69 replies to this topic

[Calder dk]

The Gargoyle.

It needs some more tons to play around with 5-7 tons more would be good.

If compared to the Victor with the same engine and setup the Gargoyle will have 19,6 tons to play around with the Victor has 18,7 but can slap on endo-steel, drop the engine to a smaller size or drop some heat sinks.
With endo-steel the Victor has 22,7 tons to play around with. Granted it will die if it loses a side torso but then again it has jump jets, and can go to a standard engine if need be.

If the Gargoyle should be a mech that you see more in the wild, it will need some extra tons for heat sinks or weapons.

[Escef]

I have no idea where you expect them to scare the tonnage up from.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Needs perks for heat reduction and decreased cool time.

[LT. HARDCASE]

XL400 Gargoyle will eat an XL400 VIctor for brunch.

It just needs quirks. Badly.

Edited by Kevjack, 14 December 2014 - 06:44 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

LBX5 CD quirk so it can do with LBX5 what the cent does with LBX10.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Kevjack, on 14 December 2014 - 06:44 PM, said:

XL400 Gargoyle will eat an XL400 VIctor for brunch.

Errm, no.

Victor can mount an Ac20 and have firepower to spare. Likewise it can put on two UAC5s and still boat lasers and missles.

Victor definitely has an edge in firepower.

[darkkterror]

Escef, on 14 December 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

I have no idea where you expect them to scare the tonnage up from.

Well, we already have Ghost Heat, so maybe Ghost Tonnage won't be too much of a stretch.

[Angel of Annihilation]

My god your right. It is a horrible mech.

Why I am only averaging a 3.67 K/D in my Prime and a 2.50 K/D in my A variant.

On a serious note, I don't have alot of matches in either of them yet but I have enough that those numbers there, indicate that the Gargoyle is not really having alot of trouble competing and I figure they will level out at about a 1.75 to 2.25 K/D which is above average. Also I have been leveling them in CW (which doesn't display in your stats btw) and they seem to be more than holding their own there as well.

[FupDup]

Kevjack, on 14 December 2014 - 06:44 PM, said:

XL400 Gargoyle will eat an XL400 VIctor for brunch.

...

A more sensible Victor build (who uses XL400 on that thing?) would eat the Gargles.



As for quirks, I think what we need is...

1. Examine the hitboxes, shrink the CT a little bit for higher durability.

2. Since the Alternate A doesn't have any CT hardpoints, it having some extra CT armor as a quirk would make sense.

3. All of them need better acceleration and deceleration rates.

4. Improved torso twisting agility on all variants.

5. Moar omnipods, particularly side torso hardpoints (and don't mount them as low as the belly button this time!).

Edited by FupDup, 14 December 2014 - 07:36 PM.

[Risko Vinsheen]

I've been enjoying my Gargoyles so far in Community Warfare. Currently using an LBX-10 + 4 ERMed build in the A.

I do think it could use some nice quirks to help it out, though. It needs some maneuverability quirks to take advantage of it being a speedy Assault, and could probably use some energy heat reduction quirks. Even though it has 16 heat sinks stock it still runs hot if you're trying to keep up the DPS.

[Void Angel]

Escef, on 14 December 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

I have no idea where you expect them to scare the tonnage up from.

Men call it... "Endo-Steel."

However, I suspect we won't see a pass on the Gargoyle until a later date.

[Tennex]

its a bit big for the tonnage

[Escef]

Void Angel, on 14 December 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

Men call it... "Endo-Steel."

However, I suspect we won't see a pass on the Gargoyle until a later date.

Yeah, dude, I fully expect they'll break canon and put endo steel on the Gargoyle... Did you even think before you answered?

[Rakshasa]

Gargoyle is fun, but it's too much engine. Speed-wise it's trying to be a Medium, but in doing that it's not able to do the job of an Assault due to the horrible amount of tonnage it loses for that mobility. If you could drop the engine size from a 400 to a 320 you'd save around 15 tons - and at 64kph you'd still be fast for an Assault. If you could whack on Jump Jets for 4 extra tons you'd have one of the most mobile Assaults in its size category whilst still packing around 30 tons for weapons.

