27 replies to this topic

[Astrifer]

I'm gonna throw out a few thoughts here.

King Crab has approximately the same free ton space as the direwolf if you add on endosteel. By weight, the ferrous armor takes up less than the standard armor on the direwolf, and so provides more armor pound for pound. It's height profile is lower than the dire or even the warhawk, PLUS all of its torso weapons are mounted at the very top, which allows it to snipe by hill humping, which is what direwolf and warhawk cannot do. Plus, you can modify the king crab regarding its engine size, and I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe it also has more crit space available.
NOT to mention that king crab gets quirks, unlike the direwolf!! And its ridiculous torso turn rate, which let will let it track and fire upon any mech that tries to run by it.

-> Bottom line, King Crab is a superior mech to the direwolf on multiple points, and is therefore hands down not only the best assault mech in the game, but also the best mech in the game across all weight classes.


Gargoyle, on the other hand, takes up an assault mech spot. It runs as fast as many of the clan medium and heavy mechs. However, it has approximately 5 less free ton space compared to the timberwolf and the same amount of free ton space as the hellbringer or summoner. Unlike these aforementioned mechs, however, it has the profile of an atlas, and it doesn't have jumpjets. It's armor also puts it right between the timberwolf and the warhawk.

-> Bottom line, gargoyle is inferior to the timberwolf or hellbringer. It can't bring the same maneuverability by JJ, firepower, or ecm of those mechs, and yet it occupies the higher weight assault class spot that could go to a warhawk or direwolf. It's got the size of an atlas but much less armor.

I'd discuss more ,but I have to eat.

Edited by Astrifer, 09 December 2014 - 06:29 PM.

[Tastian]

CW drop deck doesn't care about weight class; it cares about total tonnage.

[Brody319]

IS FF armor takes up a **** ton of slots, and why anyone would use it on anything but a select few mechs is really annoying. Clan FF usually only takes up like a slot in each mech because its hard wired and it rarely gets in the way. Is FF is always in the way.

[cacti46]

Tastian, on 09 December 2014 - 05:58 PM, said:

CW drop deck doesn't care about weight class; it cares about total tonnage.

but again, why would anyone in their right mind bring a gargoyle into a fight in CW, it's a steaming pile when compared to anything in the clan heavy class even the hellbringer. thats sad.

[Mawai]

Brody319, on 09 December 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

IS FF armor takes up a **** ton of slots, and why anyone would use it on anything but a select few mechs is really annoying. Clan FF usually only takes up like a slot in each mech because its hard wired and it rarely gets in the way. Is FF is always in the way.

The upgrade order in terms of tonnage saved is DHS, Endo, FF (for IS mechs since you can't change these on a clan mech). On a 100 ton mech you get 5 tons for endo and less for FF. If you need the crit slots then you never use FF. The only mechs that I have with both endo and FF are selected lights or rare mediums that don't need the crit spaces for the weapon loadouts but can use the extra tonnage.

DHS are first since with any engine over 250 ... you get the equivalent of 20 single heat sinks in the engine which saves you 10 tons and 10 critical slots over the equivalent cooling using single heat sinks.

[Astrifer]

delete

And it looks totally badass.

Edited by Astrifer, 09 December 2014 - 06:26 PM.

[Milocinia]

So clanner complains when the IS finally have something to square up to the DW with?

[Redacted]

DW was "OP" for too long and now the IS has an equivalent. Cue the QQ about how clan superiority is being eroded away. Well cry me a river.

Tip for you, use your superior range to be... well, you know superior. [Redacted]

[Redacted]

Edited by John Wolf, 10 December 2014 - 06:19 AM.
Unconstructive

[LordKnightFandragon]

Kyocera, on 09 December 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

So clanner complains when the IS finally have something to square up to the DW with?

[Redacted]

DW was "OP" for too long and now the IS has an equivalent. Cue the QQ about how clan superiority is being eroded away. Well cry me a river.

Tip for you, use your superior range to be... well, you know superior. [Redacted]

[Redacted]

Superior range is irrelevant in a game where we get 2x range and double the armor. Make weapons 1x range an the Clan range might mean a bit more. But the distances when mechs first start firing is atleast within the 2x range of IS weapons, allowing them to return fire. Give us 1x range, where we cant fire at 1300m and deal any damage. Where a IS Medium has to get to 270m where the clans can keep you at 405m. Where a Clan LL is 700m and the IS can only reach out to 450m. Then the "Use clan range" might hold some water....

Edited by John Wolf, 10 December 2014 - 06:19 AM.
Moderated Quote

[-Natural Selection-]

Kyocera, on 09 December 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

So clanner complains when the IS finally have something to square up to the DW with?

[Redacted]

Do not see where he complained about anything. Only gave his thoughts on the 2 mechs.

issues much?

Edited by John Wolf, 10 December 2014 - 06:19 AM.
Moderated Quote

[LordKnightFandragon]

The Vision in that King Crab is horrible. I dont mount hanging items on the top of my cockpit cuz it blocks so much upward vision, yet this KGC is cursed with poor upward vision.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Astrifer, on 09 December 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

I'm gonna throw out a few thoughts here.

King Crab has approximately the same free ton space as the direwolf if you add on endosteel. By weight, the ferrous armor takes up less than the standard armor on the direwolf, and so provides more armor pound for pound. It's height profile is lower than the dire or even the warhawk, PLUS all of its torso weapons are mounted at the very top, which allows it to snipe by hill humping, which is what direwolf and warhawk cannot do. Plus, you can modify the king crab regarding its engine size, and I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe it also has more crit space available.
NOT to mention that king crab gets quirks, unlike the direwolf!! And its ridiculous torso turn rate, which let will let it track and fire upon any mech that tries to run by it.

