53 replies to this topic

[SirSlaughter]

A couple of things that could improve CW invasion experience imho:

• Gate generators should be placed in a different location than the gate itself (as the OP already said) outside the walls.
  
• Gate generators should be defendable or they are useless gameplay wise.
  
• Defenders should be allowed to exit gates to scout and to defend generators (see previous point).
  
• Defenders should be allowed to climb the walls to defend them.
  
• The base should be revisited, because defenders spawn point are too close to the combat zone.

Edited by SirSlaughter, 15 December 2014 - 03:05 AM.

[Lily from animove]

generators ourside the walls? thats a pointless defense concept.

[KrazedOmega]

Lily from animove, on 15 December 2014 - 03:19 AM, said:

generators ourside the walls? thats a pointless defense concept.

So is what we have now.

[Lily from animove]

KrazedOmega, on 15 December 2014 - 03:53 AM, said:

So is what we have now.

which is also pointless, further more mostly because defenders can not climb the gate and even try proper defending, this works only on a very limit amount of spots and gates. If it would be possible, it would allow defenders to properly fight back.

[Donnerkeil666]

Gates/Generator should be conquered similar to the conquest mode. They stay open as long as you hold it. The defenders could reconquer it to close the gates agin.
Also maybe there could be a conquerable LZ within the gates, so as long as you hold that you respawn closer to the battle.

[LordKnightFandragon]

The gates are not almost useless, they are useless....the enemy can get in no issue every time. No defense in their right mind is going to counter poke through the narrow corridor and try to stop the whole enemy force....

CW maps do need work.

[Sigmar Sich]

One thing about gates, i wonder - how can they open after generator destruction? (not gameplay, but logically) You need generator to power gates so they can be opened.

So generator capture makes more sense. Though it leads to more problems - how do you capture generator, if gates are closed? If place generator outside walls - well, it could be ok by gameplay, but really dumb.

About firing position on gates for defenders. I believe gates gameplay would be better if 1) gates have some space for few mechs to shoot from top, 2) gate complex would be lower, allowing JJ storm, 3) attackers should have more cover in front of gates, something like trenched positions in Boreal vault, plus some other cover.
But this probably will need changes with gate opening mechanics.

Edited by Sigmar Sich, 15 December 2014 - 06:40 AM.

[Darth Futuza]

Saobh, on 15 December 2014 - 02:50 AM, said:

Well one thing is for sure, in whatever year in the future MW is they sure as hell haven't hear about Vauban fortifications ...

You have to admit that it would be nice to have some maps with some real fortifications system in place and give the attacking side more drops.

Any proper defense should indeed have a defended vs equal # attackers end with the attackers getting their butts kicked, that's why assaulting castles was either done with a vastly superior army or by waiting them out.

have a map with the defenses bases on the star fortification design (just cut in half so that the assault comes from only one side


it makes for an incremental approach with a mix of long range and brawler action. It solves the zerging problem as the approach routes are long and with little cover.

Give attackers more tonnage with a limit of 8 mechs and you should have an even sided battle.

I mean, just look at history for some well designed and interesting places for these types of battles. You don't need to reinvent what has been studied for centuries...

...but do you really want to make it near impossible to win as an attacker?

[Exodus001]

Donnerkeil666, on 15 December 2014 - 04:59 AM, said:

Gates/Generator should be conquered similar to the conquest mode. They stay open as long as you hold it. The defenders could reconquer it to close the gates agin.
Also maybe there could be a conquerable LZ within the gates, so as long as you hold that you respawn closer to the battle.

I would love to see something like this. Perhaps 2 or three gates on the way to the base and each one once captured would be a closer LZ. maybe the defenders would start at the closest gate and be slowly pushed back or perhaps choose what LZ to drop at?

[Donnerkeil666]

Sigmar Sich, on 15 December 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

One thing about gates, i wonder - how can they open after generator destruction? (not gameplay, but logically) You need generator to power gates so they can be opened.

Easy, the gates are springloaded and only kept shut by a huge electromagnet.

[Khobai]

right now gates are useless and exist solely as a formality.

The base gates either need to be capturable to open/close them or they need to repair slowly and close again every few minutes.

Additionally the cannon needs more health to deter rushing.

Edited by Khobai, 15 December 2014 - 07:22 AM.

