101 replies to this topic

[The Boz]

Tastian, on 09 December 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

If you see them starting to push, don't just wait for them to die; push with them.

Good luck herding them cats, cowboy!

[Escef]

I know this is going to sound crazy, but the assaults need to support the team and the team needs to support the assaults. The strength of the wolf is the pack, the strength of the pack is the wolf.

[Joseph Mallan]

luxebo, on 09 December 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

Which should NOT be in the base camping when the rest are pushing or should NOT be hiding in a little hole like if it's Christmas. Well then again....

You know How man Dire Wolves I pass up that are walking backwards cause a Griffin or a Blackjack shot them... My suggestion is if you are walking faster than 55 KpH and you want your Kings to lead the assault... Slow Down and let them take lead!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 December 2014 - 06:47 AM.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

In my most honest reply...

If you find a bunch of King Crabs or assaults in general boating LRM's or staying in the background... bring the issue to your team, elect to play defensively, then move BEHIND your LRM Meatshield assaults, and fire around them.

They'll get the message quick. If not, it might be boring but they are there technically to soak up enemy fire so the rest can return it.

Change up the "Charge, counterclockwise rotation" mentality when people do things like that. As much as I hate to see slower assaults not assaulting or manuvering in lieu of being a missile turret... the only other option is do adapt. If not, then you're the only one to blame in not supporting them. Pug life, the ultimate test in a 12 man random think tank. Adapt, improvise, and carry the hell out of it.

Edited by 00ohDstruct, 10 December 2014 - 07:12 AM.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 December 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

You know How man Dire Wolves I pass up that are walking backwards cause a Griffin or a Blackjack shot them... My suggestion is if you are walking faster than 55 KpH and you want your Kings to lead the assault... Slow Down and let them take lead!

Another great point. Support your fatties. If you want them to assault, then get behind them, not in front of them. It's not NASMECH, and don't complain when you don't have your assaults if they have to set up a last stand line early to keep their rears from getting shot off because the rest of the team left them in the dust. Damned River City Nightmare.

[Gyrok]

RagingShrubbery, on 09 December 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:

Just gotta say, if "some guy" tells you to push up, ignore him unless you have a damn good reason to. Pushing is only a good tactic in a murderball. Sure assaults are front line units, but it doesnt matter how tough you are when the whole enemy team is firing on you.

Ive seen far too many assaults push aggresively only to end up losing a large chunk of your team weight for no reason. There's a time and a place for pushing, and a well armored assault is devestating to a worn out team.

This mentality is the reason pushes do not work.

Pushing is ALWAYS a valid tactic, and ALWAYS works en masse, however, if you do not push as a group you will fail. If someone ask/tells you to push, and they are driving an assault mech...it means THEY are pushing right now...so, PLEASE help them.

YOU are the reason an assault says "PUSH" and walks out into a hail of gunfire with no support.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Why the hell would i tank when corner peek-a-boo and similar tactics in pug games will get me 800-1000 damage and multiple kills.That,in my opinion helps a lot more the team than dying gloriously with sub 300 damage.
And for a reference,i pilot fast assaults,mainly laserboat-Battlemasters.
And i pilot them like glass cannons,deal with it.
Im sick and tired finding myself alone in the enemy spearhead riding the heat line and desperately fending off 2-3 lights.

[Barantor]

Also remember that an Awesome, Victor and a Battlemaster are not an Atlas.

If I have an 8Q with PPCs I am really about in line with a Jaegermech, so don't expect me to push around a corner with it like I am an Atlas loaded with SRMs AC20 and a hell of a lot more armor.

"Why didn't you push Awesome?"

"Because I'm in an Awesome?"

This isn't to say that I wouldn't help a flanking push on an enemy engaged with the rest of the team; in fact I do that quite a bit. Just don't expect the Awesome or the other lighter Assaults to be any better than a heavy.

[Gyrok]

Cookiemonter669, on 10 December 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

Why the hell would i tank when corner peek-a-boo and similar tactics in pug games will get me 800-1000 damage and multiple kills.That,in my opinion helps a lot more the team than dying gloriously with sub 300 damage.
And for a reference,i pilot fast assaults,mainly laserboat-Battlemasters.
And i pilot them like glass cannons,deal with it.
Im sick and tired finding myself alone in the enemy spearhead riding the heat line and desperately fending off 2-3 lights.

I see your problem...you are doing it wrong.

[Latorque]

Problem is; huddling up in one corner of the map doesn't work that well either it seems. I guess the term is area denial; best example is either Frozen City or Caustic Valley; both trigger an enormous urge to cling to the spawn spot; and in both cases it ends up in getting blasted to pieces while being surrounded; and mechs walking in the line of fire of their team thanks to unfortunate positioning.

Since i was in a Flame 75% of my overall play time; sitting in a glass cannon going 100kph which is higly dependant on the rest of the team coming up; it gives you a pretty skewed perspective on the whole "push" issue: if you have to sprint back after more than 2 minutes into the match; it's gonna be a defeat (if i can't sprint back; i'm persumably dead thanks to being careless in a squishy mech)

[kapusta11]

Yes we need more Rambo guys!

