specific components but the missiles seem to spread less. Only issue with this is your ATMs hit where your aiming and they do have a slight arc so if your target is moving odds are you have to aim at the ground he is going to be passing and deal all your damage to the legs depending on what the terrain is like behind them. In these cases it is better to just lock.

Also TY to everyone who has helped me in this thread.

Edited by Cichol Balor, 26 January 2021 - 05:43 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

ECM no longer completely prevents missile locks, but does make it take a really long time to lock on.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

TheCaptainJZ, on 28 January 2021 - 03:51 PM, said:

ECM no longer completely prevents missile locks, but does make it take a really long time to lock on.

Not entirely correct.
ECM has always (at least in the time I'm playing) completely prevented locks in two ways:
1. by not being able to lock onto an ECM-shielded target because nobody is in range yet. (Reduced sensor range against ECM-shielded units)
2. by disrupting your sensors while you are in their ECM bubble (120m radius)
Both are still effective as of today.
What ECM also did was to increase the missile-lock times in all cases, which was altered in the missile rework patch some time ago so that this now affects indirect-fire locks only. (Indirect-fire locks are further affected by the distance to the target and your own sensor range)