93 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

I like this discussion because it rates the Mechs by their dropweight. This is something PGI needs to understand, if they want to sell these mechs after we are all mostly in CW. There is no way anyone would take the Gargoyle in it's current state with only 240 tons to divide among 4 mechs.

I played in the MW4 Orbital Drop League wherein you bid total dropweight, which could be as little as 140 tons, and the way you win these matches is to get the best mechs for tonnage, configured in the best way. So you might take a Vulture (kind of flimsy in MW4) to get a killer assault on your team, etc.

So if PGI wants to sell these mechs they have to make them worth their tonnage and the Gargoyle can't justify 80 tons and might as well not have been made. In CW.

[MrZakalwe]

Lightfoot, on 10 December 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

I like this discussion because it rates the Mechs by their dropweight. This is something PGI needs to understand, if they want to sell these mechs after we are all mostly in CW. There is no way anyone would take the Gargoyle in it's current state with only 240 tons to divide among 4 mechs.

I played in the MW4 Orbital Drop League wherein you bid total dropweight, which could be as little as 140 tons, and the way you win these matches is to get the best mechs for tonnage, configured in the best way. So you might take a Vulture (kind of flimsy in MW4) to get a killer assault on your team, etc.

So if PGI wants to sell these mechs they have to make them worth their tonnage and the Gargoyle can't justify 80 tons and might as well not have been made. In CW.

It also doesn't justify an assault slot in 3/3/3/3.

[Apocryph0n]

Yup. Concerning the LBX20 and PPC fit above: A stormcrow packs twice the amount of fire power sadly

The only thing that makes it "special" is:

You can aim for an "All 90kph Team" and run circles around King Crabs and Atlai while poking them with your abysmal amount of damage until they die (in 3/3/3/3 that is, for tonnage based it's still better to just bring 12 Timbers or Stormcrows then )

(tried that with ranged builds in group queue yesterday and it worked against KGC heavy teams)

Edited by Apocryph0n, 10 December 2014 - 06:02 AM.

[Grantham Besat]

They should have left it 1 1 1 1 and 140 to 240 to really force the diversity.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I haven't played it enough yet to declare it DOA but my first match out, got 2 solid kills and managed about 400 damage. I may change my evaluation when I get alot more matches in on it but I would say it is a Tier 3 from first impressions. It really feels alot like a Hellbringer without ECM but with more armor and honestly more durability however that may just be due to the fact people haven't quite figured out how best to kill them yet.

[Lily from animove]

Grantham Besat, on 10 December 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

They should have left it 1 1 1 1 and 140 to 240 to really force the diversity.

that would also not be balanced at all, and reduce the diverity even moree people would go 75t + 55t + 90t + 20t. as much as possible, and clanners would go WHK, TBR; SCR, lynx.

[Grantham Besat]

Clanners already will go to those mechs but I bet you that the lack of 1 1 1 1 means many drop decks will be maybe 2 or 3mech types instead of 4.

[MrZakalwe]

Grantham Besat, on 10 December 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

Clanners already will go to those mechs but I bet you that the lack of 1 1 1 1 means many drop decks will be maybe 2 or 3mech types instead of 4.

So instead of balancing the mechs just force people to play the crap ones.

That sounds fun.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Looks like the Gargoyle suffers from FF syndrome, just like the Summoner.

Apparently any mech equipped with FF over ES gets the shaft when it comes to viability.

[Mordin Ashe]

I'm sorry, my UAC20+4xCERML Stormcrow will kill this thing any day of the week. Heat limits both Mechs, but when you run around the corner and see a DW sitting there looking at you, you need the speed, damage, hitboxes and agility to deal with what may therwise kill you. Garg simply isn't there to survive such encounter.

[Lily from animove]

MrZakalwe, on 10 December 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

It also doesn't justify an assault slot in 3/3/3/3.

The keyword is cost of opportunatey, and I guess this is what many do not understand.

brining an GAR means getting a worse TBR on the field by restricting a slot that a DWf could use. Thats a very bad choice for the entire team and their possible setup if a true 3/3/3/3 should happen.

Edited by Lily from animove, 10 December 2014 - 07:24 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Mister D, on 10 December 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

Looks like the Gargoyle suffers from FF syndrome, just like the Summoner.

Apparently any mech equipped with FF over ES gets the shaft when it comes to viability.

not entirely, actually its the way to where the additional tonnage goes that was made free.
SCR has both, yet it has used quite some of that additional tonnage into its engine. BUT it has not any fixed DHS in the engine, meanign lots of free customisation possible.

TBR has some fied DHS, but since its using a lot E weapons as well, thats not a problem. those DHS a well invested.

WHK suffers, because it has many fixed DHS making ballistic builds having a lot useless tonnage wasted on DHS you don't need.

SMN suffers from the fixed JJ's not allowing much alternates + its few hardpoints.

and the GARG has a big big issue. it has invested a lot of the tonnage into the Engine + fixed heatsinks. Meaning any B loadout is in a big disadvantage. being fats is mostly important for hit and run, but big ballistics are brawl. So you wasted tonnage into engine and DHS that aren't needed in the brawls. consequence: the emch tends to be used as a laser vomit build. But here it can not compete to the TBR, which has the same speed slightly less armor but can use this for real firepower + cooling.

The GAR has no specific role where the fixed stuff (big engine and 6 DHS) do actually make him exceed other mechs. the TBR can do it better. the WHK can do the energy assault better by bringing punch + cooling.
there is nothing unique at the GAR to make him worth to consider.

It's not a bad mech, it is working quite good but its not sticking out at all and there are just better choices for it's job. which leads me to the fact that the TBR still needs a nerf, the TBR is makign too many other mechs obsolete by being the jack of all trades and exceeding the others. Thats not a TBR hate, just a matter of facts.

[DONTOR]

Now that I think about the arm movement being "bad" I remembered, the TBR, Summoner, Hellbringer, and Vulture are all mechs that go 90KPH also. They all have the same arm movement angles as the Gargoyle, when equipped with ballistics in one arm and actuators in the other. So pretty sure that is a moot point.

I didnt test this but I am fairly sure of it.

Edited by DONTOR, 10 December 2014 - 07:44 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

While FASA really never cared about a 3D enviroment, PGI should when designing a 'Mech. Past and current design philosophy seem to be centered around an artwork, with no thoughts about hitboxes, weapons placements, scale, etc.. "The players will tell us what to do". Great, just great.

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 10 December 2014 - 09:30 AM.