18 replies to this topic

[Amethyst Blade]

A few years ago I was visiting a college and they had a double blind game of Battletech in a city going on. It was a massively impressive game. They had two identical maps, full 3d cities with a divider between them. Each team was at their own table and could see all their 'Mechs. Referee's ran, yes ran, back and forth between the tables checking who could see what as each 'Mech moved. The game probably took all day. Battletech is already a relatively slow game but a double blind made me cringe. Mechwarrior Online does it every match but in real time.

ECM, electronic counter measures, is a system that blocks enemy 'Mechs from detecting where you are. It has a range from the 'Mech with the ECM. Any friendly 'Mechs in range are also "invisible". The enemy 'Mechs will not appear on your radar. (There are a number of ways to counter ECM but that comes later.) 'Mechs that fire missiles generally need to a lock-on to hit the enemy. In fact, Streak missiles can not be fired without that lock-on.

Tactically having ECM means your opponents don't know what you are doing. If your team sneaks around behind, flanking the enemy, they won't know. When all those assault 'Mechs start getting shot in the back, it's too late, because they turn like a dump truck in three feet of mud. In games that last 5 minutes, the first team to score several kills almost always wins.
Enemies shielded by ECM, hiding in trees, or at great range, sniping are terrifying. You start getting hit, but you can not find the enemy. (Try switching to Infrared or Night Vision.) Not knowing where the enemy is, not being able to fire missiles and taking unreturned fire, an ECM can decide a match before it's started.

There are a number of ways of defeating ECM. Perhaps the most dangerous is Counter ECM. To do this, a 'Mech with ECM, has to switch from Disrupt to Counter and get close to the enemy 'Mech with ECM. Generally this is ineffective because you end up going solo into the enemy team and they disable your 'Mech very quickly. It's very good for routing out the last few survivors near the end of the game and may be good in a close range brawl. If you can get close to the enemy with cover, it may also be very effective. A Counter ECM will only counter 1 enemy ECM. If they have 2 or more, you only stop 1 of them. Switching to Counter ECM also means, you are not shielding your allies anymore. Expect complains!

Scouts/scouting defeats ECM. If you get close enough to an enemy 'Mech, especially if you have line-of-site on them, you can get a lock-on. Even if you can't get a lock, you can report to your team where the enemy is massing. Active probes, seismic sensor modules, TAG and NARC equipment can all help you get a lock onto an enemy 'Mech.

Drones defeat ECM. Drones are a consumable and generally whenever they are used, they advantage quickly shifts to the team that is using one. Suddenly a number of enemy 'Mechs often become visible and the entire team generally swarms and disables them, because they have no other targets to attack. Using a drone is like feeding Piranha. This exemplifies how important tactical information is - knowing where the enemy team is.

A Radar Deprivation module, albeit really expensive in General XP, makes you vanish off radar immediately if you are out of sight of the enemy. However there are also modules that do the exact opposite, including the Targeting Computer and Active Probe, which let you target faster and/or retain targeting once the target is out of sight. As an LRM boat, you want the fastest target acquisition possible. Sometimes a target will leave the ECM field for a few seconds giving you only that long to lock up their 'Mech and put a few LRMs in the sky headed their way.

Using ECM is important. You will eventually learn which 'Mechs can have ECM and it's generally a good idea to stay near them, especially at first. The big slow Atlas with ECM is your best friend while you make that long slow walk towards the enemy. If you have ECM, your team will love you a lot more if you stick around. Most ECM equipable 'Mechs are light and fast. If you leave your heavy 'Mechs behind to endure LRMs and give away their position, expect complaints. Also, and people will remind you of this, try not to die. You are so valuable to a stalemate, that even if you aren't shooting back, and thus exposing yourself to enemy fire, you are still doing your team a great service, doubly so if they are getting locks and firing LRMs up and over cover. You may also keep an eye on who you are covering and move to get as many team mates as possible. (An ECM symbol appears above affected 'Mechs.)

One of the most effective new ECM 'Mechs is the Kit Fox. It's like the Inner Sphere's Raven, but for the Clans. Now, if you run and check, no Kit Fox can equip and ECM! Look much harder. You can buy the Omnipod for the right arm from the Kit Fox C! Just the arm pod. This arm not only takes a clan ECM, but you can affix three antimissile systems and a tag on the laser hardpoint. Add a Narc missile beacon and an active probe and you've got the perfect scout, spotter and defensive unit. Remember that anti-missile systems help 'Mechs you are near. (I typically run the AMS dry every game using 1-2 tons of ammunition.) ECM Kit Foxes are very obvious with the triple AMS pods on their right shoulder. You want to be near them during an LRM shower.

