41 replies to this topic

[superteds]

Aphoticus, on 02 December 2014 - 05:01 AM, said:

Bait Whale; 10 armor front, the rest in the back... no one's doing this?

Had a firestarter dancing around my rear for like 4 minutes while I continued to snipe the enemy engaged with the rest of the team (you have to make some micro movements to make the enemy thing you are trying to turn around in between Gauss charge-ups).

probably no, because skewing your armour to protect you against one mech vs the other 11 in front of you is a bad idea.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Seriously? Your mech can disintegrate any other foe in a matter of seconds and you're complaining about its ONE major drawback? (mobility)

This isn't unfair, this is perfect balance. L2P slow mechs or keep di(re)ing

[meteorol]

Jazzbandit1313, on 02 December 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

Seriously? Your mech can disintegrate any other foe in a matter of seconds and you're complaining about its ONE major drawback? (mobility)

This isn't unfair, this is perfect balance. L2P slow mechs or keep di(re)ing

Did you even read the OP?
Do you realize that not getting left behind by your team is nothing that you can learn because it depends entirely, well... on your team? No matter how much you "l2p", the DW won't go faster than 54kph. If you team decides to run away, they run away. And there is literally nothing you will be able to do about it, no matter how good you are.

[FupDup]

That's the price you pay for carrying a Metric Fuckton™ of firepower. Risk and reward.

[Shae Starfyre]

superteds, on 02 December 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

probably no, because skewing your armour to protect you against one mech vs the other 11 in front of you is a bad idea.

One time, I came forward to soon, and the enemy nearly cored me, and that lead to 5 enemies chasing me and firing down my rear armor to their demise as I, yes, a Dire, led them to a firing line with their names written all over it...

I survived.

Enhancing the PUG life one drop at a time.

Edited by Aphoticus, 02 December 2014 - 06:50 AM.

[Water Bear]

Helmstif, on 30 November 2014 - 12:05 AM, said:

But in a Direwhale, even if you're the best in the world, there's nothing you could do when your teammates screw up.

There's more than a few people who will tell you that if you get left behind and also find yourself completely exposed, then you screwed up. Sometimes you get hunted by lights and there's not much you can do. Other times not so much.

[Jazzbandit1313]

meteorol, on 02 December 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

Did you even read the OP?
Do you realize that not getting left behind by your team is nothing that you can learn because it depends entirely, well... on your team? No matter how much you "l2p", the DW won't go faster than 54kph. If you team decides to run away, they run away. And there is literally nothing you will be able to do about it, no matter how good you are.

Then dont play a dire. I dont care how many times you get left behind. Youre a walking death machine with the most amount of weapons and armor any mech can have. Mobility is sacrificed. If a team decides that they dont need you, then so be it

[superteds]

besides none of this is a dire-specific issue. get left in a stalker/atlas/banshee/battlemaster et al and the same happens. teams the issue, or your placement not the mech.

[Sprouticus]

First thing I ALWAYS type in pug games with small maps is either

protect the fatties
or
move tot he fatties


depends upon the map.


Believe it or not most folks will actually respond when you type that. They may leave them behind later if you get into a toilet bowl circle jerk, but even then a quick remind helps.


Running a kitfox, ML, or Hellbringer with ECM to hide them helps a lot too. I find that protecting the fatties is one of the best things you can do to improve your chances of winning if you are in a smaller mech. Especially a clan light. But even a medium does a great job swatting flies off their backs.


As for the DW in general, they are feared for good reason, and they draw aggro like no bodies business. If they are tanking you can put a LOT of damage down range with minimal fear of being hit. Which allows you to aim better and focus fire and take down mechs faster.

The DW is what the Atlas SHOULD be. (after quirks the Atlas is better, but still not nearly as feared as the DW.

[Gyrok]

The Boz, on 02 December 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

These two points hold true for all Assault mechs.

Nope...

Actually, the Victor, Awesome, Zeus, Highlander, Stalker, Battlemaster, Banshee and Atlas can all mount large enough engines to break into the 60-70 kph range. While slow...they are still significantly more mobile than the DW. 53 kph after speed tweak is absolutely abysmal.

(Some even reach into the upper 80s if you are willing to go XL)

Edited by Gyrok, 02 December 2014 - 07:21 AM.

[Water Bear]

Gyrok, on 02 December 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

Nope...

Actually, the Victor, Awesome, Zeus, Highlander, Stalker, Battlemaster, Banshee and Atlas can all mount large enough engines to break into the 60-70 kph range. While slow...they are still significantly more mobile than the DW. 53 kph after speed tweak is absolutely abysmal.

(Some even reach into the upper 80s if you are willing to go XL)

The difference between a 60 kph atlas and a 53 kph dire whale doesn't sound like much. If you watched the two of them race, I don't think you'd see the atlas pull ahead very fast since it's only going 7 kph faster.