[Killstorm999999]

Assaults shouldn't always be up in front. If you are up front then you are instantly committed to any engagement that comes your way. It is probably better to hang back while the mediums and heavies engage/probe the enemy, and then once the right opportunity is found, the assaults can commit and brawl in earnest. Assaults are very unforgiving and being out of position is a death sentence, so don't commit to a position until you have proper knowledge of enemies location!

[Kraven Kor]

The problem is that the guy in front dies.

Assault mech or no, you turn the corner to face 4-6 enemy mechs and be the meat shield, you die in a hail of lasers and missiles and autocannon shells. Usually while those same "timid" players all try and take advantage of your moment of suicidal bravery and get some shots in.

True story.

What is supposed to happen, in my opinion, is your assault mechs and heavies should form a front line and take turns drawing a bit of fire and backing off - spreading the enemy's damage around. Alternately, and usually more effective, you all push at once and give them too many targets.

Both are hard to manage in a PUG match.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Honestly I don't think Assaults are really good brawlers.. It's more effective to slowly expand a zone of control that gives your mediums and lights somewhere safe to retreat.

You can camp a corner in a King Crab or DWF, say the tunnel exits on Crimson Straight and give the rest of your team a huge amount of map to work with, while you punish any attempt the enemy takes to push. Then your snipers, LRM boats, lights and mediums can work around the enemy and find good angles for shots.

Certainly assaults should be at the front, but "pushing" as most people expect of you just ends up getting you killed way early to focus fire.

Edited by vnlk65n, 10 December 2014 - 07:54 AM.

[xeromynd]

I'd like to remind everyone that there are people (like me) who received the King Crab reward for pre-ordering a pack of which the highest tier mech isn't (or wasn't until yesterday ) released yet, and have NEVER played large 90-100 Ton Assault mechs before. We pre-ordered the highest tier pack not for the top level (Assault) mechs, but because we wanted to support the game. Thus: we now have a KCG and are thinking "welp, might as well see what it's made of."

So far, the matches I've been in have had a pleasant leniency and understanding that many new pilots are just trying the KCG because they got it for free, which is good. But I've had a select few matches where we were told to PUSH or tank damage, when three of the four KCG's had never even played Assaults before, followed by disparaging comments etc...

I must also add that if you tell your Assaults to push up, and don't have any intention of backing them up in any way (be it from the front, or from lights in the rear) you're a bit of a scumbag.

[luxebo]

nitra, on 09 December 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

trust me your not on a island , just trying to illuminate the mindset of some of those assault pilots who always seem to come up at the very end of battle full health and wreak havoc on the remains of the enemy team ..
thought it might be quite funny. hope it was worth least a chuckle.

Every single time there be an assault leftover (or even multiple guys), those guys always get destroyed within the next minute since they are so huge. A light can take out so much of the enemy if skilled, same as a Medium. Heavies and Assaults get destroyed in the back end quickly. I've tried that and ended up getting my core pierced from yellow to instant death (the shut down ambush at base).

Cookiemonter669, on 10 December 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

Why the hell would i tank when corner peek-a-boo and similar tactics in pug games will get me 800-1000 damage and multiple kills.That,in my opinion helps a lot more the team than dying gloriously with sub 300 damage.
And for a reference,i pilot fast assaults,mainly laserboat-Battlemasters.
And i pilot them like glass cannons,deal with it.
Im sick and tired finding myself alone in the enemy spearhead riding the heat line and desperately fending off 2-3 lights.

Fast assaults don't need to tank, I'm directing towards mostly assaults that are designed to tank. Those assaults made to push, capable of taking the blunt and sending it back. If you were in an Awesome, that is a terrible idea to tank, but in an Atlas or a King Crab, then you have the maximum amount of armor in the front. Don't stand at 1000 m and snipe people with AC20s. Awesomes are designed to slug it out at range, not in close range. Similar to most Battlemasters.

xeromynd, on 10 December 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

I'd like to remind everyone that there are people (like me) who received the King Crab reward for pre-ordering a pack of which the highest tier mech isn't (or wasn't until yesterday ) released yet, and have NEVER played large 90-100 Ton Assault mechs before. We pre-ordered the highest tier pack not for the top level (Assault) mechs, but because we wanted to support the game. Thus: we now have a KCG and are thinking "welp, might as well see what it's made of."
So far, the matches I've been in have had a pleasant leniency and understanding that many new pilots are just trying the KCG because they got it for free, which is good. But I've had a select few matches where we were told to PUSH or tank damage, when three of the four KCG's had never even played Assaults before, followed by disparaging comments etc...
I must also add that if you tell your Assaults to push up, and don't have any intention of backing them up in any way (be it from the front, or from lights in the rear) you're a bit of a scumbag.