If you drop into a game and don't see the ECM symbol over your allies, you're in trouble. This is twice as bad if you can't see the enemy a minute or two into the game, which is the typical indicator that they do have ECM. If the sky fills with missiles, you're in three times the trouble because they have missile boats to take advantage of the situation.

If you can find and rush the enemy, that's one strategy in this situation, but it's a desperate one. If you can find and disable the ECM 'Mech, that's also really handy but dangerous. A good Mechwarrior will study what locations ECM's can be equipped in each of the 'Mechs that take them. You can aim for those locations. On certain maps you can just hide from the LRM fire and pop out to shoot.

One sided games are a constant problem. The software does try to create even matches. However, even if it is programmed to, there may be no 'Mechs with or without ECM and/or LRMs to balance the games. And you can never predict when your ECM Raven's pilot will decide it's a good time to go make a stand against the whole of the enemy team. There is a certain invulnerability associated with having ECM. An ECM'd 'Mech is much more likely to walk past a group of enemy 'Mechs unnoticed as long as the pilot doesn't decide to fire on them. So bad situations are inevitable. Just make the best of them.

I invite you to respond with ideas, related to ECMs, for improving the game. I am not associated with Piranha or Catalyst Games but one naturally hopes they are listening. And maybe you can provide strategies for these worst-case-scenarios, or even just your horror stories or tales of crushing victories.

Mark Charke
- Amethyst Blade
Keeper of the Pumpkin 'Mech.

[Egomane]

I fail to see a tutorial in your OP.

I fail to see the most obvious counter to ECM even being mentioned in that capacity: The active probe! Which can be mounted on any and all mechs in the game and disables an oposing ECM within 240 meters.

I have won plenty of matches, in PUGs, with no ECM on our side.

All I see is a fearfull post about ECM and how it is the only valid counter to a quick LRM death.

You can counter ECM in the following ways:
- The above mentioned active probe
- A shot with an (ER-)PPC to the mech carrying the ECM will disable the ECM for a few seconds
- TAG will always pierce through an ECM cover, no matter how many ECMs provide it.
- NARCs if placed on an ECM carrier will make that carrier visible until the NARC deactivates (or the mech runs into the cover of a second ECM carrier)
- UAVs will disable all ECM benefits in their radius of detection

So, not having an ECM with your team is not an automatic loss. You just need to learn to use the counters.

Edited by Egomane, 04 December 2014 - 02:30 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Amethyst Blade, on 04 December 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

Atlas with ECM is your best friend while you make that long slow walk towards the enemy. If you have ECM, your team will love you a lot more if you stick around. Most ECM equipable 'Mechs are light and fast. If you leave your heavy 'Mechs behind to endure LRMs and give away their position, expect complaints. Also, and people will remind you of this, try not to die. You are so valuable to a stalemate, that even if you aren't shooting back, and thus exposing yourself to enemy fire, you are still doing your team a great service, doubly so if they are getting locks and firing LRMs up and over cover.

you can never predict when your ECM Raven's pilot will decide it's a good time to go make a stand against the whole of the enemy

you are correct,

sticking with the team will do it a great service, but the number of times I with an ECM Mech (Spider, Cicada or Kit Fox) have tried to keep all allies under ECM cover, proven instrumental in winning the game, received thanks from multiple teammates but got almost no cbill/XP reward for it means unless I am with an organized team these days there is little point playing ECM (unless I am levelling a new Mech which has it)

ECM Mechs running off are generally ether trying to scout (I used to ask if the team wanted me to scout or protect them) or to get earnings somewhere close to the rest of the team

Also the number of times I have been the sole ECM with a team and they decide to split into 2+ groups, both containing assaults (e.g. Dire Wolves), this is extremely frustrating especially when both Dire Wolf pilots are asking where there ECM is, it is literally impossible to protect both but you end up getting blamed for half the team getting LRMed to death.

The way of the ECM sheild can require patience and a thick skin.

[Amethyst Blade]

Egomane. Thank you for repeating several key points I already covered. I refer you to my article mentioning Active Probes above. Thank you for repeating that no ECM is not an automatic loss. That is, in part, the point of my article, despite the sensationalist title. However, people lose. In every single game, no matter how proud or prepared you are, someone loses unless you have that very rare tie. While it also helps to be prepared to win, it is important to be prepared to lose and to know why.

