57 replies to this topic

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Walluh, on 13 December 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

A Wolf calling a warden a 'traitor.'

I weep for the misguided Wolves under Vlad.

To put it simply, Nicholas saved the Clans from themselves, but undid everything his father tried to accomplish with the Exodus. I can't say he was misguided because he was trying to stave off a civil war far deadlier than anything the IS endured which was the last thing his father wanted. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Return to the Inner Sphere is impossible for us. Our heritage and our convictions are different from those we left behind. The greed of the five Great Houses and the Council Lords is a disease that can only be burned away by the passing of decades, even centuries. And though the fighting may seem to slow, or even cease, it will erupt again as long as there are powerful men to covet one another's wealth. We shall live apart, conserving all the good of the Star League and ridding ourselves of the bad, so that when we return — and return we shall — our shining moral character will be as much our shield as our BattleMechs and fighters.

The irony is, the Clans misinterpretted this and initiated what amounted to another Amaris coup, which made all of the invading Clans the bad guys by default. Keresnky never planned to return and subjugate and rule by tyranny. He believed in democracy and the fact that the only legitimacy rested on the House Lords electing a new First Star Lord. That was the whole point of the Succession Wars, and the reason for the Exodus. He never wanted the SLDF materials and personnel used to fight against the IS (as per all 5 House and the SLDF sourcebooks)

Warden and Crusader get tossed around a lot, but the only real Wardens by definition were Wolf's Dragoons, Wolf in Exile, and units like the Eridani Light Horse who upheld their SLDF traditions. While there might be shades of gray, that's exactly how it is in black and white and that's canon.

When push comes to shove, most of the RP stuff goes out the airlock pretty quick when it comes to competitive play in my experience. I haven't even seen a league allow the taking of bondsmen, batchals or initiating a Trial of Refusal after losing to another Clan. The QQ always prevails. So while the RP stuff is all well and good, it's almost always haphazard which makes it comical.

Additionally, the most fun I've had playing in MW leagues was from the crusader point of view. The IS will never accept the warden Clans in an online environment because it eventually devolves into "us vs them." That's already happening in CW, but that's no surprise because the Wardens are once again aiming for Terra, rather than defending the Inner Sphere. This is like the 5th time I've seen this cycle repeat itself.

[CyclonerM]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 13 December 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:

That's already happening in CW, but that's no surprise because the Wardens are once again aiming for Terra, rather than defending the Inner Sphere. This is like the 5th time I've seen this cycle repeat itself.

Clan Wolf was forced to take part in the invasion, that is the premise of CW based on lore. And i have not forgotten Ulric Kerensky's grand plan: either stopping the invasion or having Clan Wolf taking Terra to defend it from the Crusader Clans.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

CyclonerM, on 13 December 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

Clan Wolf was forced to take part in the invasion, that is the premise of CW based on lore. And i have not forgotten Ulric Kerensky's grand plan: either stopping the invasion or having Clan Wolf taking Terra to defend it from the Crusader Clans.

That's why I mentioned shades of grey. It's hard to say no when you face a Trial of Absorption for refusing, and Annihilation for open defiance.

[Gyrok]

True, though the brilliance of Ulric's strategy was in his fervor. By outdoing the crusader clans and forcing them to try to outbid the wolves. He could bid safely for a victory, and let the Crusaders undercut themselves until they were essentially throwing a tiny force at a mob of numbers.

Had they been victorious and taken Terra, I feel confident that Ulric would have envisioned organizing a new Star League, and attempting to cultivate and build that as the IlClan and IlKhan. It certainly would have been interesting had he pulled it off...

In spite of what the Crusaders think, Ulric was probably one of the best strategic minds in terms of seeing the entire scope of the campaign and organizing effectively to accommodate for upcoming challenges.

All things being equal, he was likely one of the biggest supporters of protecting the Inner Sphere among the Clans, and was certainly the most powerful with that mindset. Once the hand of the Wolves was forced, he knew they could outgain everyone and beat the clans at their own game to take Terra and prevent the subjugation of the Inner Sphere.

[CyclonerM]

And all this talking of Ulric makes me think that we need an IlKhan to coordinate defend and attack operations..

