110 replies to this topic

[ShadowSpirit]

Attacking is difficult but not impossible. That's how it should be.

I've observed that too many people are still stuck in the old mindset of peek-a-boo back and forth at the gates. Not gonna work. You gotta push and stay aggressive.

Two threads here about how the "zerg is too hard to defend" and others saying "attacking is too hard."

What is it gonna be people? I think this is a fantastic start so far. I like that it's not automatic and you have to bring different weapons, tactics, and mechs to the game to counter various situations.

[Koniks]

Bottom line is that most teams aren't going to win by killing all 48 defenders, then the turrets, then the generator in 30 minutes.

You have to play the objective if you want to win as an attacker.

One thing they should consider doing is increasing the CBill/XP rewards for turret and generator kills, as well as victory.

Defense is a lot more profitable right now.

Edited by Mizeur, 15 December 2014 - 01:14 AM.

[totgeboren]

Yesterday me and a friend dropped with 8 people from CI (I think they were called, nice group of people), and two other randoms. Two times we attacked the Ghost Bears using a two-wave approach.
First wave was big slower mechs mostly, and the focus was on killing turrets along one side of the map (and legging enemy mechs if possible).
After everyone had died, we grouped up, not by the gates but a bit further back to prevent us from taking damage. Drop two was with faster mechs, mostly a mix of lights and mediums.
So again we did a coordinated push, just trying to leg enemies while running past them to the gun, and as it turns out we managed to win both times when attacking clanners with little difficulty using this approach, while also getting our qualifying matches for the challenge.

I think the most important thing to do as attacker is to coordinate your deaths. That is, when you die the first time, don't drop in a light and run back into the fight and then die again.

If you are still on your first mech when the rest have pushed and died two times, you will be on your own in the end with your final two drops being done when everyone else is dead. That means, in effect your l33t skills of staying at the back taking pots shots has resulted in the enemy needing to kill two less mechs, so you could just as well have ejected two times at the start instead.

As defender it's fine to not coordinate your deaths, but as attacker you will be in part to blame for the loss if you don't die at the same rate as the rest of your team.

However, what sucks is that all games where I have won as attacker have given very low c-bills, because you get c-bills from grinding yourself against the enemy team, something which means you will automatically lose. You have to do the winning push on the third try the latest (preferably you will do it on the second try, or first if you don't care about the challenge), since the fourth drop is only there to prevent the enemy from zerging your drop zone when you are on your third mech. When the enemy knows you are all on your last mech they won't care about losses, so you can never coordinate for a fourth push.

As defender you get good money if you win, so it's more straight forward. Attacker have to pick, money or loyalty points, which sucks.

Edited by totgeboren, 15 December 2014 - 03:15 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Thought this at first. Play another 20 matches and you'll see that without them Defenders could never hold a base.

[FatYak]

ShadowSpirit, on 15 December 2014 - 01:09 AM, said:

Two threads here about how the "zerg is too hard to defend" and others saying "attacking is too hard."

You realise those threads are about 2 completely different play styles dont you??

[FatYak]

ShadowSpirit, on 15 December 2014 - 01:09 AM, said:

Attacking is difficult but not impossible. That's how it should be.

Really??? Pitting your forces at defences outnumbered, outgunned without ability to recon and without fire support/ air cover with a high risk of failure and loss of all forces is how it should be?

This is why zerg rush and using mechs as disposable items is the way its done at the moment.

I can see it now, commander telling his troops

"hey you 36 guys, rush in there and die so we can send the next 12 in to finish the job, then you can majically respawn when the fight is over and we wont have to pay a cent to get all the equipment and personnel back that we lost"

Makes no sense at all in a campaign mode that is going to have an economy attached to it

[ImperialKnight]

Stop thinking of Invasion mode as Skirmish and you will see how it is possible to win as Attackers

[MischiefSC]

Attackers make the mistake of shooting enemy mechs. This is how you recognize someone who doesn't understand CW.

There are 2 things that you need to shoot when attacking -

1. Turrets. They don't respawn.

2. Omega.

Every enemy mech you kill just respawns a fresh mech with a dropship shooting you and your team the whole time, right on the target you are marching (at great cost) towards.

As the attacker:

You are going to die. Repeatedly. Quit fighting that and accept it. Appreciate that your job is to sell your life at a particular cost; maybe that's disrupting the enemy formation. Maybe it's serving as a distraction. Maybe it's destroying a turret. Maybe it's doing damage to Omega. You die for your objective. The only important thing is that you need to make sure you get your objectives purchased at the cost of your life by the 4th one.

Have a coordinated plan. Attacking is a shell game; the defender has all the advantages, a better position and turrets and quick support. You can not/will not overwhelm them in most cases (clan rushes being the exception) by brute force. You stick to the plan no matter what and you make sure your team knows what their job is not just now but over the next 3 waves after it. People are way more willing to march to certain death if they know why and what happens after - otherwise dying seems like the end and they'll avoid it.

Your primary 2 resources are not ammo or damage but armor and mechs. You spend armor to buy distance to objectives, you expend mechs in accomplishing objectives. A suicide distraction by 10 mechs so 2 can finish killing Omega isn't just an option it's an excellent one. Conversely standing at range exchanging peek-a-boo fire with the enemy is the worst possible choice - every hit you take at range is one less hit you can take when your drive is started. Stay out of sight, save your armor, burn ammo constantly, burn arty early and often, pop UAV to show those behind you where enemy cluster are, burn coolshot before you overheat when you're shooting the objective, override shutdown when further survival is impossible and 2 more shots on target can be traded for it.

Summing up:

The goal of attacking is NOT fighting enemy mechs. It's getting around them to destroy turrets when possible but you destroy turret to better facilitate getting to Omega. Every mech you destroy is another obstacle put closer to your target and in fresh health. A crippled enemy mech left alive is one less danger your teammates will face at Omega. Have a plan, make it clear to your team beginning to end, run it for the objective and not the journey getting there.

Stay on target Skywalker. You're not there to shoot TIE fighters; you're there to blow up the Death Star. Leave Vader; Han will pick him off for you if he can.