46 replies to this topic

[Grantham Besat]

Before I hear one nore thread about real life this or that or one more comment about why a person should be equal to a try hard with no effort I am going to vent my spleen. I work 40 plus hours a week and I do about 20 hours a week of college class and lab time. I am the soul care taker of a disabled parent. This means that I am on a very limited time budget to play and infact the only reason I see the forums is a smart phone. I expect to die like a b; tch at any game I put no effort into. I expect to suck at any game I put no effort into. I full expect in life and ingaming to get owned if I put forth no effort. So why in the h3ll do you all feel it is ok to cry about stuff when you dont put in the effort. I hate to break it to you all but losing happens and because all games are based on math there will always be somthing that is optimal aka meta always exists. So please grow up put on your man pants and play to win if you do not want to lose. If you honestly dont care stop posting excuses.

[Lily from animove]

Grantham Besat, on 12 December 2014 - 03:39 AM, said:

Before I hear one nore thread about real life this or that or one more comment about why a person should be equal to a try hard with no effort I am going to vent my spleen. I work 40 plus hours a week and I do about 20 hours a week of college class and lab time. I am the soul care taker of a disabled parent. This means that I am on a very limited time budget to play and infact the only reason I see the forums is a smart phone. I expect to die like a b; tch at any game I put no effort into. I expect to suck at any game I put no effort into. I full expect in life and ingaming to get owned if I put forth no effort. So why in the h3ll do you all feel it is ok to cry about stuff when you dont put in the effort. I hate to break it to you all but losing happens and because all games are based on math there will always be somthing that is optimal aka meta always exists. So please grow up put on your man pants and play to win if you do not want to lose. If you honestly dont care stop posting excuses.

So my effort increases hitreg?
lowers my latency?
Is it forbidden to have fun in online games and at least a chance to win nowdays by not tryharding?

Cameculture went down the toilet, thats the issue. Cater the tryahards and your game pop dies, and with it, the game. Not a good concept for a game, nor a good to run a company wanting to sell products to their customers.
There shoul always of course be a some top rewards for the dedicated tryharding palyers, but COMMUNITY warfare whould be the base the game is about, and so the base of the COMMUNITY should have its fair share. But right now CW will mean, join a big unit with skilled palyers, train teamplay to a degree that is above casual gameplay. Hope to not be from EU where latency sucks off your hitreg and possible response time.
The main playerbase in MWO is more aged people, having work, family and stuff. Basing the core of the game not for them is going to fail the game.

How about you start to grow up and lern the world is not an epeen stroking contest and that gaming is not real war and survival, and that MWO is not even a competitive game by its mechanics. So all that most people come here is for fun. make the core feature not be fun for them and poeple are gone. And all the little tryhard elite gamers then cna go back playing MWLL or MW4, because MWO has no dedicated private servers a few fans do run. It needs PGI to keep the server alive and paid.

MWO is one game amongst many, people go where the fun is not where MWO is. Lern the sense of gaming and you will see that its not about excuses, it's about fun, distressing and enjoying a world with mechs.

and no based on math there is no meta, meta only exists when there is something unequal, which in game designs often is just bad implementation of mechanics. Ever played WAR? game was quite balanced and also gave people without addiction soem mechanics that upgraded their equip in PvP so that when you were in he lvl 19-30 rank, you were not only cannonfodder as a lvl 19 guy. Was a great game, much more fair but whoever dooms himself with EA as a publisher is just screwed.

reverse question: why do you think it is ok to be unbalanced and the fun of a features should be restricted to specific groups of players?

why is there a reason that sports is seperated into leagues, wight categories or whatever?

cmo anser wosme of the questions, you always answer the question of the league thingy. and you knwo why? becaue its the perfect RL example if how fairnes works, and why moe fair things are interetsing than just seeing vladimir klitschko one hit bashing an amateur on the ground of the Ring. there is also a reason why not every low bob boxer can just challange him, Because its stupid, nonsense boring for both sides and the spectators.
And when there are some allstar teams playing vs amateurs, why don't they trash them 50:0? because its nonsense and not cool, unlike our epeen kiddy online generation. If you knwo you are better you don't have to rub and show this everywhere and everytime, it makes you just look pityfull and one day no one wants to paly with you anymore.
But I guess plying online with so much dedication as these peopel do, some social skills just never developed to a certain degree to understand that.

[Joseph Mallan]

Actually he knows it is not a Epeen stroking contest and quite clearly says so. He drops fights dies has fun. I like his attitude.

[RustyBolts]

I agree. I am seeing a lot of QQ about "I got my ass kicked by a 12 man" or "Attacking is too hard". Good god, if you want an easy to play game go play candy crush.

