38 replies to this topic

[Tristan Winter]

Partly for the same reason that no PUG ever wants to start a push on any map, unless someone a couple of assault mechs lead the charge and die first. And sometimes, not even then.

But also because this weekend challenge rewards damage and kills, not wins. You get 0 points for taking your team to victory in every match you play, unless you got a match score of 80 in the process. No points if you cleared the turrets for your team, opened the gates or took out the orbital cannon.

There's a 9 million reward for people who farm kills, basically. Who would want to risk death for victory under those conditions? Not PUGs.

[Lukoi Banacek]

gregsolidus, on 13 December 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

I was lucky enough to get a whole THREE matches of CW in today and was met with the same anticlimatic scene, my team split between premades and PUGs open the gate(s) and then the PUGs stop to silently play peekaboo for thirty mintues leaving the premades too undermanned to preform a push and summarily resigned to play peekaboo as well. I guess don't get it and need someone to explain it to me.

One...they suffer emotional scarring from Terra Therma's bugzapper.

Two...they see you on their team and realize what level of backup they can expect.

Three...bazinga..just kidding on #2.

[Moonlander]

I just posted this in another thread, not long ago. I want to give my experience which is similar to yours without retyping all of it... so incoming copypasta...

Quote

I've been the most hateful, foulmouthed jerk all night because of the absolute appalling lack of communication or even the attempt to communicate. Then they want to bark about how "clans are op" or "omg lrms" or get this "we lost cause they are 12m", which is the ONLY time they said anything the entire match, which was at the end. Before you click know that it's full of terrible language and manbaby anger. I should probably take a break at this point.

Spoiler

Match1: 3 people DC and everyone else gives up because we're facing Lords. So I just AFK on the mountain and joke with them for the entire match and let them kill me at the end while they're camping the drop ship. No one would even try aside from maybe 3-4 people. Not worth trying at that point.

Match2: Get a group, give legit strat because no one else wants to. It's worked with several other winning match. What happens? People disregard the entire concept of opening 1 gate and just having 1-2 lights on another as a distraction. Tell them to hold back, instead they start attacking early alerting the enemy to both gates, the one that was supposed to open never does, the other gate opens and of course, the entire enemy team is waiting for us because of the premature attacking of the gate. No one listens. Assaults hiding with LRMs 4 miles back, no one will push. Instead, they're just peeking around a corner. 80% of the team never even made it through the gate at all up until the point that the enemy pushes us all the way back to our dropship. Lost 8 mechs in 3minutes.

Match3: We ask the 4m coordinated drop to lead. No response. 3 of us are actually communicating. We give a strat and again, it's completely ignored. No one will enter the gate and half the team is at another gate not even able to open it and dying to turrets. 12 mechs are dead, 0 on the enemy team. I say "ggwp red team" 1 of the other 2 communicating in chat get mad and tell me I can't give strats if I'm not willing to lead - WHAT? What are you even talking about? Absolutely zero response from any of the other 9 people on the team. They push us back to the drop ship. 14-48 loss. Didnt make in 20yds pass the gate at any point. Got cored from behind on 2 of my mechs and on the second 1, I was extremely rude to the person standing behind me. It had to be him, amarrite.

I think I have every right to get irritated as **** with you if 90% of the team just refuses to say anything in chat at ANY point and ignores any and all recommendations you have to give them. Everyone is boating ******* LRMs too and doing no damage because they're shooting them from the drop ship instead of being anywhere near the rest of us. There was a KGC with 1 AC5, 1AC20, 1 MPL, 1 LRM15 and i assume LRM ammo took up every other ton available. Really dude? I ask him wtf is up with his build and he says "CW builds are different than normal queue"

Yeah, tell me to get made cause I am. I'm irritated as **** and I can tell you on one hand how many times I've lost my cool with this game and 3 of those have been in the last hour or so. If you're not even going to ******* try to play, stop ******* queuing and go eat your boogers in a corner because it's ridiculous. If I was a jerk to you tonight, you deserved it. It's not even like I was a jerk from the get go, I'm a jerk 4-5min in when everyone except me and maybe 2 others has died twice over and the same 2-3 people outside of myself are the only ones bothering to communicate.

Go back to solo queue, go back to eating boogers with a nail gun, go back to CoD, go play in traffic... go anywhere except near the faction tab because you're too stupid for me to even begin to understand why you even play this game at all if you can't be bothered to play as a team. Just because you have 4 respawns doesn't mean this is ******* CoD all of a sudden.

