27 replies to this topic

[Morrey]

Can someone clear this up for me?
According to the Q&A and Dev Blogs the Prime Variant starts your "training" which is a combinations of Pilot XP and Mech XP for a simpler definition.
I understand that to get better as a pilot and/or unlock modules you have to train in the variants.

Now the question is, does the Prime Variant get modified into other known Variants or do you have to buy another variant chassis?

With only only 4,5 or 8 mech bays, does that mean we sell chassis back to the used Mech Dealer?
And what for a loss?

I think having a Black Market would be fun, but I think the salvaging rules are pretty much what we are going to end up with if it goes that way.

[Dozer]

There is no selling a mech at all be it to a vendor or other player afaik. You simply have to pay for more Mech bays if you need them.

As for variants your prime can be modified and/or you can buy the same prime chassis and modify for each variant. What works out to be the most expensive in the long run, who knows? My gut however tells me having a Mech Bay full of variants probably is.

[Der Zivilist]

Do you have any sources for those claims, Dozer? There is absolutely no reason I see for not allowing players to sell back stuff to the store at half price (or some variation thereof).

Also, as far as I know, you buy each variant as a fully separate mech, so you can actually use them properly in dropship battles (battles where each player uses 4 mechs).

Edited by Der Zivilist, 26 June 2012 - 11:45 PM.

[Noth]

Dozer, on 26 June 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

There is no selling a mech at all be it to a vendor or other player afaik. You simply have to pay for more Mech bays if you need them.

As for variants your prime can be modified and/or you can buy the same prime chassis and modify for each variant. What works out to be the most expensive in the long run, who knows? My gut however tells me having a Mech Bay full of variants probably is.

Videos and screen shots show that you cannot modify the Prime into the other variants. Impossible to make a K2 Catapult from a C1 due to lack of the proper hardpoints. All variants can be modified as well, it just each variant has different hardpoints and amount of them along with other things such as jump jets which cannot be added unless the variant comes with them stock.

Edited by Noth, 27 June 2012 - 12:00 AM.

[Morrey]

How does it work in the pen and paper game?

Have we ever seen a variant in the vids that looks "physically" different?

[Dozer]

Der Zivilist, on 26 June 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Do you have any sources for those claims, Dozer? There is absolutely no reason I see for not allowing players to sell back stuff to the store at half price (or some variation thereof).

Also, as far as I know, you buy each variant as a fully separate mech, so you can actually use them properly in dropship battles (battles where each player uses 4 mechs).

tbh not off the top of my head, and now I read myself about vendors it doesn't make much sense does it. I guess I made a giant leap from 'buy mech bays' to 'can't sell back to vendor' by linking the need for the company to make money from the cash shop between the two.

[Lumpi]

The CPLT-K2 can be seen somewhere. It replaces the missile-pods with a PPC instead of each arm.

[Kanatta Jing]

Morrey, on 26 June 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

How does it work in the pen and paper game?

Have we ever seen a variant in the vids that looks "physically" different?

Yeah the Catapult C1 clearly has boxy missle racks and the K2 variant clearly has gun-like laser mounts in the same place.

[zencynic]

Morrey, on 26 June 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

How does it work in the pen and paper game?

IIRC, in TT BT, Prime refers to the default loadout of a Clan Omnimech. On these forums, I have seen people (myself included) use it to refer to the default available loadout of a chassis. The 'Prime" here almost always refers to the 3025 tech version of the mech. No XL engine, No Endo-structure internals, No Ultra AC/5, etc.

Edit take a look at The Atlas AS7-D and AS7-K. Both have been in officially released MWO video footage.

From http://www.sarna.net...28BattleMech%29

The AS7-D is the model you get as a founder's mech."armed with a multitude of weapons for both long and short range combat. For long ranges, the 'Mech carried a Doombud LRM-20 that allowed it to fire both directly at an enemy target at long range and to give indirect fire support when needed. For close range combat, the 'Mech was armed with a Deathgiver Autocannon/20 and four Hellion-V Medium Lasers which could eviscerate any 'Mechs who dared to come into close combat range. Finally, to take advantage of weakened areas of an enemy's armor, the Atlas carried a Thunderstroke SRM-6 launcher"

"AS7-K - An 3050's Combine upgrade of the Atlas that used rediscovered Star League technology, the K model was built with an XL Engine that reduced the weight of the engine by half. The 'Mech was been rearmed for long range combat, the 'Mech carried a Imperator Dragon's Fire Gauss Rifle and an Shigunga LRM-20. These were backed up by a pair of Victory Nickel Alloy ER Large Lasers, which allowed the AS7-K to keep an enemy at range, though the use of single heat sinks caused swift heat buildup if both lasers are fired repeatedly. For close range defense, the K model carried two Victory Heartbeat Medium Pulse Lasers and a Yori Flyswatter Anti-Missile System. Finally, CASE had been added to the side torsos to protect against an ammunition explosion."

Edited by zencynic, 27 June 2012 - 12:18 AM.

[Kanatta Jing]

zencynic, on 27 June 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

IIRC, in TT BT, Prime refers to the default loadout of a Clan Omnimech. On these forums, I have seen people (myself included) use it to refer to the default available loadout of a chassis. The 'Prime" here almost always refers to the 3025 tech version of the mech. No XL engine, No Endo-structure internals, No Ultra AC/5, etc.