[Joseph Mallan]

RustyBolts, on 12 December 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

I agree. I am seeing a lot of QQ about "I got my ass kicked by a 12 man" or "Attacking is too hard". Good god, if you want an easy to play game go play candy crush.

For ease of play I play Clash of Clans.

[SkyHammyr]

I see both sides to this argument.

On the one hand, yes, we do want to have a high challenge venue for the hard core players. These guys are, in many cases, the biggest customers as they'll likely spend the most to keep themselves abreast of the current meta. These guys are likely to keep playing and support the game through activity and feedback.

On the other hand, we really do need to cater to the new player and the casual player. Without them, entire revenue streams are lost as a potential hard core players are nipped in the bud due to the immense learning curve this game has. The fact of the matter is, this game is brutal to new/casual player.

Just as much as we need CW, we also need a NPE (New Player Experience). We have to pay attention to both sides of learning curve. We got the CW now, so I can only hope that we'll see some effort put in to bring in more players for said CW.

[Lily from animove]

SkyHammr, on 12 December 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

I see both sides to this argument.

On the one hand, yes, we do want to have a high challenge venue for the hard core players. These guys are, in many cases, the biggest customers as they'll likely spend the most to keep themselves abreast of the current meta. These guys are likely to keep playing and support the game through activity and feedback.

On the other hand, we really do need to cater to the new player and the casual player. Without them, entire revenue streams are lost as a potential hard core players are nipped in the bud due to the immense learning curve this game has. The fact of the matter is, this game is brutal to new/casual player.

Just as much as we need CW, we also need a NPE (New Player Experience). We have to pay attention to both sides of learning curve. We got the CW now, so I can only hope that we'll see some effort put in to bring in more players for said CW.

the first thing needed is a global chat, and probably all newbies in a single "newbie" unit called MWO Academy. So that they actually even can ask questions and all the stuff while being online. Further more of course a 2 man drop to the testing ground. Trying to explain someone the ropes of the game who is compeltely new is quite painful. This also helps them to make ingame contacts.

Then We need a true manual/tutorial. Even if the manual would be just some tables and written descriptions, if they were available ingame, this would help. but right now there is not even a real updated wiki that truly explains the most. Yet only a fraction of people go to the forum. And then probably never find the guide threards. btw. why is the forum search such a horrible thing it's listign things totally weird?

Then when people are not scared of by a flood of information they can not handle, or being clueless, they can actually start playing their first matches and know what they do.

But as said, the casuals need their place too, and I honestly don't think its only the elite palyers who spend a lot money, in MWO ist more the casual, since we have less kiddies, and more the mid ages gamers beign seetled with a job and such. Its mostly the Lore fans who seem to spend money.

[Joseph Mallan]

SkyHammr, on 12 December 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

I see both sides to this argument.

On the one hand, yes, we do want to have a high challenge venue for the hard core players. These guys are, in many cases, the biggest customers as they'll likely spend the most to keep themselves abreast of the current meta. These guys are likely to keep playing and support the game through activity and feedback.

On the other hand, we really do need to cater to the new player and the casual player. Without them, entire revenue streams are lost as a potential hard core players are nipped in the bud due to the immense learning curve this game has. The fact of the matter is, this game is brutal to new/casual player.

Just as much as we need CW, we also need a NPE (New Player Experience). We have to pay attention to both sides of learning curve. We got the CW now, so I can only hope that we'll see some effort put in to bring in more players for said CW.

Ok The PUG Que is where those who want to be Rambo can go play, CW is where the rubber meets the road and you better have on big boy pants. Cause the real fight is there. So let the PUG Que be catered and CW where we get served! THAT is fair enough to me and I want play in both worlds!

[xX PUG Xx]

I suppose having been waiting for CW or some form of it for the last 2 1/2 years I am too excited to be dissed by loosing some matches. Then again I have also never been a subscriber to the "tryhard vs PuG" mentality, its a game. I play, my team wins or it loses; either way 85% of the time I have fun playing.

CW, as far as I interpreted it, was always meant to be the hardest mode to play. Up until now the groups (the well co-ordinated groups) have basically been practicing for this moment and if a random solo player that has never had an interest in putting in the time and effort to learn the game from that side of the coin thinks they will be able to just jump in and not get a beating on some level, they are in for a rude awakening.

I am not the best player in the game, my KDR is JUST in the positive but I have never been one for chasing down the kills. I am the guy that stands and tanks the damage when I am in an assault and deals out as much as possible before dropping. If I take at least one enemy with me, then I'm a happy MechWarrior. On occasion I will have (for me) spectacular drops with 7 or 8 kills, 900 - 1100 damage, etc. but TBH I don't care. Its the experience for those minutes that I am playing, brawling it out with an opponent, trading sniper fire or covering my teammates in a flanking push; its those moments when I forget that I'm sat in front of a PC and get lost in the game.