Also if you get any assault mech to get in "the upper 80's" with an xl engine, it'll be bad. No one thinks my ~80 kph pretty baby is that good.

Edited by Water Bear, 02 December 2014 - 07:45 AM.

[meteorol]

Jazzbandit1313, on 02 December 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

Then dont play a dire. I dont care how many times you get left behind. Youre a walking death machine with the most amount of weapons and armor any mech can have. Mobility is sacrificed. If a team decides that they dont need you, then so be it

Salty much? Show us where the bad DW touched you. Frankly speaking, i don't care how many times you danced infront of a DW and got oneshotted. No one ever complained about the DWs lack of mobility. This thread is full of complaints about stupid teammates. Learn to read before you tell others to l2p.

Edited by meteorol, 02 December 2014 - 08:00 AM.

[Brody319]

The whale is a cannon. You are really only threatened by it if its aimed at you,

[Zypher]

I have been both sides of this argument, being one shot in a light running around the wrong corner, and left to fend on my own in an assault. I would have to say playing in a DW is much harder, you don't often get to dictate the terms of an engagement.

I just wanted to point out a few things the others seem to miss.

1. Positioning trumps any other factor in this game, well maybe other than complete derps, but assaults have a harder time dealing with this.

2. The DW cannot change the engine, it's slow and will always be, IS assaults still have a little more flexibility.

3. In many matches you cannot even get a good firing position without getting murdered or shooting your teammates in the back, or you can wait until about 50% of the match is over to clean up.

4. In regard to points 1 - 3, X fire power won't do any good if you can't shoot anything, well, and if your dead or getting gang banged the point should be obvious.

5. DWs are feast or famine, and it's only feast when people are not paying attention to you or when you are playing cleanup, or the occasional derp target.

6. Beyond that DWs are good for suppression, chokes, anti flanking etc, they are a good for distracting the enemy team if not being a temporary punching bag at times.

7. DWs shine in 1 vs 1 assault combat, which if either team is doing point 1 well, it almost never happens.

8. If your getting clobbered by a DW, see point 1 again, either derp, positioning, or you are in a slow assault yourself.

Edited by Zypher, 02 December 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[Josef Koba]

I've been dropping almost exclusively in one of my DWs for a couple of weeks now, both in group and solo queue. While I almost always put out good damage, it is feast or famine in terms of whether or not you're going to be successful because, as has been noted, many teams lack situational awareness. If you're left behind you're left for dead. I always try to protect my assaults if playing another weight class because that's way too much firepower to let die alone. That said, I think the DW is a great platform, but I'm an assault driver for the most part. I don't generally fear the lone light, especially if I'm in the LB Dire, but I've wrecked plenty of lights as they ran across the battlefield. Now, two lights or a medium and a light? Yeah, it's going to be a bad match. Might punish one mech or even kill it before I go down, but that'll be about all I contribute.

I tend to use my DWs as a hammer to my team's anvil. When the enemy is engaged, you can pretty much smash through the team like a wrecking ball so long as your team doesn't break contact (which happens quite frequently). The problem with piloting a DW is that it makes you want to be aggressive; I mean you're carrying as much firepower as an Iowa class battleship and all you want to do is put rounds on target. But you can't because you'll die very, very quickly without support - just like a battleship would. Patience is your best friend in a DW.

[Kain Demos]

aniviron, on 02 December 2014 - 12:43 AM, said:

Yep, OP's frustration is not unique to piloting a DWF. The DWF, however, still has more firepower than any other mech in the game.

Yeah but man, I hate when that happens in a Dire Wolf most of all.

It has happened to me the most on River City--getting the spawn on the base with the docks on it and then everyone rushing across the water to leave you behind. Twice I got gangbanged so bad by lights spotting with TAG and LRMs I never even got a shot off.

Being in a 100 ton 'mech with an obscene amount of firepower and just being completely unable to fight back sure is rage inducing.

[F4T 4L]

Helmstif, on 30 November 2014 - 12:05 AM, said:

Piloting a Direwhale in PUG is practically gambling.

There's nothing more dangerous than a Dire Wolf when the enemies do not see it there, because their visions are just packed with a bunch of heat signatures/target indicators. It goes without saying that nothing beats Dire Wolf in firepower - IF the teammates don't forget to circle around you.

And you have no idea if your teammate's gonna do that.

And there's nothing more pathetic than being gangbanged alone in a Direwhale, while the teammates 300 meters ahead remain oblivious of my situation. Oh wait, there's one thing - charging into a position, notifying teammates beforehand, and nobody follows you.

In a way, running a 35-tonner Light is way easier than running a Direwhale. The worst that could happen to a 35-tonner is when you run into a Clan Streakboat - who still cannot kill you in a single alpha, and you know it would become totally useless in any sort of real combat. If you screw up, it's yourself to blame.

But in a Direwhale, even if you're the best in the world, there's nothing you could do when your teammates screw up.