Except for the Cataphract, the Prime is the upgraded version and the low tech version is a prototype.

[zencynic]

Kanatta Jing, on 27 June 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

Except for the Cataphract, the Prime is the upgraded version and the low tech version is a prototype.

I said 'almost always'
Actually, I was thinking of the Raven when I said almost, but 11 out of 13 is still pretty 'almost always'

Edit - Actually, this brings up another way 'prime' is commonly used on these forums, In this sense, Prime = the model with extensive info given on the right hand side of the page on Sarna.net when looking up a mech.

Edited by zencynic, 27 June 2012 - 12:13 AM.

[Morrey]

So there really hasn't been an explanation or definition to Russ's reference to the prime variant.

If we assume the prime variant just means the first version then following variants really still use the same internal framework.
If this is the case then can we say that there are Mass produced conversion kits that can easily convert a prime into a later variant?

Does anyone remember that stupid looking Camaro/Ferrari kit that was used in Miami Vice? Not that I watched that show.

[Steel Prophet]

I think i've seen something in the videos so far about buying and selling weapons and components in the mechlab. It would be a small step from there to also sell mechs you don't use anymore and i would appreciate that.

[Vander StarStrife]

This hasn't been fully explained yet .... the only thing I have read for sure is that the "Founder Mech" is a prime variant and that it can not be sold .... all other mechs can be sold

Prime variant also refers to the base model that everyone starts with .... only difference in "Founders Mech" is the paint job and the c-bill boost, everything else is exactly the same.

[Morrey]

Steel Prophet, on 27 June 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

I think i've seen something in the videos so far about buying and selling weapons and components in the mechlab. It would be a small step from there to also sell mechs you don't use anymore and i would appreciate that.

I agree but I also think, its entirely possible to have mass produced conversion kits. In fact I would think it's easier to install a new pair of ears on a C1 turning it into a K1 than it would be to install an XL engine.
The bolt on mounts are all ready there, all you have to do is run some power cables from the fusion engine and your K1 is good to go.

Where as installation of an XL engine involves punching out panels to make room for the new larger engine within the framework of the existing chassis. Of course those panels are also probably mass produced and just bolt-ons.

Vander StarStrife, on 27 June 2012 - 12:44 AM, said:

This hasn't been fully explained yet .... the only thing I have read for sure is that the "Founder Mech" is a prime variant and that it can not be sold .... all other mechs can be sold

So you have seen an official quote saying mechs can be sold?

[Vander StarStrife]

Morrey, on 27 June 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

So you have seen an official quote saying mechs can be sold?

Ya, I'll look for the quote in the morning, lil late here ..... +1 to anyone that finds the quote before I wake up

[JokerACE]

I'd like to see an "upgrade" where you could pay X C-bills to modify a hardpoint from one style to another. (perhaps one size to another, I dunno if they have sizes of hardpoints either. Which could be an interesting development, making an HBK more valuable because it has a giganto ballistic hardpoint from the factory/etc.) Sort of your techs reworking the power feeds and EM shielding to accomodate the different weapons variant. (energy/ballistic/missle)

And on that note... Is there a hardpoint size? I.e. small/medium/large/mondo? Could get janky swapping from laser sizes to SRM sizes to LRM sizes. But also could be an interesting mechlab dynamic. Hardpoint X can only support ballistic weapons to X tonnage. Depending on the upgradeability of the chassis in question, the cost to expand/change the hardpoint could be lower or higher. I.e. the Orion was always thought of as being very easy to work on.

[Noth]

JokerACE, on 27 June 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

I'd like to see an "upgrade" where you could pay X C-bills to modify a hardpoint from one style to another. (perhaps one size to another, I dunno if they have sizes of hardpoints either. Which could be an interesting development, making an HBK more valuable because it has a giganto ballistic hardpoint from the factory/etc.) Sort of your techs reworking the power feeds and EM shielding to accomodate the different weapons variant. (energy/ballistic/missle)

And on that note... Is there a hardpoint size? I.e. small/medium/large/mondo? Could get janky swapping from laser sizes to SRM sizes to LRM sizes. But also could be an interesting mechlab dynamic. Hardpoint X can only support ballistic weapons to X tonnage. Depending on the upgradeability of the chassis in question, the cost to expand/change the hardpoint could be lower or higher. I.e. the Orion was always thought of as being very easy to work on.

Being able to modify the hardpoints defeats the purpose of having variant available. And the only hardpoints are Ballistic, Energy, and Missile. They do not take size into account and each weapon only takes up 1 hardpoint.

[Flesh Engine]

Imo, they'd get more Elite's to upgrade to Legendary if they'd actually shed some light on the whole variant thing.
Currently it's just guesswork on our part since we don't actually know for sure.

[Noth]

Flesh Engine, on 27 June 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

Imo, they'd get more Elite's to upgrade to Legendary if they'd actually shed some light on the whole variant thing.
Currently it's just guesswork on our part since we don't actually know for sure.

How is it guess work? No variant will be able to mount all type of hardpoints. We know that the Prime variants of the Founder's Mechs are the the same ones listed on sarna in teh side bar on the mech page. We know that different variants are different mechs. You just got to pay attention to the videos and screen shots.