CW has the potential to provide that in bucket loads and THAT is what I am looking for, if its a hard arsed ***** of a mode then all the better.

[Lily from animove]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 December 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Ok The PUG Que is where those who want to be Rambo can go play, CW is where the rubber meets the road and you better have on big boy pants. Cause the real fight is there. So let the PUG Que be catered and CW where we get served! THAT is fair enough to me and I want play in both worlds!

No its not because CW is what the core of the game actually evger should have been, and if you even know what the term "community" means you would actually already know why your statement is nonsense.

[Revis Volek]

Lily from animove, on 12 December 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

and no based on math there is no meta, meta only exists when there is something unequal, which in game designs often is just bad implementation of mechanics. Ever played WAR? game was quite balanced and also gave people without addiction soem mechanics that upgraded their equip in PvP so that when you were in he lvl 19-30 rank, you were not only cannonfodder as a lvl 19 guy. Was a great game, much more fair but whoever dooms himself with EA as a publisher is just screwed.

You could not be more wrong on that point...Meta is the game within the game. Its about Min/Maxxing better then the guy next to you (or the one your shooting at) so you do better at the game.

It is most certainly ALL about numbers...aren't computers all about numbers anyway?

Lily from animove, on 12 December 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

No its not because CW is what the core of the game actually evger should have been, and if you even know what the term "community" means you would actually already know why your statement is nonsense.

Wrong again sir....please go read some command chair posts.

Edited by DarthRevis, 12 December 2014 - 09:13 AM.

[xX PUG Xx]

Lily from animove, on 12 December 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

No its not because CW is what the core of the game actually evger should have been, and if you even know what the term "community" means you would actually already know why your statement is nonsense.

I believe the name should be revamped, something like Successor Wars or Faction Conflict. CW creates the impression you have just illustrated. As I have said Faction warfare should be the hardest mode and the Devs themselves have stated this is the "Hardcore" mode.

If players go into it expecting it to be hard, then they will not be surprised that it is.... well hard

[Bigbacon]

SkyHammr, on 12 December 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

I see both sides to this argument.

On the one hand, yes, we do want to have a high challenge venue for the hard core players. These guys are, in many cases, the biggest customers as they'll likely spend the most to keep themselves abreast of the current meta. These guys are likely to keep playing and support the game through activity and feedback.

On the other hand, we really do need to cater to the new player and the casual player. Without them, entire revenue streams are lost as a potential hard core players are nipped in the bud due to the immense learning curve this game has. The fact of the matter is, this game is brutal to new/casual player.

Just as much as we need CW, we also need a NPE (New Player Experience). We have to pay attention to both sides of learning curve. We got the CW now, so I can only hope that we'll see some effort put in to bring in more players for said CW.

thank you for this! I like seeing folks who at least acknowledge the solo existence in a positive way and not just bash it to the ground.

There are paying customers that are not just competition hard core folks as well. there are solo folks like myself that put in lots of money and time who would like to enjoy the game from both sides. If either side didn't exist, the game wouldn't exist.

Play to have fun. Once it isn't fun, then people stop.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lily from animove, on 12 December 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

No its not because CW is what the core of the game actually evger should have been, and if you even know what the term "community" means you would actually already know why your statement is nonsense.

oh I do know what community means, Its somewhere lots of people live and do their own thing. Otherwise there would only be one restaurant chain cause the community chose they wanted that. And only One bar cause everyone would want to listen to industrial metal.

[Lily from animove]

DarthRevis, on 12 December 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

You could not be more wrong on that point...Meta is the game within the game. Its about Min/Maxxing better then the guy next to you (or the one your shooting at) so you do better at the game.

It is most certainly ALL about numbers...aren't computers all about numbers anyway?

a game within a game can only exist, when the subset of implemented things is is unlabance.

rock paper scissors for example is the typically balanced game, yet if you would make a game rock, paper scissor and include sand with the rule that it blunts the scissor and erodes the stone, while the paper rules the sand by still ecasing it.

Then you would create an unbalanced meta of sand, paper and scissor where the stone gets menaignless because sand can do what the rock can do as well + sand can even beat the scrissor.

DarthRevis, on 12 December 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

Wrong again sir....please go read some command chair posts.

yes the command posts says this, yet CW was a mean to be corefeature as the game was founded. And the risk of CW failing is exactly those command chair post. Because in a game where 80% of people pug, a Community war designed for the competitive top crowd is going to fail, at the moment people have grabbed their rewards from the houses and never come back to CW.

xX PUG Xx, on 12 December 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

I believe the name should be revamped, something like Successor Wars or Faction Conflict. CW creates the impression you have just illustrated. As I have said Faction warfare should be the hardest mode and the Devs themselves have stated this is the "Hardcore" mode.