[Naglinator]

Lol, we NEED an ilKhan. Showers and Ulric lied and manipulated all the other clans. Why would we want more of that? Plus democracy? Ha. Just like monarchies, aristocracies and capitalist states. All corrupt I.S. institutions. Caste-based meritocracies are what we bring. The inner is like a child with a loaded weapon. We wolf crusaders are simply removing the danger to our children. Dont confuse us with the crazy CSJ crusaders.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

CyclonerM, on 14 December 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

And all this talking of Ulric makes me think that we need an IlKhan to coordinate defend and attack operations..

That was a hard sell in NBT but came about due to a united front from the IS versus the Clans. I don't see that happening really in MWO because the playerbase is way too divided between casuals and units. In a league, there are no casuals running solo which means the game has an entirely different dynamic out of the gate. That's not to say there aren't casual groups.... it's just most leagues have a minimum requirement for unit size so small units don't waste everyone's time.

My experience over the years has been that the best and most active unit becomes the ilClan. Given how MWO and CW work outside of a league and the constant bickering between solo players and units, I just don't see it happening really.

At any rate, *if* it does, it'll be one of the top competitive teams at the tip of the spear. Ultimately, the whole notion rests in their hands and I don't think they care one way or another about it, lore or anything else except smashing faces.

[Lily from animove]

Odanan, on 12 December 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

No, you aren't at disadvantage.

You still have the best heavy (Timber Wolf), medium (Stormcrow) and assault (Dire Wolf) mechs of the game. Your XL engines don't blow with the loss of one side torso and your weapons still weight less, do more damage and have better range. And besides having better mechs, you are fighting with the same drop weight and using the same dishonorable artillery/air strike.

So much for zellbrigen.

and you have 150kph lights, which are instant win, lol. so whats a TBR worth if 12 people rush the cannon and shot it with 12 ML's for 12 secs?

ShadowWolf Kell, on 13 December 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:

To put it simply, Nicholas saved the Clans from themselves, but undid everything his father tried to accomplish with the Exodus. I can't say he was misguided because he was trying to stave off a civil war far deadlier than anything the IS endured which was the last thing his father wanted. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Return to the Inner Sphere is impossible for us. Our heritage and our convictions are different from those we left behind. The greed of the five Great Houses and the Council Lords is a disease that can only be burned away by the passing of decades, even centuries. And though the fighting may seem to slow, or even cease, it will erupt again as long as there are powerful men to covet one another's wealth. We shall live apart, conserving all the good of the Star League and ridding ourselves of the bad, so that when we return — and return we shall — our shining moral character will be as much our shield as our BattleMechs and fighters.

The irony is, the Clans misinterpretted this and initiated what amounted to another Amaris coup, which made all of the invading Clans the bad guys by default. Keresnky never planned to return and subjugate and rule by tyranny. He believed in democracy and the fact that the only legitimacy rested on the House Lords electing a new First Star Lord. That was the whole point of the Succession Wars, and the reason for the Exodus. He never wanted the SLDF materials and personnel used to fight against the IS (as per all 5 House and the SLDF sourcebooks)

Warden and Crusader get tossed around a lot, but the only real Wardens by definition were Wolf's Dragoons, Wolf in Exile, and units like the Eridani Light Horse who upheld their SLDF traditions. While there might be shades of gray, that's exactly how it is in black and white and that's canon.

When push comes to shove, most of the RP stuff goes out the airlock pretty quick when it comes to competitive play in my experience. I haven't even seen a league allow the taking of bondsmen, batchals or initiating a Trial of Refusal after losing to another Clan. The QQ always prevails. So while the RP stuff is all well and good, it's almost always haphazard which makes it comical.

Additionally, the most fun I've had playing in MW leagues was from the crusader point of view. The IS will never accept the warden Clans in an online environment because it eventually devolves into "us vs them." That's already happening in CW, but that's no surprise because the Wardens are once again aiming for Terra, rather than defending the Inner Sphere. This is like the 5th time I've seen this cycle repeat itself.

listen listen, the hells horses that contracted with the GB's are speaking about traitors
xD

Edited by Lily from animove, 14 December 2014 - 01:37 PM.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Lily from animove, on 14 December 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

listen listen, the hells horses that contracted with the GB's are speaking about traitors
xD

[CyclonerM]

Naglinator, on 14 December 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

Lol, we NEED an ilKhan....

ShadowWolf Kell, on 14 December 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

My experience over the years has been that the best and most active unit becomes the ilClan. Given how MWO and CW work outside of a league and the constant bickering between solo players and units, I just don't see it happening really.

