32 replies to this topic

[fyurian]

TheSilkenPimp, on 08 December 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

Just let us remove JJs and add some more hardpoints to the Side Torsos. Boom done.*

lets open up JJ on all omnimechs*

on topic the summoner and the ice-fart are the first omni's that i want to sell simply because they offer little to no different builds

[TheSilken]

I like it, especially on Mining Collective, since you can drop down out of no where and blast people.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

I'm very amused that the patch today introduced Quirks to the Summoner that were very similar to some of what I suggested above. I think they used a bit of a light touch (that is, I think it could have used a bit more) but better to be conservative and then add to it if it proves not enough.

Probably just a coincidence, but very amused, nonetheless.

@TheSilkenPimp and Fyurian:

I disagree, unlocking things like JJs on Clan 'Mechs would reduce the restriction that balances them against IS 'Mechs. Plus, JJs are a key aspect of what makes the Summoner unique. Take that away and you are _reducing_ what makes them distinctive, and thus creating sameness.

Sameness is a trap; homogeneity is boring. Everything customizable sounds great in theory, but in practice creates homogeneity.

@John80sk

You're absolutely right about the tonnage, ES would give it +3.5 tons. With all 'Mechs at max armor (adjusted to the nearest half-ton) that would give available tonnage of:

+1.5 tons compared to the Stormcrow (no big thing there, it is a medium after all),
-1.5 tons compared to the Mad Dog,
+1 ton compared to the Hellbringer and
-3 tons compared to the Timber Wolf.

Seems spot on to me, especially with the Quirks introduced in the December 9th patch.

I'm not convinced about all the weapon Quirks you suggest. The reason is that the Summoner has always been famous for being mobile; let's keep it that way.

Opening up the tonnage (even +3.5 tons won't make it OP) and giving it the mobility Quirks would make it a viable alternative to any of the above 'Mechs and place it in a different role (excepting the Stormcrow with which it would share the role).

[John80sk]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 09 December 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

@John80sk

You're absolutely right about the tonnage, ES would give it +3.5 tons. With all 'Mechs at max armor (adjusted to the nearest half-ton) that would give available tonnage of:

+1.5 tons compared to the Stormcrow (no big thing there, it is a medium after all),
-1.5 tons compared to the Mad Dog,
+1 ton compared to the Hellbringer and
-3 tons compared to the Timber Wolf.

Seems spot on to me, especially with the Quirks introduced in the December 9th patch.

I'm not convinced about all the weapon Quirks you suggest. The reason is that the Summoner has always been famous for being mobile; let's keep it that way.

Opening up the tonnage (even +3.5 tons won't make it OP) and giving it the mobility Quirks would make it a viable alternative to any of the above 'Mechs and place it in a different role (excepting the Stormcrow with which it would share the role).

The quirks are ballpark suggestions, keep in mind they were pulled from my backside with about 3 minutes of thought. The Summoner was known for its agility sure, but it was also known for bringing a couple big cannons to a fight. Thing is in tabletop/other titles those big cannons did a lot more damage. An Ultra-20 could just about strip an Atlas CT, or bring a side torso to cherry red.

So the Summoner, chugging along at 81kph, and able to clear most obstacles with its jumpjets could get into an advantageous position and outright kill most mechs before they knew what hit them. In MWO, the Summoner can get to the vicinity of a fight, jumpjet hump his way up into an advantageous position eventually, and then be marginally annoying. I'm not suggesting it should be insta-killing mechs, but I think weapon quirks (or better pods) are necessary to make it able to deliver a significant blow.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

John80sk, on 10 December 2014 - 12:29 AM, said:

The quirks are ballpark suggestions, keep in mind they were pulled from my backside with about 3 minutes of thought. The Summoner was known for its agility sure, but it was also known for bringing a couple big cannons to a fight. Thing is in tabletop/other titles those big cannons did a lot more damage. An Ultra-20 could just about strip an Atlas CT, or bring a side torso to cherry red.

So the Summoner, chugging along at 81kph, and able to clear most obstacles with its jumpjets could get into an advantageous position and outright kill most mechs before they knew what hit them. In MWO, the Summoner can get to the vicinity of a fight, jumpjet hump his way up into an advantageous position eventually, and then be marginally annoying. I'm not suggesting it should be insta-killing mechs, but I think weapon quirks (or better pods) are necessary to make it able to deliver a significant blow.

All of this is true. But MWO is real-time and TT Battletech is turn-based. I never played TT, but I assume there are things like initiative and statistical dice rolling. Also, there is the fact that 81 kph would actually be really fast IRL, but in MWO it seems just moderate.

All of this, I'm sure you are aware of. But my point is that comparisons between MWO and TT are not really useful; we need to consider factors within the context of the game we are playing (MWO).

