16 replies to this topic

[Sarlic]

...When do we get some actual maps who represent correct use of scale?

So far all the maps has huge flaws regarding scale.

Just a few example of ridiculous offscale things:

Alpine peaks ---> All the huge and oversized hills really. Especially the middle one.
River City ---> Getting there but solo que behaviour is: always the centre at the statues.
Crimson strait ---> The Saddle and the highways.
Terra Therma ---> Ridiculous high mountains and paths and the angle you have to make to see and walk up to the centre. I get its a vulcano or whatever but the whole scale feels off.
The Mining Collective ---> Almost balanced, but huge buildings, huge blocking and other stuf...come on really?
Viridian BOG ---> I get it. Great atmosphere. But oversized plants, oversized mountains etc. And i get stuck everywere. Horrible design, great atmosphere.

We need either correct scale maps or scale reminders. This is just...whack. In no single map i feel i am piloting a giant mech. I feel tiny. And i am piloting a Atlas.


I really get the atmosphere of the maps. Which are good, but the scale is just beyond horrible.

Example: The Atlas and the Kingcrab getting more issues with their low slung gorilla arms on different maps, its getting worse. Enviromental hitboxes is pissing me off. I see the crosshair empty of obstacles, yet i hit some odd invisible wall or enviromental hitbox.

They can hit me, but i cant hit them back. Annoying.

That said: The solo que behaviour is really getting out of hand.
When do we get some maps or features (VOIP for example) to combat this kind of behaviour? I tired of assaulting on my own perhaps with another assault while the rest just sit and drink some coffee in the centre on River City (at the statues).

Another example: Viridian BOG. As i expected: The map is just out for a few months and PUG (and the solo que) behaviour is already forming. Alot of people are taking the higher grounds. Not that it matters, you can flank from several different locations; but my point is PUGgers always take a dead centre. PUGers dont change.

And in the end: Why has Alpine Peaks not been modified yet? Biggest issue that everyone take the hill or die trying. The hill is really dominating on that field. Flat out the middle and bring more getaways.

Thoughs?

Edited by Sarlic, 11 December 2014 - 01:15 AM.

[The Cheese]

Sky is blue, grass is green, devs are busy with CW.

[Sarlic]

The Cheese, on 11 December 2014 - 01:29 AM, said:

Sky is blue, grass is green, devs are busy with CW.

I get it. Ofcourse they are. It does not have to made directly. Just bringing it to attention.

Edited by Sarlic, 11 December 2014 - 01:36 AM.

[The Cheese]

And I hope they do pay attention. Most of the things you describe have been around for a very long time.

[Lynx7725]

You do realise that if we are fighting over gentler planets, the Great Houses would simply just truck in enough tanks to Alacorn you to death?

Battlemechs have superior advantages in rough terrain, and that's what the maps are supposed to represent -- rough ground that the incumbent powers can't deploy cheaper military units to garrison or assault. These are grounds where Battlemechs are best suited for.

And no, I do not want to meet a bunch of SRM36 Carriers in a city; nor a bunch of LRM60 Carriers in open plains.

[NextGame]

maybe they should do an earth map, so that we have scale context for other maps

[Lily from animove]

River city is small, even if the battle takes place at and around the citadell this means nearly 40% of the map is where the mechs spread out.

Crimson straight is not only saddle and highway, but often, because that are the choke points. there is still a lot battle happening in the city parts.

terra therma, yes has some annoying hills, but still is a good map, when the tema isn't a stubborn herd of cattles. bets matches sometimes are there whern people flank and ambush correctly, matches even can turn completely. And the caaldera is the worst place to actually stay, because heat penalty is huge. you better stay at hthe entrances and do some clever stuff. No team cna win by holding the cladera they only win when the others decide to to some stupid attack attemps. or trying to come from F6 which is the worst entrancy tactical wise.

[Sarlic]

Lynx7725, on 11 December 2014 - 01:53 AM, said:

You do realise that if we are fighting over gentler planets, the Great Houses would simply just truck in enough tanks to Alacorn you to death?

Battlemechs have superior advantages in rough terrain, and that's what the maps are supposed to represent -- rough ground that the incumbent powers can't deploy cheaper military units to garrison or assault. These are grounds where Battlemechs are best suited for.

And no, I do not want to meet a bunch of SRM36 Carriers in a city; nor a bunch of LRM60 Carriers in open plains.

Well bring atleast the scale in correct order. I think like Crimson strait, flat out or rework the saddle, or atleast nave more protection from building. B2 is really nicely done. Would love to see tank divisions or more getaways like Mining Collective.

To me feels 2/3rd maps is too rough. Some good but Terra Therma is just... Plain awful.

Edited by Sarlic, 11 December 2014 - 03:19 AM.

[Darlith]

Some of the scaling is off, but I would remind you that your huge mech is 16 meters or 52 feet high. That makes you smaller than many office buildings, a six story building is probably taller than you. A mature yellow poplar tree at 100-120 feet would tower twice your height and a douglas fir at 180-250 feet might even be five times your massive Atlas's height.

So it is possible that trees on an alien world and even bushes might make your mech look less than impressive, that buildings would tower over you, and that mountains and slopes would seem immense in relation.

