57 replies to this topic

[Woodstock]

Did no one read my post ..that had a DEV quote in it?????????

Visual changes ARE coming ... variants already look different ... other customisation based on the number of each type of hardpoint is being implemented but might slip into open beta ... so September ish

[Ramrod]

It would make a difference. With an AC/2 in an AC/20-sized hole, the muzzle is no longer flush with the cowling. The Mech is not designed for the hole in its shoulder to be a direct path into the rest of its torso.

How could it be against canon for that hole to simply be made smaller to fit a smaller-bore weapon? The TROs don't mention the accepted radius of a 4G's right torso weapon port anywhere.

Also, again same Mech example (Hunchie 4G), how would you rationalise a medium laser and a PPC looking externally identical?

Woodstock, on 27 June 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

Did no one read my post ..that had a DEV quote in it?????????

Visual changes ARE coming ... variants already look different ... other customisation based on the number of each type of hardpoint is being implemented but might slip into open beta ... so September ish

The argument here is not if, but rather why. Or in the case of Clan Warrior, why not.

Edited by Ramrod, 27 June 2012 - 12:29 AM.

[Woodstock]

Ramrod, on 27 June 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

The argument here is not if, but rather why. Or in the case of Clan Warrior, why not.

But why have the conversation at all ...because WHY/IF is clearly trumped by WILL.

[Clan Warrior]

Ramrod, on 27 June 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

It would make a difference. with an AC/2 in an AC/20-sized hole, the muzzle is no longer flush with the cowling. The Mech is not designed for the hole in its shoulder to be a direct path into the rest of its torso.

How could it be against canon for that hole to simply be made smaller to fit a smaller-bore weapon? The TROs don't mention the accepted radius of a 4G's right torso weapon port anywhere.

Also, again same Mech example (Hunchie 4G), how would you rationalise a medium laser and a PPC looking externally identical?



The argument here is not if, but rather why. Or in the case of Clan Warrior, why not.

AC20 or AC5 is a compact weapon all it needs is hole to shoot from bigger smaller doesn't matter. You're not changing the weapon itself you just installing it in larger hole. You're not modifying the seize of the weapon. You can shoot machinegun from 10 inch hole as well as 100 inch hole makes no difference.

In BT canon you have to be very specific where you install PPC's and other large weapons. Restrictions come with it. But since this is a game they must balance it. General rule is you can't put PPCs on any mech. You can mostly install it on many assault mechs as they have space and place to fit it in.

PS. If they can do it so that mechs still look mostly like original mechs and not like some Swiss cheese with lots of holes in it with sharp objects sticking out of them then that's fine. But I have to see it first.

Edited by Clan Warrior, 27 June 2012 - 12:54 AM.

[Ramrod]

Woodstock, on 27 June 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

But why have the conversation at all ...because WHY/IF is clearly trumped by WILL.

Academics, I guess. Without being able to play the game, there's not much else to do than talk about it, and anything is better than "post your favourite Mech" thread #941. As for one trumping the other, what's your point? The "if" has been handled. The "why/why not" is something anyone will be able to debate for as long as they feel like doing so, even long after the game is released, until the devs tell us "why/why not."

Clan Warrior, on 27 June 2012 - 12:35 AM, said:

AC20 or AC5 is a compact weapon all it needs is hole to shoot from bigger smaller doesn't matter. You're not changing the weapon itself you just installing it in larger hole. You're not modifying the seize of the weapon. You can shoot machinegun from 10 inch hole as well as 100 inch hole makes no difference.

In BT canon you have to be very specific where you install PPC's and other large weapons. Restrictions come with it. But since this is a game they must balance it. General rule is you can't put PPCs on any mech. You can mostly install it on many assault mechs as they have space and place to fit it in.

Again, you miss my point. I'm not saying the gun would shoot better/worse. I'm saying it is a design flaw because rather than the 100-inch hole leading into the workings of a 100-inch gun, it now only leads into a 10-inch gun, leaving the other 90-inches open right into your actuators, heatsinks, ammo, etc. There is nothing written in the canon that could be used to interpret that IS techies could not put in a barrel adapter. This would visually change the size of the weapon port.

As for the PPCs, we know from the videos and Q&As that those restrictions are not in the game, and that if you have the hardpoints/criticals/heat allowance, you can put a PPC in place of another energy weapon. The Hunchie 4G can do this in its arms. Answer my question.

Edited by Ramrod, 27 June 2012 - 01:05 AM.