UUuugh, TL;DR I'm mad. It's one thing to get stomped if everyone at least tried, it's another thing to get stomped because people absolutely refuse to work together and communicate.

Time to go smoke a cigarette.

[PurplePaladin]

If your using the Chat to communicate orders, it has a far less chance to work. What you say fades away to fast in the heat of battle; gets scrolled off; they are too busy to read it; or they may not even be able to read your language.

Use the command interface and you have a FAR better chance of organizing a pug.

[oldradagast]

The game has spent 2 years training people NOT to push, not to be the first one into the fire, and not get into a brawl when sniping might work better.

It should come as no surprise that people are continuing this tactic in CW.

A lack of built-in coms makes this problem much worse (and to the people on this forum screaming at the pugs to get their whole team on Teamspeak in the 1 minute before a match launches... yeah, good luck with that.)

The game NEEDS integrated voice com - with mute functions, of course - and people are going to need a good chunk of time to see how CW differs from conventional MWO games.

[Procale]

They don't push because they might get shot and scratch their paint.

Edited by Procale, 13 December 2014 - 07:59 PM.

[Weaselball]

I've been on two assaults so far where we pushed through gates and broke the generator. Both were on the Caustic map, both were Clan vs Clan, both were PUG vs PUG. It does happen.

[Brody319]

Weaselball, on 13 December 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

I've been on two assaults so far where we pushed through gates and broke the generator. Both were on the Caustic map, both were Clan vs Clan, both were PUG vs PUG. It does happen.

Stop attacking your Clan brothers and kill the IS scum

[cSand]

you know guys

not everyone plays this game like a 2nd job. Not everyone meets your high and mighty standards

there are more than a few people who posted in this thread could do with surgery to remove head from a$$


Particlarly laughable is when I see some pretty effing AVERAGE players talking like they're packing some kinda horse c**k in those mech pants

Edited by cSand, 13 December 2014 - 08:59 PM.

[Weaselball]

Brody319, on 13 December 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

Stop attacking your Clan brothers and kill the IS scum

Once we've dealt with the wolf infestation on Outpost, sure thing ;-D

[Moonlander]

cSand, on 13 December 2014 - 08:17 PM, said:

Particlarly laughable is when I see some pretty effing AVERAGE players talking like they're packing some kinda horse c**k in those mech pants

Personally, I know I'm not great... but just wanting people to follow a strategy and not ignore everything doesn't seem unreasonable. I'm sure I embarassed myself plenty in-game tonight which is why I just quit for the night because I was obviously getting far too annoyed especially when I've almost never got so irritated in MWO prior to this.

[Brody319]

Weaselball, on 13 December 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Once we've dealt with the wolf infestation on Outpost, sure thing ;-D

been trying to get the Clan off that post. They don't listen. Take you best unit and just keep hitting it over and over without rest. I would love to have a global clan chat so I could tell them to **** off. I've gotten at least a few units to realize their mistake. Inform them when you get into a match vs them. you can communicate there, tell them you can't attack IS unless you take that planet.

[Duncan1dah0]

One problem as a PUG, you don't know if that PUG next to you is going to run through the gate with you or just keep sniping. I'm really frustrated when I say push and charge in only to get mowed down because I was the only one who went. I even had someone question my tactic like I was insane when the 8 man joined with us was using the tactic and winning the game for us, while we "puggled" at the gate. The only good thing out of it was we kept a lance of theirs busy. (It was a PUG group on the other side.)

Edited by Duncan1dah0, 13 December 2014 - 08:51 PM.

[Screech]

Yeah if you are trying to pin your CW loses on your pugs might be time to take that long, deep look in the mirror.

[Kiiyor]

gregsolidus, on 13 December 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

I was lucky enough to get a whole THREE matches of CW in today and was met with the same anticlimatic scene, my team split between premades and PUGs open the gate(s) and then the PUGs stop to silently play peekaboo for thirty mintues leaving the premades too undermanned to preform a push and summarily resigned to play peekaboo as well. I guess don't get it and need someone to explain it to me.

Did you communicate your intentions?

