40 replies to this topic

[MeiSooHaityu]

Ghogiel, on 09 December 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

and yet the TDR will tank harder than the CPLT which is actually oversized as any mech and has a fatter CT

Agreed. Tanking with a Catapult is never a good idea. Still, no amount of PPC quirks was going to help that. The structure buffs help, but yea...not enough for tanking.

Really, with the K2s fire support role, I wonder if it should have seen the PPC buff switched to ERPPC buffs and the Thunderbolt 9S gets PPC buffs instead.

[Kmieciu]

CPLT has a bigger profile than a Stalker, not to mention hitboxes. No amount of structure buff will help.
In a TDR I can turn sideways and you'll have to go through 60 HP of my arm and then 90 HP of my side torso, and then I'll get 50% damage reduction due to damage transfer. TDR tanks so well, that in competitive drops my team aims exclusively for the legs, while the CPLT eats double Gauss to the CT from extreme ranges.
You simply cannot shield your CT in a Catapult. Even if you torso twist, it's still an easy target.

Spoiler

Edited by Kmieciu, 09 December 2014 - 05:23 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

The Boz, on 09 December 2014 - 12:22 AM, said:

Yes, thanks for giving us a nearly-useless buff to an underpowered weapon!

yes! Instead of flattening the meta curve, and bringing other weapon combos closer to on par with the Meta builds, let's reinforce the Meta, and the diversity gap instead!!! Huzzzah!

Is that how you would prefer it? Is having the PPC carrier close the gap on the generic ballistic builds somehow a bad thing? Is making the Jagermech standout more as the "Ballistic HEavy" it's supposed ot be, instead of the K2, hurting diversity?

Then not seeing the issue.

The Boz, on 09 December 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

But it didn't get PPC quirks, it got *one* PPC quirk. A not impressive one, at that.

so 10% less heat to them PPCs (and attendant energy weapons) is not a useful buff.....

[MeiSooHaityu]

Kmieciu, on 09 December 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

CPLT has a bigger profile than a Stalker, not to mention hitboxes. No amount of structure buff will help.
In a TDR I can turn sideways and you'll have to go through 60 HP of my arm and then 90 HP of my side torso, and then I'll get 50% damage reduction due to damage transfer. TDR tanks so well, that in competitive drops my team aims exclusively for the legs, while the CPLT eats double Gauss to the CT from extreme ranges.
You simply cannot shield your CT in a Catapult. Even if you torso twist, it's still an easy target.

Spoiler

Didn't they revise the hitboxes since that photo? I thought they moved the "crotch" to the leg hitboxes.

Regardless, it isn't a tank. It is a long range fire support machine.

I think the saving grace for the K2 may be Dual PPC and Dual A/C5s. Long range fire support with PPCs, and if an enemy closes in a bit, fire both PPCs and A/Cs. If the PPC shot and A/C5 shell have similar velocities, it should work well.

[Bishop Steiner]

CPLT-K2
CPLT-K2

MeiSooHaityu, on 09 December 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

Didn't they revise the hitboxes since that photo? I thought they moved the "crotch" to the leg hitboxes.

Regardless, it isn't a tank. It is a long range fire support machine.

I think the saving grace for the K2 may be Dual PPC and Dual A/C5s. Long range fire support with PPCs, and if an enemy closes in a bit, fire both PPCs and A/Cs. If the PPC shot and A/C5 shell have similar velocities, it should work well.

Which is exactly why the "brawler" builds made little sense (though the Gauss A Pult, is still as effective as ever).

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 December 2014 - 05:53 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 December 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

Gauss A Pult, is still as effective as ever.

Gausspult is still as effective as the day it was obsoleted by Gaussjager.

[Prezimonto]

I used to run with AC5's and 2xPPC's... it was very effective until the PPC nerfs. I'll be happy to be going back to that build.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kmieciu, on 09 December 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

Gausspult is still as effective as the day it was obsoleted by Gaussjager.

Lol. Yes, uber slow Gauss Jagers, or massive barndoor XLs. Do love to see Gaussjagers in my 4G. Usually equals ez kill, move along.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 December 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

Lol. Yes, uber slow Gauss Jagers, or massive barndoor XLs. Do love to see Gaussjagers in my 4G. Usually equals ez kill, move along.

Ever see a Gauss Jager and blow the arm off before he even knows your there? I like doing that, it's fun. Heck, even if you just crit the arm, the gauss often goes boom anyway.