I wrote this post to tell all the fellow new guys in KGCs and don't quite have experience with them. I would like to see more people take their roles and what they should be attempting at least. Even if the assault doesn't make it then at least he tried. And definitely support pushing assaults. I once pushed told everyone to push yet I went in myself and took 6 people in a row before dying. Not a single guy supported me and therefore we actually lost.

Kraven Kor, on 10 December 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

The problem is that the guy in front dies.
Assault mech or no, you turn the corner to face 4-6 enemy mechs and be the meat shield, you die in a hail of lasers and missiles and autocannon shells. Usually while those same "timid" players all try and take advantage of your moment of suicidal bravery and get some shots in.
True story.
What is supposed to happen, in my opinion, is your assault mechs and heavies should form a front line and take turns drawing a bit of fire and backing off - spreading the enemy's damage around. Alternately, and usually more effective, you all push at once and give them too many targets.
Both are hard to manage in a PUG match.

If it was anything but an assault in front he dies sooner than later. An assault can take a lot of damage. Agreed with the last part that frontliners should spread damage upon each other and not lose too much per man, exactly what I stated.
If nobody was in the front... then everyone in the middle ground is the front. If no one is in the middle... then everyone is in the back areas (bases capping etc), which turns to the front. Therefore if you are there in the back then you are completely screwed. Someone will end up in the frontlines.

Remember, my main point is that if you are a brawling guy, then go towards the front. Be a team player. Don't slack behind unless you are designed for that (LRM boating or sniping).

Edited by luxebo, 10 December 2014 - 02:19 PM.

[Coolant]

I think the OP is confusing a fictional universe with actual game play. Assault or no assault, you should not be rushing in whether you are 20 tons or 100 tons. Do NOT expect me, just because I'm piloting an assault to rush in and absorb all damage and die so you can get free shots. Did you happen to think that perhaps some Assault pilots have patience when you do not? If you don't want to rush ahead, then don't. If the Assaults stay right where they are at, perhaps you should. If the Assaults aren't moving and you expect them to be the damage shield then stand behind them and don't move. It's people like you that have no patience that blame everyone else but themselves....

[luxebo]

Coolant, on 10 December 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

I think the OP is confusing a fictional universe with actual game play. Assault or no assault, you should not be rushing in whether you are 20 tons or 100 tons. Do NOT expect me, just because I'm piloting an assault to rush in and absorb all damage and die so you can get free shots. Did you happen to think that perhaps some Assault pilots have patience when you do not? If you don't want to rush ahead, then don't. If the Assaults stay right where they are at, perhaps you should. If the Assaults aren't moving and you expect them to be the damage shield then stand behind them and don't move. It's people like you that have no patience that blame everyone else but themselves....

You should never be rushing straight in. This is not what I am asking for. I am asking for assaults to play as a team supporter and not let the rest of the team tank damage for them; this is not the purpose of an assault. Some assaults have their respective roles therefore can get an exception (fast raider types, lighter assaults, lrm boats, long long long ranged support, etc), but the heavier King Crabs should go up to the fight especially if your weapons are mostly under 200 meters in range. Why ever fight faraway with AC20s? You are barely doing damage and more than likely wasting ammo.

I don't advocate rushing in and quickly dying. I advocate people to spread damage among each other and push when called for. There are times in need of a strong push, if this is the case then go. Don't sit back and cap. And I am not blaming anyone specifically, I'm saying learn from this point, especially those that have their first ever 100 tonner. I have had experience as a DDC for ages and also have run other assaults, maybe later on I'd pick up a King Crab considering how they've run over all Atlases.

By sitting back with the assaults this tends to encounter the same issues as I've mentioned.

luxebo, on 10 December 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

If nobody was in the front... then everyone in the middle ground is the front. If no one is in the middle... then everyone is in the back areas (bases capping etc), which turns to the front. Therefore if you are there in the back then you are completely screwed. Someone will end up in the frontlines.

And in every case it's better if 100 tons of armor and firepower lead rather than let some Lolcust go forward and lead a push. A good flank or push can startle an enemy quickly and destroy everything in a well defended position. I have patience if you call for it but saying nothing means that one isn't a team player much, if at all. Communication is also a key thing that people have to master, which is why I argue for VOIP, which will be crucial in the future with CW.

King Crabs need to be up there more often than not. Don't risk yourself, this is not what I'm asking for, but play at your respective range. Have people in the front, in the back, and all over the place; this is how people win.

Edited by luxebo, 10 December 2014 - 04:05 PM.

[Master Pain]

I will never be in the front with my KGC. The rest of the team runs away from me so fast, they must think my mech has leprosy.

[Fishbulb333]

Assault mechs are tank-destroyers, not (MMO style damage sponge) tanks. Yes they have more armor than other mechs, big whoop. Mobility (and to a lesser extent, size) helps with survivability in this game infinitely more than having some extra armor. Also, it is not the assault class' responsibilty to babysit and protect the smaller guys. Are the assaults pushing somewhere? Neat, you should follow them. Are they staying back for some reason? You probably should too.