11 replies to this topic

[The Massive]

And me.

Because most of the time I'm a pugger. Yes I'm in a group. But if they're not on, I'm a pugger.

Winning in CW seems to require teamwork on a level some orders of magnitude above what I've seen anywhere before.

I've been playing CW solid for 2 days and finally my hearts been broken. So I rage quitted and jumped straight onto the forums. But before I typed I took a deep breath........... and read.

It seems like wins in CW are easy, if you can co-ordinate. But puggers can't co-ordinate. So pug attackers can't win. Because they can't co-ordinate.

A co-ordinated 12 man push to the cannon wins. But with puggers some want to hide. Others want to stand still in front of 3 other mechs. So you only get four or five man pushes. Which can't win.

So once again, it's not the game. It's not the servers. It's not the 12 mans. It's not even PGI. It's you.

[Kiiyor]

It'll be OK, once new meta develops and Puggers loose their overwhelmingly cautious playstyles. As it stands, half the team sits and twiddles their thumbs behind the gate trading potshots with a few defenders, while the other half is cut to ribbons by turrets.

A deathball is an unorganized teams best chance at success, at the moment. It's a slim chance, but it's better than most matches.

[Vassago Rain]

Timidity is not a valid tactic.

If they lose enough, the pubbies will learn, or they'll leave.

[Bows3r]

I'll be honest it was very disheartening for me to see how badly organized pug players are in CW. Every time my unit, the Restless Adders went into CW against pugs, it was a complete whitewash, I genuinely felt bad, I really did.

[Vassago Rain]

Bows3r, on 14 December 2014 - 03:41 AM, said:

I'll be honest it was very disheartening for me to see how badly organized pug players are in CW. Every time my unit, the Restless Adders went into CW against pugs, it was a complete whitewash, I genuinely felt bad, I really did.

I love stomping. Easy c-bills.

[Bows3r]

True that, earned enough to buy my last Stormcrow from nearly broke, in just 4 hours of CW. Some matches I made well over 800k cbills, and one member of my unit broke 1 million.

I think pugs need to be more willing to type into chat, and listen to orders given by people, instead of disabling all chat or even team chat.

[Bluttrunken]

Yeah.. partially, it's hard for a pug to attack because it requires absolute teamwork and absolute clarity of purpose but then again I'm of the opinion attackers should need to destroy secondary objectives as well, like 2 emergency reactors or similar. I know attacking can be tough with no teamwork and coordination but it can be too easy as you just need to swarm the primary objective. Another option would be that you need to destroy the generator and 75-100% of the enemy team. But in exchange for destroying the generator your dropships release you at the gates. One might also take a look at the gate mechanics, I think the reactor should be attackable from more than 1 position, so defenders can't just focus on one spot.

It's Beta and so far it's nice, even though i can only go in solo atm.

Edited by k05h3lk1n, 14 December 2014 - 05:21 AM.

[Griggio]

When the guy next to you glitches out, stuck on an edge so hard it causes your screen to do a permanent screen shake for a good chunk of the match, it's safe to say it's a little bit CW......mostly you.......but a little bit CW

From my experiences I lay a large part of less than stellar performance on the solo pub que. There's a lot of carrying going on there, and all that ends up doing is validating bad tactics as good tactics. (It's also why I think Elo is totally useless there since the group que came to life). You develop bad habits (lemming mentality, shooting through teammates, chasing for kills) and then enter a hyper competitive environment like CW and it kicks you in the teeth.

Of course this is a general statement and it's not the case for everyone, but I wonder how different the average level of play would be in solo drops if CW would have come out first.

[AEgg]

It takes tactics to win on offense, but not to win on defense. Regardless of whether you're a group or solo player, isn't that a problem?

[oldradagast]

Maccasimus, on 14 December 2014 - 02:49 AM, said:

And me.

Because most of the time I'm a pugger. Yes I'm in a group. But if they're not on, I'm a pugger.

Winning in CW seems to require teamwork on a level some orders of magnitude above what I've seen anywhere before.

I've been playing CW solid for 2 days and finally my hearts been broken. So I rage quitted and jumped straight onto the forums. But before I typed I took a deep breath........... and read.

It seems like wins in CW are easy, if you can co-ordinate. But puggers can't co-ordinate. So pug attackers can't win. Because they can't co-ordinate.

A co-ordinated 12 man push to the cannon wins. But with puggers some want to hide. Others want to stand still in front of 3 other mechs. So you only get four or five man pushes. Which can't win.

So once again, it's not the game. It's not the servers. It's not the 12 mans. It's not even PGI. It's you.

I agree that being part of a 12-man matters, but I disagree with the notion that the problem is "you" or "me."

The problem is far more than that:

- 2 years of gaming have trained people to hide and trade pot-shots, not act in an aggressive manner that is often needed for CW games.

- A lack of built-in coms heavily punishes puggers.

- A lack of useful in-game information has made it hard for those same puggers to even figure out where to go to find a unit, join them, get on Teamspeak, etc. There's this odd assumption in the community that "everyone knows that." Why? There's no reason to assume that everyone play MWO has played several other similar games already and thus knows about Teamspeak, etc. And there's no reason to assume that they will visit the forums ever, either.

- CW is still full of bugs, from exploits to just lousy performance, glitches, etc.

Long story short, I suspect if most of the rather isolated, but decent, players were in a 12-man, they'd probably perform just as well as the 12-man, assuming coms and some level of coordination. The gap in outcome is NOT based so much on "skill" - as certain people would have you believe - but rather on how involved every player wishes to be in the game, how large a unit they may be a part of, when they play the game, how many people they know and want to play with, etc.

Edited by oldradagast, 14 December 2014 - 07:34 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

AEgg, on 14 December 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

It takes tactics to win on offense, but not to win on defense. Regardless of whether you're a group or solo player, isn't that a problem?

Oh but even on Defense you seem to be on the offense as well. We only took defense drops Friday night. and everyone we ended up outside the walls attcking.

[Kirkland Langue]

AEgg, on 14 December 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

It takes tactics to win on offense, but not to win on defense. Regardless of whether you're a group or solo player, isn't that a problem?

Which part of that do you see as a problem? Personally I think it is a good thing that Pug teams have a place in CW where they can hope to do well against a full 12-man. Will they "usually win"? no. But just having enough of a chance to win as a Pugger is a huge thing and PGI would be insane to make it impossible.

The only part that I see as a problem is that Pugs have such awful chances at winning when attacking, that I question why they are even forced to attack at all. Heck, you can change your dropdeck once you know whether you are defending or counterattacking, or attacking, so it isn't as though having the counter attacks keep people from having specialized dropdecks.