[Clan Warrior]

Ramrod, on 27 June 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

Again, you miss my point. I'm not saying the gun would shoot better/worse. I'm saying it is a design flaw because rather than the 100-inch hole leading into the workings of a 100-inch gun, it now only leads into a 10-inch gun, leaving the other 90-inches open right into your actuators, heatsinks, ammo, etc. There is nothing written in the canon that could be used to interpret that IS techies could not put in a barrel adapter. This would visually change the size of the weapon port.

As for the PPCs, we know from the videos and Q&As that those restrictions are not in the game, and that if you have the hardpoints/criticals/heat allowance, you can put a PPC in place of another energy weapon. The Hunchie 4G can do this in its arms. Answer my question.

If you put smaller caliber into large size outlet it will be automatically adjusted. You will still see large dark hole but I'm sure the techs would have adjust it to fit the size of the gun. Problem is sticking large cannon into small hole and not the other way around. That is the least thing that I'm worrying about.

The problem is to modify physical appearance so that eventually the mech itself may not look like original one. This is what I'm concerned with. I have never seen something like that in BT, why I'm use to it. If I wasn't use to BT the way it is I would care less.


You can't put PPC anywhere, hardpoints/crits etc. is your restrictions all mechs will be restricted to what they can and can't have. This type of rule is similar to what can be seen in BT.

PS. Anyhow, I just want to see an Atlas and all other iconic BT mechs as it was and is portrayed in BT Universe. And not looking like Transformers out of other Sci-fi IP.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Clan Warrior, on 27 June 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

No, I get what you saying I was just answering your question . In BT Universe if it fits you can put it in assuming it is compatible with your mech and the type of weapon. Therefore you don't need to make mechs look physically different after loading different weapon of similar type. All mechs have restrictions anyway.

So if you put smaller AC2 in that bigger size hole it won't make any difference. That hole is there for other larger weapons. It fits inside and it shoots.

Lol what BT universe are you talking about? In BT the only mechs that could be changed in regards to loadouts were Omnimechs, all other designs looked the same because they were stock models coming off production lines. Look at the back of TRO Project Phoenix (yah I know some people dislike the unseen) for each of the different models manufactured in different places they have a picture showing visually the differences in the machines with different weapon loadouts. And the Mad Dog with gauss rifles is not a variant, it is the same exact chassis just with different weapons mounted that changes its appearance. Since it doesn't mount LRM's or SRM's it looked different to Inner Sphere warriors who were not used to mechs that could swap weapons out on the fly. Or does each arm of the Mad Dog C still have the double barrels of the prime configuration even though each only mounts a single gauss?

[Voras]

The Catapult with dual PPC is already in the game and can be seen in the screenshot section of this page as a mech lab shot. Cosmetic changes due to weapon loadout are in!

[Boohiss]

Clan Warrior, on 26 June 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

It's not because of game designing problems, it's how it is in BT. When you install different compatible weapon in place of another, that weapon is never going to change mechs physical look no matter what.

You can read "Battletech Readouts" and you'll never see something like weapons altering physical appearance in mech variants.

Only way you could get that is if and when JJ Abrams would get into BT and alter timeline. As a result you would see unicorns and other mythical creatures.

How switching PPC on Catapult from arms to torso makes it compatible? People after that will be shooting at hands, destroying them, and then still got shot at with a weapon they thought they destroyed?

[Ramrod]

Clan Warrior, on 27 June 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

You can't put PPC anywhere, hardpoints/crits etc. is your restrictions all mechs will be restricted to what they can and can't have. This type of rule is similar to what can be seen in BT

In the both the Mechlab video and Q&A, we are told that it is possible to have a Hunchback 4G with a PPC in its arm. This is different to the rule you cite as being much more restrictive in tabletop BattleTech, which means repeatedly citing that rule is pointless. Please feel free to stop citing that rule in your answers to me, it does not address the questions I am asking you.

In the hopes of finally getting a straight answer, I'm going to be as direct as possible: in MechWarrior Online, do you want a Hunchback's arm to look the same when it has a medium laser in it as how it looks when it has a PPC in it, yes or no?

Edited by Ramrod, 27 June 2012 - 02:13 AM.

[Clan Warrior]

Tincan Nightmare, on 27 June 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

Lol what BT universe are you talking about? In BT the only mechs that could be changed in regards to loadouts were Omnimechs, all other designs looked the same because they were stock models coming off production lines. Look at the back of TRO Project Phoenix (yah I know some people dislike the unseen) for each of the different models manufactured in different places they have a picture showing visually the differences in the machines with different weapon loadouts. And the Mad Dog with gauss rifles is not a variant, it is the same exact chassis just with different weapons mounted that changes its appearance. Since it doesn't mount LRM's or SRM's it looked different to Inner Sphere warriors who were not used to mechs that could swap weapons out on the fly. Or does each arm of the Mad Dog C still have the double barrels of the prime configuration even though each only mounts a single gauss?