I'm 99.99% PUGGER. Pugger's peek and shoot, because that is how they survive in the PUG queue. Any mobile attack in a PUG is usually proceeded by immediate and futile death. If you're used to playing in the group queue, this sort of behavior might be anathema to you, but in the brutal and unforgiving chaos that is the PUG queue, cautious play is the only reliably successful way to live past first contact.

If you type your intentions, or even the barest semblance of a plan, there is a huge chance that it will be followed. A PUGGER will take to a verbalized plan like dry earth to the first summer rains, like a duck to water, like a fat chick to cake. They are STARVING for plans. Plans are great. Plans are awesome. When i'm pugging, if anyone suggests anything, i'll follow it, even if it's just out of a sense of sheer, morbid curiosity. Even moronic plans have a chance of working if they are followed.

"OK guys, we're going to attack alpha"
"Our plan is to take out the turrets, then push as a group to the generator."
"If you die, wait outside the gate for the next push, and try to keep yourself intact."
"We MUST take the turrets in the first push. Prioritize them."
"Please stick close"
"Good luck, please don't suck."

[TripleEhBeef]

Had one game where we lost quite a few mechs and the initiative due to the peekaboo mindset, but we eventually got a final attack organized and barely lost with just 1% of generator health left.

Another game we had much better coordination. When the gate fell, our lights and meds punched through and legged every mech in our way as we flanked left while our big guys followed us in and shot them in the back. It was Boreal and we had cover against dropships under the ridge, so we tried to bleed the defenders dry, nearly did it, but ran out of time as we made our final push to the generator. But it was a hell of a fight and absolutely my best and most fun game as Attacker.

Both games were PUG/Small group mixes on our side. Admittedly you're going to get groups where people will do frack all no matter how much you try to co-ordinate them, but if you get enough people together to talk strategy, things can work.

Being timid and playing peekaboo is going to be a hard habit to break. I had a skirmish game on Alpine where people decided to run off in ones and twos when we could have pushed and easily murderballed the other team's positions. Instead half our team was cut down by 2 lurm mechs and a spotter. We had the brawler advantage and were less than 500 meters from the enemy when everyone decided to run away from some laser poking.

[fat4eyes]

Bring a UAV. I've found that people get a lot braver when they know where the enemy is. Leading from the front and showing others an approach that won't get them killed also works wonders.

[Ace Selin]

Played one game with PUGs and chat talk was followed for the most part, we lost but it was close.
We got close to the Railgun a few times before dying and there was only a few mechs left on their side after they had killed us off to win. Also on at least 2 occasions it was communicated to wait near gates for reinforcements to then make forced pushes. So PUGs playing strategy and coordinating with others does happen, in fact probably more than bad PUG games, id suggest.

Also OP if you say push, you push, shows the rest you really mean it & most /all will follow, or at least they do when i voice push and actually do push first.

Also cheers to the French speaking 13 man drop i played with today, you chatted your intentions, listened to my advice and it was a fun game overall, despite me palying with the HUD bug all game :-(

Edited by Ace Selin, 14 December 2014 - 12:00 AM.

[Darth Futuza]

This happened to me when I was doing 4 mans today. It was very sad. The worse part? If just one more pug had followed the agreed upon strategy we would have won. I suppose skirmish mode has trained too many of these nerfherders to think killing enemy mechs is more important than completing the objective.

--
A brief recap of the saddest game (we are attacking)
-Friendly light mechs rush base and knocked cannon down to 80% within 2 minutes of the match start, we all die
-By the time light mechs have respawned, we pushed together and took out the center gate and alpha gate. This push did not succeed as far too many pugs attacked enemy mechs instead of torso twisting their way to the cannon.
-After respawning we tried for another push and partially succeeded knocking it down to 50%
-Next push we split with 2 mechs on each far side and the rest of the team in the center and pushed at the same time. Unfortunately our center push did not work very well as pugs stopped to try and fight enemy mech's too much. fortunately some damage was done, base was pushed down to about 40%
-Last push, we came in from the far left and managed to get the base down to 5%
-Last 2 guys left: 1 was an lrm boat (i cried a little), the 2nd was wandering in circles fighting some random enemy mech off to the side instead of pushing with everyone else. If he had just shot the base with one alpha we would have won. Why? WHY!?

Lesson to be learned: push with your team when its time to push - don't be a special snowflake who thinks its okay not to follow the plan.

Bonus lesson: enemy mechs are not the enemy, the cannon is.