I'm not sold on the idea of weapon Quirks such as you suggested (I know they were just off-hand thoughts ) for 2 main reasons:

1) They seem heavy handed. Those were so much bonus it almost seems like it's not a Quirk, but rather a specialty of the 'Mech. I'd like to see any Quirks (of any kind) be modest adjustments to performance; noticeable, but just barely. It seems to me that if Quirks become too heavy it will lock the 'Mech to 1 or 2 optimal builds and there won't be any variety or choice in what to field, if you want to perform well in-game. That leads me to #2:

2) I fear sameness. I don't want a system where every Summoner has the same loadout. I fear a system where every example of any particular 'Mech has the same loadout. I fear a system where all 'Mechs start to look similar in their loadouts. Homogeneity is boring and it will affect the game in the long term. As the Players we should not desire sameness. The Devs should endeavor to avoid sameness at all costs.

[Bluefalcon13]

How many of you all run sarna stock configs on your summoners?

Just wondering cause thats what I run and I have had a great night tonight...

[Jaspbo1]

I would like to see 2xJJ efficiency = double height and double burn time, along with 50% fall damaged reduction and fall velocity damage would only be brought up to 40 maybe 45 M/S.
Summoner is all about JJ's, sure weapon buffs are nice, but this thing is all about the ability to be far more versatile and jumpable than the TW, able to get to more places quicker and whatnot.

[InspectorG]

Bluefalcon13, on 10 December 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

How many of you all run sarna stock configs on your summoners?

Just wondering cause thats what I run and I have had a great night tonight...

I may have to try that.

As far as quirks, i think the Thunderbolt shout be the model to follow...the exception being a missile boat.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Then to boot, the firepower on the prime isnt even any good. There is a reason the Clans only mounted a CERPPC+LBX10....That CERPPC is supposed to be a murder machine at 15/15...at 10/15 its just a joke. So yeah, Summoner is prolly the worst clan mech overall. even the Badder can prollybe made to be a punchy little light, a light with firepower was its role no? It can be geared to fit that with laser vomit builds. But Summoner? What role/build/purpose/point or anything can it do?

[InspectorG]

LordKnightFandragon, on 19 December 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

Then to boot, the firepower on the prime isnt even any good. There is a reason the Clans only mounted a CERPPC+LBX10....That CERPPC is supposed to be a murder machine at 15/15...at 10/15 its just a joke. So yeah, Summoner is prolly the worst clan mech overall. even the Badder can prollybe made to be a punchy little light, a light with firepower was its role no? It can be geared to fit that with laser vomit builds. But Summoner? What role/build/purpose/point or anything can it do?

That would change if they gave it Thinderbolt 9S ERPPC quirks for the Prime at least

2 Side torso pods with high energy mounts would be very nice as well.

[Ursh]

I bought three Summoners with cbills awhile back. Finished basics and speed tweak, but haven't been excited enough to play mwo for awhile.

I want the Summoner's jumpjets to be something besides 5 tons of hoverjets. I can live with the other limitations mostly, but when I hit the jumpjets, I want that freaking thing to get some darn vertical!

[Koniving]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 29 November 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

I have always been a big fan of the MechWarrior series and this game is no different. In that, I have always loved the Summoner; it's always been my favorite 'Mech for a variety of reasons.
Anyway, just a thought. Thanks for reading!

Bigger engine would exasperate the problems I have. Though it's written that a Summoner goes 86, and this one goes 81... so there is that.

Another thing worth mentioning is that mechs that would do poorly, like the Atlas and the King Crab -- which possess few hardpoints -- were inflated.

Why not 'inflate' the Summoner's hardpoints? Example, up to 4 energy on an arm or 2 ballistics on the ballistic arm? Additional Omnipods and/or better quirks for the existing ones.

Though honestly the issue I have most with the Summoner is the hitbox layout is very basic. It's large, tall and basic. You can also hit the front and rear CTs from the sides, from 180 degrees left to right for the front and 176 degrees left to right from the rear. Its hitbox hurts it a lot; combine this with a 70 ton mech's worth in armor and a huge engine and you've got very little tonnage to work with.

[TerminatorII]

I love my summoner.... UAC 20 with 5 tons ammo in my right torso, UAC CD module and ML's in the other torso. Wrecks face and I usually clean up 4-6 mechs a match. Use your JJ's to work around to the enemies rear and take out their assaults and other heavies. Now If only it had ECM.......


Of course, when the UAC20 jams and you were counting on it not jamming to finish off those three assaults you jumped into the middle of its a bit of a problem.

Edited by TerminatorII, 22 December 2014 - 04:43 PM.