In the IS they are called variants, variants have more limitations than say omnimechs but you can customize IS mechs and then call it variantA. You can replace 4 medium lasers and install 2 large or change AC2 to 2 machineguns, LRM to SRM etc. That is part of BT Universe and you can see that in many technical readouts. In BT variants were modified Prime mechs to allowed customization. It was more expensive and less efficient then say having omniech but still it did the job for IS mech pilots.

There is also AS7-D-H AtlasII from 3075 technical readout that resembles an old Atlas with some physical appearance changed. But still you can tell that it is an Atlas.

[Clan Warrior]

Ramrod, on 27 June 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

In the hopes of finally getting a straight answer, I'm going to be as direct as possible: in MechWarrior Online, do you want a Hunchback's arm to look the same when it has a medium laser in it as how it looks when it has a PPC in it, yes or no?

I thought I said that 3 times already in my pervious posts here.

If it is made so that PPC is not gigantic tube like weapon that takes away original look of the Hunchback and makes it look like new type of mech then no.

If looks like proportional or similar to previous weapons then yes it can still look different but not ridiculously different.. As long as that mech resembles original Hunchback as much as possible then yes.

[Grimhowl]

Clan Warrior, on 27 June 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

I thought I said that 3 times already in my pervious posts here.

If it is made so that PPC is not gigantic tube like weapon that takes away original look of the Hunchback and makes it look like new type of mech then no.

If looks like proportional or similar to previous weapons then yes it can still look different but not ridiculously different.. As long as that mech resembles original Hunchback as much as possible then yes.

So you're taking the "you can have any color you want, as long as it's black." route? That's not customization. Just figured I'd clear that up for you.

[Clan Warrior]

Voras, on 27 June 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

The Catapult with dual PPC is already in the game and can be seen in the screenshot section of this page as a mech lab shot. Cosmetic changes due to weapon loadout are in!

I just seen that it looks like a new type of mech. I didn't think I was going to like it but it looks cool.

But this is K2 it was designed that way the variant that is.

Edited by Clan Warrior, 27 June 2012 - 02:50 AM.

[Ramrod]

Clan Warrior, on 27 June 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

I just seen that it looks like a new type of mech. I didn't think I was going to like it but it looks cool.

What?

[I C U B4 U C ME]

Ramrod, on 26 June 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

So a Gauss rifle in the shoulder of a Hunchback customised from a stock 4G chassis would have the exact same bore as an AC/2? Or replacing the medium lasers with PPCs would in fact not change the look or size of the arm weapons? Got it.

From what i have read, currently this will be the case but in the future (i don't know, in years possibly?) they will make it so that if you mount a gauss rifle where the AC20 was it will look different.

[Clan Warrior]

Ramrod, on 27 June 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

What?

Corrected myself I know I thought it was stock version lol

[Clan Warrior]

Grimhowl, on 27 June 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

So you're taking the "you can have any color you want, as long as it's black." route? That's not customization. Just figured I'd clear that up for you.

No, not at all! But if that happens you damn be right to call it new type of mech and not just new variant this is how it works in BT. You change physical appearance of say Atlas you better call it Boom Stick or something like that not Atlas as it won't be Atlas anymore.

In addition you have copyrights for each mechs appearance. I doubt it, that IP owners would want to make their iconic mechs look like Transformers or anything else other than what they are in BT. This is also how you commercialize BT and sell toy mech models.

Edited by Clan Warrior, 27 June 2012 - 03:16 AM.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

I got kind of confused, didn't we see the default Catapult with the LRMs and another Catapult with PPCs on its "arms"?


http://pcmedia.games...5993509-000.jpg
http://pcmedia.games...5993582-000.jpg
http://pcmedia.games...5993564-000.jpg

Or do these changes appear only if you have said variant and not a completely custom mech?

Edited by Ghost Rider LSOV, 27 June 2012 - 03:28 AM.

[Voyager I]

Clan Warrior is either impossibly dense or a decently played troll. I don't think there's much to be gained from continuing the argument.

Personally, I would be very happy if they could have visuals change in accordance with the weapons. A PPC is not a medium laser and would not look the same mounted in the arms of a mech. If it takes up the entire arm of an Awesome, why would a Hunchback be able to fit the same thing in something the size of a pea-shooter?

Verisimilitude aside, I would like to be able to get realistic information about my opponents by looking at them.