I'm sorry that, as an obviously seasoned player, you take no new information from my article and thus can not see it as a tutorial. It is, after all, for newer Players. BTW I like to call them new players, not the derogatory terms so commonly adopted.

Thank you for the PPC information. I did not know that bit of fluff made it from Battletech to MWO. Unfortunately the aim-at-the-legs tactic for lights precludes it's use.

Mark Charke

[Amethyst Blade]

I was just in a wonderful game, wonderful that it highlighted the ECM. In a stalemate, My team mates, unfortunately, kept standing in front of my Kit Fox S/C, our only ECM. After shooting and almost shooting several, I took to the high ground and I was picked off immediately. Seconds later LRMs started to fall. It was a short game and we lost.

Rogue Jedi, I'm sorry to hear that your ECM Spider isn't getting a lot of xp. I use my kit fox as a PPC sniper and that has been fairly successful. I find light 'Mechs in general earn far less than heavy or assault 'Mechs. But shielding you allies and not climbing up to high ground is the smarter move. Winning a match is worth much more than losing.

[Alaskan Nobody]

You may have covered many of the same points as Ego - but the way you put it was very negative.

IE: your title even reads "No ECM? You're dead"

Which -as Ego said, is simply not true

[luxebo]

Reword and summarize key points into a bullet format rather than a huge huge huge wall of text (though I admit I have my own lol). It's just that there is so much to read or at least put a TL;DR: sign.

[SilentScreamer]

Sorry Amethyst, but I see ECM as it is currently designed in MWO as a crutch against LRMs. A seasoned player should not be relying on it to protect his own mech as there are too many ways for opponents to defeat it. Others have said and I agree, avoid LRM death by keeping cover nearby and planning your movement accordingly.

That said, shielding groups of friendlies from LRMs can be helpful, but is not reliable for PUG/solo drops. Your suggestions are good if you have a small to large group dropping together and coordinating. I view that sort of escort duty as a bit of a waste if a scout like a spider or pirate's bane is baysitting an assault lance, but a loki or atlas ddc would fit the job perfectly and it sounds like your kitfox gets along decently.

Whether you are dropping solo or in a group ECM is useful for screening your own and team movements at mid range under cover or long range in the open. Also when brawling with multiple friendly ECM equiped mechs you can block enemy mechs from acquiring targeting data, making it harder for enemies to concretrate fire to take down your allies by hitting weakened armor points. These roles are ECMs true niche in my opinion, not stopping LRM rain.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 04 December 2014 - 05:53 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

People really need to lose the notion that they need ECM coverage to survive.

[Nemesis Duck]

I typically wouldn't read something this long but out of respect for you I did. I don't think your title is that bad. No where in your text do you say it's a guarenteed loss for the team without ECM. You make some good points, and it's well written and coherient.

I liked:
- When you said countering ECM is risky and so it's typically done at the end of the match to route out the last foes, true!
- When you said that a good mechwarrior will study where the ECM is equipped on mechs and shoot for those areas, that's great advice!
- You hinted on not shooting while using an ECM mech to sneak around, to not draw attention to yourself, competitornator!

But:
- You should have used the word UAV in place of Drone. Use exact terms when teaching!
- It is a wall of text. If you want to say a lot, try grouping information together and using subtitles to lead the reader along and keep them focused.

In scientific writing, the writer poses the hypothisis and conclusion in the first sentence, or multiple if they suck. Which means you could get away with just reading the first sentence! Intelligent people have agreed that the best way to have someone understand what you're saying is to use brevity, so you should too whenever possible.

Respect people's time, now, and even more in the future, and you will have many friends.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Is it feasible for a PPC Boat to chain fire on a ECM mech, disrupting it long enough for support LRMs to find and kill it?

[InspectorG]

Fenrisulvyn, on 04 December 2014 - 06:52 PM, said:

Is it feasible for a PPC Boat to chain fire on a ECM mech, disrupting it long enough for support LRMs to find and kill it?

Probably?

But if you had the skill to do that on a regular basis, you would likely be in an ELO where you had few if any LRM boats on your team...

[That Dawg]

Amethyst Blade, on 04 December 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

loud clicking noises

Sorry, I have the attention span of a squirrel. No ECM bad, or ok?

[Remarius]

Necroing threads is bad but as it was done....

Amazed that no one mentioned that ECM's best use is to block people getting information about the state of your mech's and therefore easily taking out the most damaged.

Other than that if you're experienced ECM isn't much needed.

PS: "One of the most effective new ECM 'Mechs is the Kit Fox." No please no....

