28 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Strig, on 15 December 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

@ SandPit and BishopSteiner

I agree with you both, just want to make sure that we don't stifle people pointing out things they don't feel are fair ... many of them will be whiners ... but some might point out something that PGI didn't think of and facepalms when they see it ...

Perhaps they wanted you to have to open a gate before even being able to drop the BASE (... like LoL having to make sure you break a tower down to attack an inner tower/generator/nexus).

Perhaps they don't want lights to be able to get stuck "inside" the gun and be able to win with no chance of being destroyed (this one I am almost 100% certain is an "exploit" in the 3rd sense of the word).

I don't mind the "jump the gates" strategy but it does seem like it becomes a little lame, much the way light-rush base caps were in assault ... no one liked them (perhaps a few light pilots got their jollies for a while and raked in a lot of wins). They were a valid way to win, but it encouraged aberrant and undesirable game-play and PGI added defense to mitigate this approach and required a more tactical approach.

I, personally, think there should be something done to make the 12 light base rush a little harder to accomplish. Ideally requiring at least one gate to be opened first.

I NEVER dog out someone who makes a post with constructive feedback, even if I disagree with it.

I've seen the zerg rush in action and personally I just don't see the issue with it. Attacking is extremely difficult with all the base defenses in place. The zerg rush only works with fast moving lights or mediums. Anything else is too slow. Most times I see it working is when the defending team gets spread out and tries to take up position too far forward.

I personally would like to see the gates made higher so they can't be jumped over period but I'd also like ot see more entrance points. 5-6 entrance points would make thigns much more interesting IMO. It would also force both sides to think a little more strategically.

Also adding in a "perch" for defenders that allows a jumping light to take up a crow's nest position and see big areas would be awesome and help prevent that zerg rush tactic a bit also.

Buffing base defenses is just a bad idea IMO. The base defenses are already very stout and buffing them would make it near impossible for anything BUT a zerg rush to win. That's the other side f things. The more difficult you make it for that one singular tactic with buffing damage output for the base, the more near impossible you make it for nearly any other tactic to win.

[Mawai]

Thanks for posting that video.

I don't see any problems with the strategies ... alternating assaults with lights and coordinating is cool.

However, the safe spot behind the generator that can be reached with light mechs with jump jets isn't. In my opinion it is an exploit and hopefully PGI will patch it out of existence sometime soon.

[Voivode]

Mawai, on 15 December 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

Thanks for posting that video.

I don't see any problems with the strategies ... alternating assaults with lights and coordinating is cool.

However, the safe spot behind the generator that can be reached with light mechs with jump jets isn't. In my opinion it is an exploit and hopefully PGI will patch it out of existence sometime soon.

From personal experience it isn't really a safe spot. The turrets can hit you when you are there (they didn't in the video because they were shooting other targets) and enemy mechs, even non-jumpjetting mechs, can hit you while you stand there. It's less of an exploit than the video would indicate. I've learned that from getting shot to pieces in a spider in the exact same spot.

[Selene Lunaris]

Leaving all the silly arguing and debating aside, as soon as my contract with Wolf ends, I'm willing to contribute a HM to the CAUSE.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sandpit, on 15 December 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

I NEVER dog out someone who makes a post with constructive feedback, even if I disagree with it.

I've seen the zerg rush in action and personally I just don't see the issue with it. Attacking is extremely difficult with all the base defenses in place. The zerg rush only works with fast moving lights or mediums. Anything else is too slow. Most times I see it working is when the defending team gets spread out and tries to take up position too far forward.

I personally would like to see the gates made higher so they can't be jumped over period but I'd also like ot see more entrance points. 5-6 entrance points would make thigns much more interesting IMO. It would also force both sides to think a little more strategically.

Also adding in a "perch" for defenders that allows a jumping light to take up a crow's nest position and see big areas would be awesome and help prevent that zerg rush tactic a bit also.

Buffing base defenses is just a bad idea IMO. The base defenses are already very stout and buffing them would make it near impossible for anything BUT a zerg rush to win. That's the other side f things. The more difficult you make it for that one singular tactic with buffing damage output for the base, the more near impossible you make it for nearly any other tactic to win.

I think there needs to be more "depth" to the defenses, not necessarily "harder". For instance, the gate generators are stupidly placed (from a realistic defense standpoint). I'd like to ideally see them lower, and the gates higher, so your average 2 JJ ShadowHAwk can't clear, but 3-4 JJ mechs either can poptart the generator, and one with more, clear the entire gate to shoot at it directly.

