146 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 December 2014 - 11:02 PM, said:

I hope you understand that not only is it important that MWO changes for the better, it's also important that MWO actually is a good game when stacked up next to other popular titles out there.

People who are suffering from PTMD also must be provided closure, regardless of how, or a lot of wounds will never heal. PGI's been doing a lot better lately, and I have some actual, real hope for 2015, but we'll see what actually happens once they show us CW.

Even though my own interest in MWO has been fading as of recently, I still hope this game flourishes, and that those mechwarriors who are left finally get the game they've been promised for so long. I also hope that PGI's learned their lessons from 2014 and 2013 now.

When they put MWO on steam, I want to be the first one to review it, and I want my review to be positive.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 10 December 2014 - 11:09 PM.

[ollo]

Vassago Rain, on 10 December 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

That's totally pay to win, dude. Locking all the best items behind a paywall for 6 months, while refusing to nerf or tamper with said items during that timeframe is so P2W, it'd make nexon proud.

Please name it P2W/L then, because some of the crappiest mechs available sit behind the same paywall. (I'm looking at you, gorilla spider! And at you, "the fridge", too... Haven't had time to try the Man-o-almost-an-Assault yet...)

[Apnu]

mike29tw, on 10 December 2014 - 10:00 PM, said:

Glad to know that you can't put up any counter argument regarding my point. Wanna try again? Here, let me make it easier to you.

No, I already made my point. You can go back and read it any time.

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 10 December 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

Why not? I actually hate when a franchise is adapted to work with a F2P structure..

There have been LOT of good and awesome MW videogames before MWO, all with their flaws, but they have had good things neverthless. MW2 was amazingly immersive (especially when you are 7-8 y.o.), MW3 was the best simulator of the series i think, MW4 had a lot of 'Mechs and lot of multiplayer possibilities (and MW4 Mercs also had an intriguing campaign that left the player some choices), MWLL is just awesome, the first true BattleTech game, the MechCommander series is good too..

Actually, the perfect MW game , in my opinion, cannot be a F2P. It should be a very open project like Star Citizen, with community-created content. I bet CIG would be the only software house that could create a truly big, immersive and awesome MechWarrior game. Imagine Star Citizen with a focus on 'Mechs instead of ships, but keeping a space combat and travel component ...

Yes Please!

[Apnu]

CtrlAltWheee, on 10 December 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

F2P is perfectly fine. However, there's lots of variation between LoL, warframe, and MWO.

Don't malign the whole concept based on MWO's implementation.

I love MWO. My hope is that they'll change their model soon because I'm at a point where I don't really need more mechs. I have more than 50. I need other ways to support the game and I think others might be in the same situation.

The game is not p2w it's just poorly monetized.

1. The larger mechs are too expensive to be microtransactions.
2. The camo price points and setup are silly. I pay for the mech pack. The prime variant has locked paint scheme. They ask 750 mc for a permanent camo that I can only use on 2 of the variants. Or I buy a one time use for 75 mc. I'd need to change camos 10 times across those 2 variants to justify the purchase. And if I buy the 75 mc one-time use it's a disincentive to purchase another because I lose what I bought.
3. Hero mechs are in a strange place. The game is not f2p but I agree that hero mechs have to be purposefully not too good and also not so bad that nobody buys them. It's awkward.

Better setup:

1. Change the camo pricing. If I want to buy a camo for one variant X price permanent purchase. Maybe 100 mc per camo and I can buy lots for my favorite mech and COLLECT them. Let me enjoy fully customizing my favorite mech.
2. I'm ok if they do away with custom hardpoint hero mechs.
3. There might be 10 normal mechs that I love playing. Let me use MC to upgrade my favorite mechs to hero bonus 30% c-bills. Over time I might end up hero-ifying a dozen mechs and it further allows me to customize and enjoy the mechs I love to play as.
4. Sell custom geometry as a microtransaction. Please! I buy all the packs. I'm am doubly happy for other people to have it too. The design is already completed. Let it work for you over time.
5. Sell custom hangars. I'll buy 5 hangars to suit my mood like changing desktops. Or change hangars when I change factions clan to Marik. Don't charge up the ass for it. Just something cool that gives us the opportunity to support PGI and take pleasure in the richness of BT universe.

Lots of other great ideas available from a very passionate and savvy playerbase.

This is a supreme critique. Beautiful. To all the snarky trolls and haters, this is how its done.

[WhoopieMonster]

Vassago Rain, on 10 December 2014 - 11:08 PM, said:

People who are suffering from PTMD also must be provided closure, regardless of how, or a lot of wounds will never heal. PGI's been doing a lot better lately, and I have some actual, real hope for 2015, but we'll see what actually happens once they show us CW.