You're right, but the thread name is misleading. Maybe create another with a more accurate title, explaining to pug folk why they should protect their assets.

Sad truth is that most players don't read these forums, so it's probably more productive to ping some explanation at the start of each game. A few dumbasses will make a fuss, but that's all I've come up with so far.

GL.

Edited by F4T 4L, 02 December 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[Nightmare1]

My Ninja Locusts will agree with the OP. I've pulled down Dires solo with them, including some that had a bodyguard too!

Dires are one of the very few Mechs in this game that have a performance as reliant on their fellow pilots as on their owners.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

i just recently picked up a DW and im already considering selling it. idk what to do cuz i don't really want to save up 44 mil cbills just to master one when it already seems like a lame duck.

honestly its underwhelming as #$#$. ya it has unprecedented amounts of firepower but ghost heat and its lumbering nature precludes you from using it properly anyway there is no skill involved here if you cant turn fast enough to hit things then you CANT TURN FAST ENOUGH TO HIT THINGS.

I have found exactly 1 build that avoids ghost heat but it still only has a 0.85 heat efficiency so its like...... yay all the guns in the world but i cant actually FIRE them. shutdown in a DW is as good as a death so you might as well hit override anytime your in a sticky situation and alpha till you pop at least you will be helping your team.

its slow moving, slow turning, very limited twist range, gets focused right away not to mention half the matches im dropping in my team starts losing before i even catch up. your contribution depends entirely on how well your team is doing so if your team is already winning your firepower is worthless and you might as well played a faster mech that could at least support the battle. when your losing your dead anyway because you really cant take more then 1 mech at a time anyway. forget firepower your simply to slow and lumbering to fight anything but 1 other mech at a time.

feels like it was added as a token effort for all the old mw2 fans because its NOTHING like a DW in previous titles or TT. It should be an undisputed king of assaults not a lame duck that waddles around and cant even aim its ARMS to the side. this is supposed to be a premier clan assault mech its like the entire team of design engineers simply thought "lets stuff as much firepower as we can in one mech, turning, torso twist be damned! that #$#$ is overrated anyway so long as it has 15.9999394gajillian weapons when it pops up on the enemy hud it should work right?"

and its not just the mech itself. a good portion of it is the game mechanics themselves. IE climbing hills at a crawl (if you can call it that), getting stuck on literally EVERY LITTLE ROCK EVERYWHERE (lots of mechs have this problem but it is greatly exaggerated in a DW). maps that are all far to small and to "arena" centric to play to the DW strengths IE making use of its long range capabilities instead of just "ridge humping" and "corner sniping"

its no wonder Ive never been scared of them, in almost any other mech i have no trouble mauling the crap out of DW and now i know why. they simply suck. "ermg it has so much alpha, so much FP!!!!!!!!" doesn't matter. listen if you shut down on your first shot then you are useless outside of 1v1 why do we only see DW snipers with twin gauss twin erppc? not because they lack the tonnage to carry more its because you overheat instantly if you even dare to fire more then 2 at a time.

don't really have problems getting ambushed by a single light but if its more then 2 your likely to meet a short end. far cry from the overpowering death machine its supposed to be

and you know its also mechanics like ghost heat that compound the problem because of the DW need to fill all that tonnage. I never found the vaunted 6ppc stalker to be a problem and if you did you needed to L2P. yes they existed and yes they hurt, but they were just like LRM boats having to abuse a few CERTAIN spots on maps or otherwise having a predictable MO which meant you could HUNT them instead of letting them just shoot you up. but tell me why do 8 MPL/8ERML/4ERLL or any combination of 8 small/med laser anything all make more heat then 6ERML+2ERLL?

how the hell does it make sense that clan small lasers get grouped with med lasers for ghost heat? and that standard and pulse lasers get grouped too? clan weapons ARE NOT THAT GOOD. of all of them only the gauss and SRMS are clearly better then IS then why is every other clan weapon WORSE then IS ones? the clan ultra 20 isn't even a GOOD GUN yet firing 2 of them in a DW will overheat you in 2 shots just the same as dual ac20 jag, clan ultra 2's make so much heat that they (admittedly like IS ac2's) are just useless and your better off using LBX2's if you want to achieve a high ROF. why DOES EVERYTHING NEED GHOST HEAT?

DW just suffers the most because it has so many hardpoints it cant avoid boating weapons. but again its like running a race where the goal post keeps moving. you can have all the firepower you want, if you like just shutting down. but go the balanced route and you are left with....... you guessed it 2erppc and 2 gauss. yay. clap clap clap didn't we want ghost heat to stop those 60 alpha pinpoints? cept now you can do it without ghost heat. doesn't that seem you know counter-productive?. are you happy that you have a 100 ton clan assault mech that is best using only 4 weapons when it has up to 12 hard points?

(big middle finger to PGI)

[Walluh]

To the text wall above..

l2manageheat

If I can successfully pilot a Dire Wolf boating eight ERLLAS, you can do anything.