-> Bottom line, King Crab is a superior mech to the direwolf on multiple points, and is therefore hands down not only the best assault mech in the game, but also the best mech in the game across all weight classes.


Gargoyle, on the other hand, takes up an assault mech spot. It runs as fast as many of the clan medium and heavy mechs. However, it has approximately 5 less free ton space compared to the timberwolf and the same amount of free ton space as the hellbringer or summoner. Unlike these aforementioned mechs, however, it has the profile of an atlas, and it doesn't have jumpjets. It's armor also puts it right between the timberwolf and the warhawk.

-> Bottom line, gargoyle is inferior to the timberwolf or hellbringer. It can't bring the same maneuverability by JJ, firepower, or ecm of those mechs, and yet it occupies the higher weight assault class spot that could go to a warhawk or direwolf. It's got the size of an atlas but much less armor.

I'd discuss more ,but I have to eat.

I wouldn't go as far as to say the King Crab is any better than the Dire. Weight is not everything. Honestly I find myself having plenty of weight on my Crab but no where near enough Crits. Endo does give you 5 tons but at the cost of 14 Crits. IS DHS take up 3 crits instead of 2. Weapons take up more crits. Basically there isn't enough crits.

Honestly it is a good mech and because of its maneuverability and torso twist I think it is more fun, but in a straight up slugging mech, Dire is going to win most of the time.

[Milocinia]

I doubt any of the clammers complaining right now about the Crab were willing to listen to complaints about the Dire being OP.

Heh what goes around comes around suckers.

[Wolfwood592]

I don't really know what the big problems are, the crab is just as easy to put down as the dire and is in no way carrying more weapons.

NOW, that being said, the gargoyle on the other hand? You guys need that fixed ASAP

[Brody319]

Kyocera, on 09 December 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

I doubt any of the clammers complaining right now about the Crab were willing to listen to complaints about the Dire being OP.

Heh what goes around comes around suckers.

I didn't care nor do I care that the IS got the King crab.
However since they do have the King Crab I want them to stop bitching about the Direwolf.

[Milocinia]

Brody319, on 09 December 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

I didn't care nor do I care that the IS got the King crab.
However since they do have the King Crab I want them to stop bitching about the Direwolf.

I never bitched about the DW but like you say I hope the IS now stop moaning about it.

[Sjorpha]

Even though you can get a lot of pod space, It still has nothing on the Dire when it comes to firepower because IS weapons are so much heavier and endo/ferro takes up so many crits.

What makes the Crab a more or less equal match for the Dire is their superior agility, I feel they are both in a good place. They will probably be about equal in once the Crabs are leveled up.

[Wolfwood592]

Sjorpha, on 09 December 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

Even though you can get a lot of pod space, It still has nothing on the Dire when it comes to firepower because IS weapons are so much heavier and endo/ferro takes up so many crits.

What makes the Crab a more or less equal match for the Dire is their superior agility, I feel they are both in a good place. They will probably be about equal in once the Crabs are leveled up.

Completely agree. Ive ran toe to toe with at least 3 whales and its been luck as to who walked away

[Lightfoot]

The only thing that would make the Gargoyle worth using was if it was very tough (Quirks) and agile (more Quirks) because it has no weapons that a medium could not carry at much faster speed.

PGI needs to do better basic balancing of the Clan tech readouts of the mechs with their chosen system of operating the Clan Mechlab. Mechlab is a MechWarrior feature (not in Battle Tech), but MWO basically has a Closed Mechlab for Clan mechs and an Open Mechlab for Inner Sphere mechs. So they need to either open more fixed options on the Clan mechs or fudge a bit on the stock config. A smaller engine or removable jump jets, etc.

.

Edited by Lightfoot, 10 December 2014 - 05:26 AM.

[The Great Unwashed]

I'm also a bit disappointed with the second Wave clan mechs. I tried the Gargoyle yesterday and had some 500+D games (awful really) but once the crabs starts hitting you it's as if its an all CT mech. It carries less firepower than a Stormcrow and that one really does much better and also does not take a Timberwolf out of the heavy queue.

Adding endo steel would be nice and damn to lore; nobody in their right mind would design a mech this way.

[Widowmaker1981]

Lightfoot, on 10 December 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

The only thing that would make the Gargoyle worth using was if it was very tough (Quirks) because it has no weapons that a medium could not carry at much faster speed.

After seeing the final products I will not buy any more Clan Paks. Too many worthless mechs and no one at PGI seems to understand basic balancing of the Clan tech readouts of the mechs and their chosen system of operating the Clan Mechlab. Mechlab is a MechWarrior feature (not in Battle Tech), but MWO's basically has a Closed Mechlab for Clan mechs and an Open Mechlab for Inner Sphere mechs.

This has not worked out correctly, fairly, for many of the Clan Mechs, however there seems to be no comprehension of this failure at PGI. So from now on I will revue all the Clan Mechs and buy only those that manage to work under PGI's rules set for the Clan Mechlab.

You are right, but the remaining mechs to be released on clan side all have good build choices - PGI are out of bad clan mechs to release so the next pack will probably be mostly worth it:

Light: Arctic cheetah - 30t, XL240, endo, ferro, JJs, prime has 4E / 2M and torso mounted ECM
Medium: Huntsman - 50t, XL250, endo, ferro, JJs, prime has good hardpoints
Heavy: Cauldron Born - 65t, XL325, endo, ferro, 30 tons of pod space. first non assualt that can run twin gauss.

every other clan omnimech is out of timeline or has MASC.

Assault will suck, just dont buy it (probs the 90T Kingfisher with a STD 360)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 10 December 2014 - 01:25 AM.