The thing is, these so called PTMD people are in the minority and I for one am bored of hearing about it. Suck it up or let it go. All you seem to do is spout negativity and then caveat it with "but I hope MWO does well". It really is getting wearisome.

MWO biggest issue was its stuttering start, poor decision making and some questionable changes. But it is clearly getting over that and moving forward making progress, fixing long standing issues, they respond to player feedback, fix newly introduced bugs quickly, and moving forward with CW next week. I get the past is important, but this is a game and as such should be treated as such. Dwell on past slights and wrong doings and you can quickly become bitter and twisted. Getting all bent out of shape over a game is sad and if it makes you feel that way then just let it go.

MWO has somethings behind a paywall, like Hero mechs, but they are not the top mechs. In fact some of them suck. What they do is increase the speed at which you earn ingame currency and xp, but you already know this. Beyond hero mechs there is nothing in this game that cannot be gained with a combination of C-Bills and GXP.

Buying clan mech waves gets you the mechs early, nothing more. If those mechs are broken or op that is not an idication of P2W, it means the devs sucked at balancing them and that is seperate issues. Unless of course your implying that *dons tin foil hat* they deliberately release broken mechs so more people buy it!?!. If I used MC to buy new mechs, equipment and modules and unlock skills that would take you months to aquire, is that P2W? The principle is the same.

Edited by WhoopieMonster, 11 December 2014 - 06:42 AM.

[Xigunder Blue]

You might try this on for size. PVE players outnumber PVP players by a very large factor. Players of a disconnected match game (World of Tanks for ex...) tend to drift toward other games within a year. New players for such games (as MWO is right now) become fewer and fewer thus giving birth to big 'sales' to get more income. CW is an attempt to add 'immersion'
and some continuity to the game. I truly hope CW1 is a step toward cohesion and immersion in the Battletech genre. The problem is still continuity. Hopefully CW2 will address this somewhat. Frankly we desperately need some planetary location for every merc unit created by players. Give us something to identify with, a 'home', as it were.

As for monetization for the game. If you do not select a subscription or pre-pay form, then the f2p system is, as yet, the only way to insure that the game (and company) stay in business and add content. By all means it will certainly diminish immersion to some extent but purchasing in game currency (alongside in game earnings) is one way to continue our game. I believe that allowing units (even small lance sized 'friends' units) could be given a home. This could be a full planet for large groups or a small town or city or even a village. Then others may be allowed to 'attack that home area, altho scheduling such combats may be impractical. Buying (for real money) property (homes) in the universe may be another way to go.

PGI is now a small, independent company. They had already lost a lot of their original backers buying virtual goods. They need more money to complete the game (launch was simply a renamed beta) and certainly more money ongoing for maintenance of the existing game architecture and especially - new content (such as Solaris). I hope that CW will accomplish this, both from money POV and immersion but they really really need in game continuity. Connection between our mechs, or units and the game universe.

Ooops! TL;DR - sorry

[RalphVargr]

I think we've heard just about all the standard responses. There were some nice ideas about improving the game, but they should have been implemented at least a year ago.

I'm taking a nap, now. Have fun.

[Anjian]

In response to the opening post.

F2P is the biggest innovation in the game --- to merge the mecha genre into an F2P/MOBA format. This is the reason why MWO survived, while other franchises, like Armored Core and Hawken, did not. Hawken tried to adopt an F2P structure but failed to properly monetize it. MWO's F2P system however, remains flawed, as it is essentially charging founder's or kickstarter money for content packs, while other F2P games have gone beyond that. War Thunder for example, is about to unleash over 30 American tanks into the game, and except for the premium models, you don't have to pay a single cent for them, just grind your way through.

Having said that, MWO has a much smaller base than War Thunder or World of Tanks, and the lack of mega player volumes means it needs a higher cash requirement from each player in order to survive. Its remarkable that MWO still survives at this point.

F2P is exceedingly popular, and has enabled small independents to rise and challenge big names (big evils) of the game industry like EA, Blizzard, and Ubisoft. WoT has over a hundred and ten million registered, might make over $400 million for 2014, League of Legends has over 70 million probably makes over a billion bucks, DoTA 2 has over 50 million. In contrast, the total number of XBox 360s ever sold has not gone past 85 million. Clash of Clans, an MMO RTS with an F2P format, has over 100 million downloads in Google Play and that doesn't count the downloads on the Apple App Store.

So for MWO to even get a tiny fraction of these numbers, its still hitting a motherlode.

F2P has its bad smells but its going to be the format of the future. I believe MWO got itself a future because of it and its going to outlast all the previous MW games.

Now for the second issue, competitiveness is part of the F2P/MOBA/MMO scene. I don't know if MWO will go the esports route like WoT or LoL, but players of these games are naturally very competitive, downright hardcore and thrive in constant PvP.