Wait wait, you say, that just made things tougher!!! ................. but at the same time, I think that the gate generators SHOULD be damageable by Arty and Airstrikes, and that they also should be NARC-able so a Light mech could plant a NARC and heavier units with LRMs could still contribute to bringing it down.

On Sulfurous Rift, there needs to be more of a cushion between the gates and the Orbital Gun.

But I would also like to see sally ports where small numbers of defending mechs can engage the enemy from outside the gate, too, making the first wave more seriously about breaching the gate. Also some walkways inside the wall so mechs can fire from the wall at enemies or raised positions.

But at the same token, I think the mountains in the middle of Sulfur should be not out of bounds, but have goat paths only the jumpiest of mechs can traverse.....giving a small group a chance to circumvent the defenses, and try for a "commando raid" on the generator. Etc.

[Sandpit]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

I think there needs to be more "depth" to the defenses, not necessarily "harder". For instance, the gate generators are stupidly placed (from a realistic defense standpoint). I'd like to ideally see them lower, and the gates higher, so your average 2 JJ ShadowHAwk can't clear, but 3-4 JJ mechs either can poptart the generator, and one with more, clear the entire gate to shoot at it directly.

Wait wait, you say, that just made things tougher!!! ................. but at the same time, I think that the gate generators SHOULD be damageable by Arty and Airstrikes, and that they also should be NARC-able so a Light mech could plant a NARC and heavier units with LRMs could still contribute to bringing it down.

On Sulfurous Rift, there needs to be more of a cushion between the gates and the Orbital Gun.

But I would also like to see sally ports where small numbers of defending mechs can engage the enemy from outside the gate, too, making the first wave more seriously about breaching the gate. Also some walkways inside the wall so mechs can fire from the wall at enemies or raised positions.

But at the same token, I think the mountains in the middle of Sulfur should be not out of bounds, but have goat paths only the jumpiest of mechs can traverse.....giving a small group a chance to circumvent the defenses, and try for a "commando raid" on the generator. Etc.

I think making the actual base portion of the map would help as well. Not the attacker portion but extend the size of the base. That would help slow down a zerg style attack but not eliminate it. Adding in more entry points along with this would add some itneresting tactics IMO

[Sgt Greyhawk]

As stated previously the small platform on the orbital cannon is still accessible to fire from the ground. It is not an exploit and all it takes is some well placed shots and those lights that already ran the gauntlet into the base would be put down fairly quickly.

Strange how this thread started with the use of the Heavy Metal mech and now it's at this now.

Edited by Sgt Greyhawk, 16 December 2014 - 12:43 AM.

[Robot Kenshiro]

I'm not one to judge any tactic or exploit or whatever. All in all in my CW experience is that at current our que tines are a bit shot out the window some get in asap. Some wait 5 mins. Some wait 10. Some.... forever. I understand zerging the gen at omega is viable. And some want the win more than anything. I for one think CW is a chance for alot of us to get most out of the play time. I mean think of it. 4 mech drops? He'll I get the mission objectives are there. But they are still way too simple. Every solo qued game mode before CW is pretty much kill every mech = win. Now it's just kill the gen = win and take over the planet or whatever. How about we slug it out the old fashioned way sometimes and fight it out. Cos seriously at the end of the game match. More kills. More assists more damage. More components destroyed = more xp more c bills more lp. And that's not just for me. That's everyone who want a to have a good old fashioned slug fest but 4 times longer. I found the CW match that slugged it out were more fun than seeing ppl zeroing the **** out of the gen. Yes it's priority target. But gosh. Killing peeps along the way is fun too. I know alot of ppl are gonna burn me by saying gtfo and solo que. But I'm just stating that having 4 mechs to pilot each CW match is alot of fun and can be more fun if ppl chill a bit. I know by nature this is a war. But come on. In the virtual world let the war be fun. I sure love shredding arms and legs and armor of my enemies and the more of that there is. The better Imo. My 2 cents. Sorry if I upset anyone.

Edited by Robot Kenshiro, 16 December 2014 - 12:59 AM.

[MikeBend]

Strig, on 15 December 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

I, personally, think there should be something done to make the 12 light base rush a little harder to accomplish. Ideally requiring at least one gate to be opened first.

A few streak towers near the Orbital cannon.