I think a strong personality could help uniting more the Clans and their effort, at least those within the same Clan, instead of this confusing mess going on. I admit it would be hard to impossible though. Clan Wolf counts so many units ranging from extremely small to very big, not counting pugs, but if no one starts doing something, using the Strana Mechty TS or the Grand Council website, or anything else, these will just be words.

[Daneiel]

Lily from animove, on 14 December 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

listen listen, the hells horses that contracted with the GB's are speaking about traitors
xD

ROFL - Shadowwolf a Hell Horse - that is the biggest joke that i ever listen !
See his signature , ask who is he , what is his codex before you post such nonsenses.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

CyclonerM, on 14 December 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

I think a strong personality could help uniting more the Clans and their effort, at least those within the same Clan, instead of this confusing mess going on. I admit it would be hard to impossible though. Clan Wolf counts so many units ranging from extremely small to very big, not counting pugs, but if no one starts doing something, using the Strana Mechty TS or the Grand Council website, or anything else, these will just be words.

It's a strong possibility, but likely won't begin to really take shape until they get the CW Chat incorporated into the game. Then people will have a much better idea of presence and who's leading the charge, coordinating and so on. A lot of people are completely in the dark at the moment and it's breeding a lot of chaos for all teams involved.

Daneiel, on 14 December 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

ROFL - Shadowwolf a Hell Horse - that is the biggest joke that i ever listen !
See his signature , ask who is he , what is his codex before you post such nonsenses.

A picture is worth a thousand words. I couldn't resist.

[CHH Badkarma]

I think it is best that we as a group ignore any comments a certain person makes here. It is more disruptive and insulting than anything else.
Best to stick to matter at hand than pay any attention to one persons apparent grudge and mud slinging

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 14 December 2014 - 07:53 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

CyclonerM, on 14 December 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

I think a strong personality could help uniting more the Clans and their effort, at least those within the same Clan, instead of this confusing mess going on. I admit it would be hard to impossible though. Clan Wolf counts so many units ranging from extremely small to very big, not counting pugs, but if no one starts doing something, using the Strana Mechty TS or the Grand Council website, or anything else, these will just be words.

Strana Mechty has rooms set up for each Clan faction to use as synch drop/coordinating rooms and they've worked quite for us in CSJ thus far.

Unfortunately, outside of us, CHHx, ZDA, Restless Adders (who are aligned CGB) and a bunch of friendly lone wolves who like to come by, there are few if any Clan units trying to use the Clan TS. Most prefer to stay on their personal servers and entreat people to join them there. We find that the neutral ground provided by Strana works well, and would help with mixing groups during CW windows, but we are done trying to sell it as a Hub TS.

Folks will use it or they will not. It is fine either way.


*,..,* Fangs Out! *,..,*

[Gyrok]

In an update...CWDG is now over 30+ wins in CW with a mere 7 matches lost. Wolf is gaining ground.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Dark DeLaurel, on 12 December 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

Odanan,

Three Mechs do not make a complete drop when we ha e to follow 3x4 rules. The IS still have the best lights and deal better FLD.

Zell, was out the window a very long time ago. I would love to do it, but people would complain a lot...

Zell? People wouldnt complain, people would blow your face off while you try to Zell with one guy....

[ShadowWolf Kell]

LordKnightFandragon, on 15 December 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Zell? People wouldnt complain, people would blow your face off while you try to Zell with one guy....

That was our experience in ADL and NBT. The top Clan units trained in IS mecs in 2v1 odds anyway so the IS pilots knew they had no chance in a 1v1. The only difference between IS and Clan mechs boating MPLs was heat. IS mechs tended to have the better hit boxes as well, but that was moot given we just legged them.

Zell was something we saved for practice and Trials.


In MWO, like most leagues, no one is playing "fair" to win. It's kill or be killed.

Edited by ShadowWolf Kell, 15 December 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 15 December 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

That was our experience in ADL and NBT. The top Clan units trained in IS mecs in 2v1 odds anyway so the IS pilots knew they had no chance in a 1v1. The only difference between IS and Clan mechs boating MPLs was heat. IS mechs tended to have the better hit boxes as well, but that was moot given we just legged them.

Zell was something we saved for practice and Trials.


In MWO, like most leagues, no one is playing "fair" to win. It's kill or be killed.

Spoken as an ever pragmatic Adder, seyla.