Now to address another issue. F2P games are not perfect and people will leave them. But in my observation they are only leaving for another massive F2P PvP game (WoT to War Thunder for example or back again). Chances are if MWO bleeds players, most of these players will drift to another F2P/PvP/MMO game, while MWO will catch drifting players from such games as well.

[Tombstoner]

mike29tw, on 10 December 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

You just further proved that MWO is P2W...-,-

When Timberwolf was first released and behind a paywall: OP as hell.
When it was finally released to all players for C-bill: instantly nerfed.

You keep calling it paying for early access. Do you ever notice that the content free players received was nowhere near as good as when it was first released for paid players exclusively?

*Edited for grammatical error.

Total sarcasm on my part. I just forgot the quoits, the game clearly enters and leaves a P2W state that was never clearer then the clan release.

[Troutmonkey]

Horrible lag (Rubber Banding / Hit Reg)
Horrible lag (FPS)
Horrible UI
Many many small bugs that have been around far too long

Edited by Troutmonkey, 14 December 2014 - 06:24 AM.

[zer0imh]

fix the UI!!!!

[Escef]

Vassago Rain, on 10 December 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

MWO is one of the most P2W games ever made.

Sorry to ruin your fantasy, but it is. They routinely lock meta and new stuff behind a paywall. For instance, all the clan stuff was behind a paywall for 6 months. That was tons of fun, now wasn't it?

Strange, but I never saw my clan mechs as P2W. I have better records in many of my Spheroid mechs than I do in Clan machines.
MWO Clantech is NOT table top Battletech Clantech.

[aelfkins]

Mister Blastman, on 10 December 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

Bahahahaahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha ahahhahahahahaha. That's the MOST ASININE THING I have heard around here in the longest time!

[Karamarka]

1) No client side hit detection (fix hit reg plz)


2) awful frame rates for above spec PC


seem like core issues to me

[DaFurryFury]

Here is someone who talks on the F2P problems in depth. He discusses all the relevant issues at hand regarding it.


There are several other videos along these lines discussing F2P. You should check them out, but F2P is not all bad and in fact I'm a big supporter of the format.

As far as the team thing goes, I think most would disagree with you. Team play should be rewarded and so should innovation of new strategies and tactics in game. If it becomes too individual based in game then the game starts to look more like Halo and CoD where you make the most broken class you can come up with and just fight alone. This in Mechwarrior imo should be completely discouraged.

Edited by DaFurryFury, 14 December 2014 - 10:46 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

Gyrok, on 10 December 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

Aside from that, it is a great game though...

I LOL'D

[Kiryuin Ragyo]

Let's just put some facts on. In developers corner well known that Free2Play brings a hell of a lot more money than Pay2Play. So, OP thinks that he invented an bicycle but he wrong, terribly wrong. You bringing as exsample Eve but well known that Eve was depopulated several years ago and in a commons state is rusting project. Compare Eve to WoT, who brings more money to developers and number of players? Answer is obvious F2P WoT beats Eve in everything.

So, before making useless silly threads beter make some reaserch first.

~request lock.

[Mautty the Bobcat]

RalphVargr, on 10 December 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

2) Competitive Team Play. This is by far the worst problem.

Online games are notorious for poor social conduct (and I claim no exemption). But the group model of play brings out the worst in online gaming behavior. Team killing, petty tyrants, group drama, berating and blaming/shaming- team games bring out the worst in people. Not to mention the forums...

Again, I claim no special exemption. Guilty as charged.

When you have a team environment, a vicious Darwinian cycle begins, in which only the most skilled and equipped players can hope to survive and compete.

Community/Clan Warfare only shifts the most competitive players/teams into even more harsh cycles of deadly gameplay, while the main, casual community withers into a stale environment. I've seen this occur in World of Tanks/Warplanes, as an example.

Don't be "that guy" during the match then. Its the same for any team based game and toxicity only promotes toxicity. Don't be negative, encourage team mates, cheer them on, try to help coordinate with them. If you're pug dropping and most of the team decides to do something kind of stupid, don't be the guy or small group giving up because your 'pug group is bad'. Instead work with them, try to help cover things they may not be aware of.

Remember that just because you might play things a certain way, or are part of a competitive group that does it a certain way, doesn't mean that the rest of your team does or is. Work with them and you may even learn something new. I learned to pilot my locusts by sticking to pugs and assisting damage on cored components of mechs, taking out weaponry and annoying equipment (ecm) quicker and helping the team. More often was I praised for assisting or even securing a kill that no other mech was able to pursue than chastised for kill poaching.

Stay positive, communicate, coordinate.

[RalphVargr]

I showed my date MWO. Having two hardcore gamer children herself (and being a killer backgammon/bridge/boardgame player), she is not unfamiliar with the entire gaming scene.

I ran her through a solo drop. Her reaction was "How can people spend so much time playing this game?"

I had no ready answer to defend MWO.