3 replies to this topic

[Halfinax]

I've seen within these forums a wide range of subjects and threads regarding game balance. Each has had their own view point, and own merits and faults.

I know there are many demerits to the basic Table Top version of the Battle Value(BV) system. Many have valid complaints against them, but 13 years of refinement have brought the BV system to within a highly refind system if only for the TT version of the game that MWO desires to emulate.

Now it's easy to argue that the TT version of the Battletech rules will not and cannot for the most part translate well to a First Person Simulation. I could not agree more on this point of contention. As both an avid fan of the TT version of Battletech, and as a video gamer who enjoys a great many genres of games.

To completely discount the rules without any regard to the source material or balance laid out within though is a travesty. To put it anecdotally: "How would you recieve a movie based on a particularlly beloved book?" Let's just say for the sake of argument that the movie completely discounted storyline, plot, character value's, character personality, and character interaction, but kept the general setting.

Everything you loved about your novel was gone other than the setting, and the movie made in it's name was just another generic action movie with no relevance to what came before it. There is no balance in the story or characters.

Something similar occurs if you completely remove the BV system from Mechwarrior. If all other aspects beyond "giant robots fighting in space" is removed then you end up with an empty shell, and if you also remove the albiet semi arbitrary abstraction of relative effectiveness of equipment on said battlefield then you've taken away any semblance of balance or even any semblance of what made the game enjoyable.

I cannot and will not advocate the complete removal of a video game version of the Battletech system that is entirely removed from it's source, but I also would not advocate a unyielding adherence to the rules that exist with the table top game system.

A compromise that fits within both realms must be achieved. Here I only refer to basic balance as would exist between team on team battles to achieve a balanced field of combat, but throughout these forums we've seen this same discusion argued, heatedly, across many aspects of the same general principles. There exists a middle ground in all these regards, and rather than slavishly committing ourselves to one school or the other we all, as a community, need to find and perpetuate the middle ground.

This is purely my opinion, and I'd love to see differing view points without any angst or downright hostility towards those who hold a point of view differing from our own.

[Kudzu]

For those who don't know what the Battle Value system is:

It's basically a measurement for how "good" a mech is. It factors in things like speed, weapons, armor, heat sinks, equipment, pilot level, and so on and provides a number to compare to other mechs so that you can match forces equally.

For example: With 4/5 pilots (your average pilot)

• the 3025 era AS7-D has a BV of 1,897
  
• the 3025 era LCT-1V Locust has a BV of 432
  
• the Clan Timber Wolf (Mad Cat for you IS savages) Prime has a BV of 2,737.

This gives us a decent idea of which mechs are better than others and how to match them up fairly.

Using a straight port from the TT would not be a good idea, as Hal mentioned. However, the basic concept is still good and could easily be adjusted for use in MW:O.

[Hollister]

The whole point of the Clan honor system with bidding was using the least amount of resouces and equipment to take a given objective. When lesser gear was used more honor was gained from such a achivement. If memory serves you would read about in the novels about a trinary going against a inner sphere Battalion. Which would be 15 Clan mechs vs 30+- inner sphere mechs. Can not remember the amount going by 3 companys with 3 lances each or there abouts. So why would this not be built into the game to begin with.

Edited by Hollister, 22 November 2011 - 11:06 PM.

[Halfinax]

Hollister, on 22 November 2011 - 11:06 PM, said:

The whole point of the Clan honor system with bidding was using the least amount of resouces and equipment to take a given objective. When lesser gear was used more honor was gained from such a achivement. If memory serves you would read about in the novels about a trinary going against a inner sphere Battalion. Which would be 15 Clan mechs vs 30+- inner sphere mechs. Can not remember the amount going by 3 companys with 3 lances each or there abouts. So why would this not be built into the game to begin with.

That's a pretty decent summation of what the Battle Value system represents. The Clans typically had better technological advantages, and in the TT game this is weighted against a greater BV cost. Essentially a Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) is a BV: 2,737 Battlemech, and a Marauder is a 1,363 BV system. Both weigh in at 75 tons, but the Timber Wolf has greater range, durability, speed, and heat management due to it's technological superiority.

Obviously some if not most of that can be mitigated through player skill, but assuming both players are equally adept then the player using the superior technology should win every time. If the devs implement a BV abstraction (as appropriate for a FPSimulation over what is appropriate for a commander's Turn Based Strategy Game.) then the game will be more balanced on a 1:1 scale if not in numbers, but in quantitative value of equipment. This would eliminate the bigger is better mentality, and would actually encourage multi role game play.