Edited by Remarius, 06 December 2014 - 07:03 AM.

[InspectorG]

Remarius, on 06 December 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

Necroing threads is bad but as it was done....

Amazed that no one mentioned that ECM's best use is to block people getting information about the state of your mech's and therefore easily taking out the most damaged.

Other than that if you're experienced ECM isn't much needed.

PS: "One of the most effective new ECM 'Mechs is the Kit Fox." No please no....

Thats a comp level concern.

Most Puggers dont even press 'R'...

THATS more of a problem than ECM/LRM/Stealh/etc.

[SilentScreamer]

Remarius, on 06 December 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

Amazed that no one mentioned that ECM's best use is to block people getting information about the state of your mech's and therefore easily taking out the most damaged.

This was mentioned in my previous post, see above your reply 12/4 at 5:42pm.

[zortesh]

No ecm does not mean your screwed. it means you need to be hyper aggressive, especially if there lrm heavy or have narcs.....

[HlynkaCG]

Fenrisulvyn, on 04 December 2014 - 06:52 PM, said:

Is it feasible for a PPC Boat to chain fire on a ECM mech, disrupting it long enough for support LRMs to find and kill it?

It requires a good deal of skill but yes it is possible, and depending on the mech entirely feasible.


IE Hitting an Atlas D-DC or Hellbringer with a PPC at range isn't that hard. If you're driving a PPC boat just keep ringing that bell until the ECM mech falls over.

​Hitting a spider in the other hand...

[The Schwartz]

Yes, ECM will win a battle of peek a boo lrm spam. There's also a lack of aggressiveness that is required when there's no ECM or ECM for that matter. ECM does not make you blind. I know people don't seem to register an ecm mech with their brain muscle and "sneaking up" on a spider in an atlas can be hilarious but, 99.99% of the time the spider was not paying the least bit of attention to it's surroundings. Especially in a 10 story red blue and black atlas, there's no reason not to see it approaching. Seismic sensor is still my best friend. If you're a sniper of any sort get Seismic sensor, it only detects enemy mechs while stationary but, IT ONLY DETECTS ENEMY MECHS. The largest complaint seems to come from LRM boats who don't bring a BAP or TAG because they needed that extra 1-2.5 tons of ammo that they'll just miss with because they brought neither. BAP decreases lockon time, so it should be on every LRM boat to dish out the damage 25% faster. I see many waste tonnage on artemis because their play style is to never actually look at the enemy, just shoot at the box, which makes artemis useless (as it requires line of sight to get the bonus) Typically it's 4 tons of waste in Pug life.

blah blah blah now for something useful.
Situation, enemy team has 3-4 ecm, has LRM boats, and your team has no ECM. If the amount of LRM is the same on both sides then yes, the enemy team does have an advantage. Your team still has assault mechs. Now if all your assaults are LRM boats then well GG. If your team actually has real assault mechs ergo mechs designed for assaulting, you're not in horrible shape. Rule #1 Do not run guns blazing into the enemy rambo style. Run into the enemy mitigating damage, The Center Torso should be the only thing you worry about protecting. Save your heat, don't fire until you can actually hit something effectively. The huge advantage the assualt class has is being able to overheat the enemy with it's armor. Don't rush in alone of course, you're the shield, your teamates need to be shooting the enemy, you are the center of attention so USE IT. The more damage you can absorb, the less ability the enemy team has to shoot your teamates if and when they finally take you down. Conversely, your team needs to be with you or it's just running to your death. Avoid using laser weapons as the heat is more "sticky" that extra 10 points or 18 points of damage with the lasers with an assualt is typically not worth an SRM salvo or AC/20/twin lbx/10 salvo as it takes almost 3 seconds longer to start cooling again.
LRM boats get hot, they just do, the more missles you can eat while moving your team forward, the less punch the lrm boats will have by the time team gets into range.

I'm mainly an IS pilot so this is mainly for the Atlas and Stalker pilots (brawler spec). The AWS has that left arm to take damage with, the Centurian can take stupid amounts of punishment, Hunchbacks aren't too horrible either anymore.

As for lights, when you see the focus is on the assault mech, harass the enemy. You don't actually need to get up close and personal, just be annoying, it'll remove some of the focus from the assualts and something will try to chase after you removing some firepower from the lines and turning enemy mechs to "see what the red thingy is"

Pretty much the same mechanics you'd use if both sides had no ecm or both side have ecm. There's very little difference if people just pay attention to their surroundings. Really, only in LRM matches does the ECM have any meaningful existence.