It's not the only Clan 'mech to do this either. I've mentioned a few times that Clan 'Mechs seem to be all over the shop when it comes to their speeds, and some of them are pretty badly gimped trying to be a weight class they're not. The Clan Lights are all too slow for their class, and the tiny amount of weight they save under-rating their engines they usually waste on heavy, ammo-utilizing weapons like missiles and ballistics. On the flip side of the coin 'mechs like the Ice Ferret and Gargoyle try to mimic the mobility of lighter classes and end up sorely undergunned because of it.

Sadly, other than swapping weapons there's not much we can do about it - these were the designs the writers ran with way back in the day. Best you can do for the forseeable future is to try and squeeze as much firepower out of your Gargoyle as you can for the least weight per gun, and that usually means energy weapons. I've had a few good runs by swapping out the arms and mounting a pair of LPL's, 3 ER MLas and 5 extra heat sinks; it runs a bit warmer than I'd like, and it usually comes off worst in a head to head with another Assault, but it's still much better than the stock loadout

Edited by Rakshasa, 14 December 2014 - 08:29 PM.

[Greenjulius]

Amusingly, the Gargoyle currently hold my best K/D ratio of 5.43. 38-7 for kills to deaths, 13-4 for wins to loses.

I run mine with 6xMPL and don't have issues with it. Sure, I'd love to see it shrunk down to Timber sizes, but more than likely they won't.

So perks, like armor buffs for the arms and small CT hitboxes would help it a lot.

It's never going to be Timber or Hellbringer level competitive, but it's much better than the Ice Ferret and Myst Lynx.

[Rakshasa]

Escef, on 14 December 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

Yeah, dude, I fully expect they'll break canon and put endo steel on the Gargoyle... Did you even think before you answered?

PGI have already broken canon with the OmniMech rules by allowing players to alter the armour values. Adding Endo Steel to Clan mech designs might not be "canon", but it would be both sensible and viable in many cases from a design point of view. As Void Angel said though, it's likely to be a long, long time before such an option is ever allowed, if it ever is at all.

[Vanguard836]

Rakshasa, on 14 December 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

PGI have already broken canon with the OmniMech rules by allowing players to alter the armour values. Adding Endo Steel to Clan mech designs might not be "canon", but it would be both sensible and viable in many cases from a design point of view. As Void Angel said though, it's likely to be a long, long time before such an option is ever allowed, if it ever is at all.

Could also opt to allow endo steel and / or FF only on chassis that do not have them. Those that do have it as part of the base build cannot remove it as it currently is.

Could definitely help out some mechs like the summoner and gargoyle with an extra 3.5 and 4 tons respectively.

Edited by Vanguard836, 14 December 2014 - 08:09 PM.

[Escef]

Rakshasa, on 14 December 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

PGI have already broken canon with the OmniMech rules by allowing players to alter the armour values. Adding Endo Steel to Clan mech designs might not be "canon", but it would be both sensible and viable in many cases from a design point of view. As Void Angel said though, it's likely to be a long, long time before such an option is ever allowed, if it ever is at all.

There's a huge difference between tweaking armor values (which even in TT weren't optimized), and altering structural components. They haven't allowed the addition or subtraction of endo or ferro yet, and there is no reason to expect them to do so.

[Adamasartus]

It's hard to buff the Gargoyle without compromising it's purpose.

The Gargoyle is heavy on speed and armour but low on firepower. That's it's point. I feel it should be buffed in terms of outright survivability and cooling but not in firepower. Maybe with torso turn rates, acceleration and deceleration.

[Void Angel]

Escef, on 14 December 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

Yeah, dude, I fully expect they'll break canon and put endo steel on the Gargoyle... Did you even think before you answered?

Because they've never broken canon for game balance yet! I see it now; oh, if only I had thought about it before I posted - I guess I just don't have a brain in my silly little head.