If players go into it expecting it to be hard, then they will not be surprised that it is.... well hard

yes this would help + open up the "invasion" mode as maps for PUG and group queue. because this mode is the core that MWO ever should have been. Otherwise the PUG and solos still stay in a unfinished MWO and may leave sooner or later as well.

Joseph Mallan, on 12 December 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

oh I do know what community means, Its somewhere lots of people live and do their own thing. Otherwise there would only be one restaurant chain cause the community chose they wanted that. And only One bar cause everyone would want to listen to industrial metal.

Thats the point, and where in the CW can the casuals do their own thing? they can't. They have to bow themselves in front of the meta deciding we only going to eat Chinese and listen to Justin Bieber.

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 December 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 December 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Actually he knows it is not a Epeen stroking contest and quite clearly says so. He drops fights dies has fun. I like his attitude.

You mean he doesn't whine about why he lost and expect the entire game to be balanced to that one singular aspect????

What a concept!

[Quaamik]

Grantham Besat, on 12 December 2014 - 03:39 AM, said:

Before I hear one nore thread about real life this or that or one more comment about why a person should be equal to a try hard with no effort I am going to vent my spleen. I work 40 plus hours a week and I do about 20 hours a week of college class and lab time. I am the soul care taker of a disabled parent. This means that I am on a very limited time budget to play and infact the only reason I see the forums is a smart phone. I expect to die like a b; tch at any game I put no effort into. I expect to suck at any game I put no effort into. I full expect in life and ingaming to get owned if I put forth no effort. So why in the h3ll do you all feel it is ok to cry about stuff when you dont put in the effort. I hate to break it to you all but losing happens and because all games are based on math there will always be somthing that is optimal aka meta always exists. So please grow up put on your man pants and play to win if you do not want to lose. If you honestly dont care stop posting excuses.

Three issues:

1) This does not apply to broken game mechanics. Lag, hit registry, disconnects, "team" games such as this when some team members are AFK, Disconnects or poor skilled players are lumped in the same group as better players.

2) This does not apply to game mechanics that allow / encourage outside of game add ons that give a competitive advantage. Lack of in game VoIP in a team game, with added encouragement to go to an outside program (teamspeak). Firing macros to "work around" timing weapons fire. Targeting macros to take skill out of it. Its like letting a chess player win by punching their opponent.

3) Games of all types, and most of life, is divided by skill into tiers. You don't see a professional baseball player getting randomly grouped on a team of amateur softball players. You don't see the New York Yankees playing against the local little league team. In school (college), PhDs don't get to take entry level classes to pad their grade point, and a freshman's composition paper is not graded to the same standards as a PhD. Even in business, which s far more serious than games (which are supposed to be fun), The receptionist or janitor is not rated (or compensated) on their financial planning skills the same as a VP or CEO is.

No one should have to feel that to play a game they need to dedicate 20, 30 or more hours a week - every week - to have fun. Those games that by design, or by mistake, allow that soon fall by the wayside.

[Sandpit]

Quaamik, on 12 December 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

No one should have to feel that to play a game they need to dedicate 20, 30 or more hours a week - every week - to have fun. Those games that by design, or by mistake, allow that soon fall by the wayside.

so we're agreed then that they have the pub queue to play casually.

[Onyxian]

Only got into one game in 3 hours of trying, but my two cents,

As a pug-only player, I really don't mind not having Elo matching, or this being a hardcore mode, per se. That said, the only game I got into was a a pug attack on a 12 man defense. It ended the way you would think it would.

It would be nice if there were enough players for the big groups to just fight big groups, because a 12 man fighting pugs, ESP if the 12 man is on D, is just a waste of everyone's time. It's not competitive, and not very fun, which I think is what most folks yearn for. Now, if we could EVER get VoIP for pug drops, that would even the playing field a lot.

Fwiw, as a pug, I am ONLY choosing defend from now on. Pug groups need every advantage we can get.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lily from animove, on 12 December 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

Thats the point, and where in the CW can the casuals do their own thing? they can't. They have to bow themselves in front of the meta deciding we only going to eat Chinese and listen to Justin Bieber.

That is only half true. You pick the planet you wanna help out on. When enough players are in in Que you drop. It might be a 6 man and 6 PUGS or an 11 man with just you. But it was said over and over this is how PUGs will work in CW. I was in a CW drop last night with 8 Lawmen and 4 CapComs attacking a Kurita world with all 12 Kuritans. That is exactly how CW was sold to me when I watched the Video of how it was going to work. It was unfortunate that the CapCom was there in my opinion cause they reall don't get anything out of winning that planet per se.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 December 2014 - 10:55 AM.