[Sarlic]

Darlith, on 11 December 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

Some of the scaling is off, but I would remind you that your huge mech is 16 meters or 52 feet high. That makes you smaller than many office buildings, a six story building is probably taller than you. A mature yellow poplar tree at 100-120 feet would tower twice your height and a douglas fir at 180-250 feet might even be five times your massive Atlas's height.

So it is possible that trees on an alien world and even bushes might make your mech look less than impressive, that buildings would tower over you, and that mountains and slopes would seem immense in relation.

The buildings feels pretty fine. But look at Mining collective....thats...so unreal!

[Joseph Mallan]

Sarlic, on 11 December 2014 - 03:01 AM, said:

Well bring atleast the scale in correct order. I think like Crimson strait, flat out or rework the saddle, or atleast nave more protection from building. B2 is really nicely done. Would love to see tank divisions or more getaways like Mining Collective.

To me feels 2/3rd maps is too rough. Some good but Terra Therma is just... Plain awful.

You do know there are TT maps that have terrain 3-4 times taller than Mechs. Buildings where Mechs would be are scaled for a Mech to get into. If anything Most buildings are undersized. Other than that, Foreign planet, foreign scaling.

A Mech is roughly 2 stories tall.

[Darlith]

Sarlic, on 11 December 2014 - 04:16 AM, said:

The buildings feels pretty fine. But look at Mining collective....thats...so unreal!

Yeah some of it is, some of it isn't. I mean there is some impressively tall structures in refineries and factories after all. I suppose a lot of it comes down to a strange balance between making you seem suitably impressive in the field and also providing you enough cover so you don't get melted as soon at the match starts since everyone can see you.

[Sarlic]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 December 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

You do know there are TT maps that have terrain 3-4 times taller than Mechs. Buildings where Mechs would be are scaled for a Mech to get into. If anything Most buildings are undersized. Other than that, Foreign planet, foreign scaling.

A Mech is roughly 2 stories tall.

Then the whole terrein feels so rough. I dont like it.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Give most maps randomized spawn location for both teams (start the team together, though).

I think Alpine might be a lot of fun if you start out in the southeast, and the enemy could come from any direction, even nearby in the southwest end.

Joseph Mallan, on 11 December 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

You do know there are TT maps that have terrain 3-4 times taller than Mechs. Buildings where Mechs would be are scaled for a Mech to get into. If anything Most buildings are undersized. Other than that, Foreign planet, foreign scaling.

A Mech is roughly 2 stories tall.

Actually, I think the scale of the maps isn't correct. Mechs are not 3 stories high. They're more like only 2 stories, about the same height as fully grown trees. A car would be knee high to a mech, but in MWO you can see the cars are tiny, only about as big as your mech's foot.

[Tristan Winter]

I agree with lots of stuff in the OP. It's kind of interesting that so many people feel the scale is just fine. If you take a map scaled for a normal FPS and then insert a battlemech, it would be very different from what we have now. Many normal FPS games have a good sense of scale. Hills, rivers, buildings, industrial sites and mountains have the proper scale. Now, MWO can't maintain the same level of detail. That would be impossible. But if you just scale up the size of all the buildings and hills because the player is represented by a big robot, you lose the sense of being big.

It's like they've taken the Office Map from CounterStrike and just maintained the exact same dimensions for the rooms, the doors, the windows and the stairs, but just made different textures to match the big robots. But since you're basically walking around in a big office with a deathstar texture or whatever, you don't feel any bigger in MWO than you do in CounterStrike.

Fortunately, they seem to have a lot of plans for future maps, so at least some of these issues will be resolved. I'm still waiting for a map where we get to fight in a suburban area, stomping over normal sized houses, stores, trucks and parks. Take cover behind rolling hils, in shallow rivers or the occassional tall building. Use trees to obscure the enemy's line of sight, not to hide behind indestructible tree trunks.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hans Von Lohman, on 11 December 2014 - 04:27 AM, said:

Give most maps randomized spawn location for both teams (start the team together, though).

I think Alpine might be a lot of fun if you start out in the southeast, and the enemy could come from any direction, even nearby in the southwest end.



Actually, I think the scale of the maps isn't correct. Mechs are not 3 stories high. They're more like only 2 stories, about the same height as fully grown trees. A car would be knee high to a mech, but in MWO you can see the cars are tiny, only about as big as your mech's foot.

Mechs Mimic Human anatomy for the most part. So as a 6'2"(Almost 2 Meters) tall Human I am NOT Knee high to a Mech(15-20 Meters tall). Most cars are only up to my chest. Pick Ups and SUVs... A 15 Meter tall Mechs Knee would be roughly 5 Meters above the ground.

The Human body is roughly the same length from ankle to knee, knee to hip and hip to shoulders.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 December 2014 - 04:41 AM.

[Sarlic]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 December 2014 - 04:40 AM, said:

Mechs Mimic Human anatomy for the most part. So as a 6'2"(Almost 2 Meters) tall Human I am NOT Knee high to a Mech(15-20 Meters tall). Most cars are only up to my chest. Pick Ups and SUVs... A 15 Meter tall Mechs Knee would be roughly 5 Meters above the ground.

The Human body is roughly the same length from ankle to knee, knee to hip and hip to shoulders.

Well... In some maps everything is too oversized. Like a triple big mac.