[Kmieciu]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 December 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

Lol. Yes, uber slow Gauss Jagers, or massive barndoor XLs. Do love to see Gaussjagers in my 4G. Usually equals ez kill, move along.

Jagers and Catapults have the same tonnage and engine restrictions, they are the same speed. JM6-DD has the same torso twist angle and speed as the CPLT-K2.

MeiSooHaityu, on 09 December 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

Ever see a Gauss Jager and blow the arm off before he even knows your there? I like doing that, it's fun. Heck, even if you just crit the arm, the gauss often goes boom anyway.

If you crit the gauss in a Catapult, the mech goes boom.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kmieciu, on 09 December 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

Jagers and Catapults have the same tonnage and engine restrictions, they are the same speed. JM6-DD has the same torso twist angle and speed as the CPLT-K2.


If you crit the gauss in a Catapult, the mech goes boom.

Except Catapults have tiny STs, and can run XLs rather safely, so can achieve speed without sacrificing overall durability.

Next?

[MeiSooHaityu]

Kmieciu, on 09 December 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

.
If you crit the gauss in a Catapult, the mech goes boom.

One of the reasons I always ran dual A/C 10s anyway...

However, the Catapult K2 does have smaller and less pronounced Side Torsos. A Gauss Jager has it's gauss hanging out rather pronounced and the lower armor values of an arm.

Now the K2 possibly being reliant on arm mounted PPCs will have a similar issue, but a K2 can carry a powerful backup torso weapon. However, the Jager once stripped might sport a mean pair of MLasers.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 09 December 2014 - 06:31 AM.

[The Boz]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 December 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

yes! Instead of flattening the meta curve, and bringing other weapon combos closer to on par with the Meta builds, let's reinforce the Meta, and the diversity gap instead!!! Huzzzah!

Is that how you would prefer it? Is having the PPC carrier close the gap on the generic ballistic builds somehow a bad thing? Is making the Jagermech standout more as the "Ballistic HEavy" it's supposed ot be, instead of the K2, hurting diversity?

Then not seeing the issue.


so 10% less heat to them PPCs (and attendant energy weapons) is not a useful buff.....

It's flattening the meta curve by pushing the AC5ML/MPL K2 out of the meta for the sake of "variety". Now, I'd normally be on-board if the K2 was outperforming similar mechs, but it wasn't.
Having a PPC carrier close the gap on the generic ballistic builds isn't a bad thing. And yes, actually, making the Jagermech the obvious "ballistic heavy" is hurting diversity. What's your argument here? You seem to be contrary just for the sake of being contrary.

[Bishop Steiner]

The Boz, on 09 December 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

It's flattening the meta curve by pushing the AC5ML/MPL K2 out of the meta for the sake of "variety". Now, I'd normally be on-board if the K2 was outperforming similar mechs, but it wasn't.
Having a PPC carrier close the gap on the generic ballistic builds isn't a bad thing. And yes, actually, making the Jagermech the obvious "ballistic heavy" is hurting diversity. What's your argument here? You seem to be contrary just for the sake of being contrary.

Um, no. Because making the K2 the obvious Go to ballistics chassis, meant that it was outperforming the Jager in that role. If you want ballistics, go Jager. Tank brawler, go Thud. Long range PPC/Missile support, Catapult. Making the K2 into yet another generic ballistic brawler gave it little purpose.

[The Boz]

...so, ballistics = brawling now?

[C E Dwyer]

shame they kept the ballistic buff for everything should have made it MG's only.

But I guess the cook cutter meta crowd would cry to many tears

[Mothykins]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 December 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

CPLT-K2
CPLT-K2




Which is exactly why the "brawler" builds made little sense (though the Gauss A Pult, is still as effective as ever).

CPLT-K2

CPLT-K2

Fixed those for you.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Cathy, on 09 December 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

shame they kept the ballistic buff for everything should have made it MG's only.

But I guess the cook cutter meta crowd would cry to many tears

It's only 10% additional range. Sure it helps, but it wasn't quite as nice as the previous 10% cool down.

So think of it this way...now MGs go 10% farther

[C E Dwyer]

MeiSooHaityu, on 09 December 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

It's only 10% additional range. Sure it helps, but it wasn't quite as nice as the previous 10% cool down.

So think of it this way...now MGs go 10% farther

Damn was hoping for a bite, Ma tha dang catfish gottaway agin.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Cathy, on 09 December 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

Damn was hoping for a bite, Ma tha dang catfish gottaway agin.

Lol