[Saobh]

Darth Futuza, on 15 December 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

...but do you really want to make it near impossible to win as an attacker?

Well tbh attacking a well fortified area should indeed be difficult and costly. So unless you are a well coordinated team it should fail (or the defenders make some very big mistakes, like not being present ) but it also means that

Yeah it sucks loosing but having superior odds makes winning also much more sweet. And in order to balance the difficulty (and so people don't feel like they wasted their time) have some appropriate rewards count it like a win reward wise if you get the 2nd gate level open and a x1.5 multiplier to the match if you indeed destroy the cannon (while adding more points to the planetary assault progression)

I've had lots of matches either in defense or assault which where great to play even tho we "lost" and both side had a blast at it... seriously I would prefer we concentrate on making matches more interesting and tactical rather then make them falsely "fair" so that people can pat their ego because they need to "win" 50% of the time.


And as I proposed you give the attackers more mechs to throw at the defenses you will have more intense matches where attrition is going to play its part as it should be when it comes to a fortification defense. When you send 100 troops to assault a castle defended by 100 troops do you really expect it to end well for the attackers ? heck no. they'll need at least 500 people going up those walls and banging down that door to have a chance to take it. And even if MW presents itself like a futuristic game in the end its a bow & arrow medieval game for all intent and purposes.

[Sigmar Sich]

Quote

Easy, the gates are springloaded and only kept shut by a huge electromagnet.

This is very inefficient mechanics, with low power efficiency, and low durability, and under constant stress when gates are closed. Though i guess it can have place in the world of big walking warmachines ) (But dont get any ideas, i like battletech)

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

As a note here for the Gun Emplacement fortified gates.

- They are massive and armoured, but I fail to see why they require such a large power generator to operate them.
- Once the inertia is overcome to get them moving, it should be somewhat easy to roll them.
- And just why would that massive generator be exposed and susceptible to Enemy fire in the first place.
(after the first time it was attacked, I would assume the local defenders would locate it well inside the near mountain.)

As a note here; The European Airfield bunkers for 'fast response aircraft' are/were located in blast proof bunkers with multi-ton doors. But they are operated with a small 12volt motor (single12v battery when power failed), and once unlocked and moving can be pushed by a single person. Precise rail tracks and guides. (again these are multi-ton doors.)

I understand it's a gameplay device and needs to be 'able to be damaged' to afford the Attackers a way in, but it's a very ineffective 'thought out solution'. I would have just used the 3 Dropships weapons to blast open one side of the doors as it readies for a deployment, but this requires 'destructible objects' to be enabled and included in the game.
(if you haven't noticed, the DropShips have clear lines of fire at the 2 generators on there approach's. The Ships gunnery officer needs a bit of a kick to wake up and assist the deployment.)

Additional note on gameplay, just what kind of defence establishment has a power loss opening all the 'secured locations' doors? Sounds a bit backward in what the facility is designed for? But exactly what an Attacker would want.
- Just who though that was a good idea?
- Need that hugh door opened with no power, well I've got 12 Mech's handy for just that job. A few even have hands or tow hooks for that task.

Just some thoughts,
Aim True and Run Cool,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 15 December 2014 - 10:25 AM.

[Killstorm999999]

I don't get why destroying a generator causes the gate to open. If anything I would expect destroying the gates power source would make the gate more difficult to open. I feel like this is the kind of stuff that happens when developers/designers are so 'into' a project they cannot step back and think about it objectively.

Well, it is what it is. Ive still been enjoying CW except for the zerg rushes.

[Freeborn Surat]

Brody319, on 14 December 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

Its really only useless against organized light rushes.

what they should do is move the generators outside of the walls. Have the first wave of defense mechs be placed outside. Then those huge paths would be worth something, the enemy would have to defeat the first wave if they wanted to kill the generators.

Yes! Sorry for the comparison but sort of like "rush" from Battlefield maybe? At first defenders are dropped outside their gates; either the first wave of defenders are taken out or the gate is destroyed/opened. Once the gate is breached defenders start dropping inside the base. I'd also like to see more checkpoints for attackers to push through/more checkpoints for defenders to defend. This can be done either in a linear or nonlinear fashion.

Edited by Freeborn Surat, 15 December 2014 - 10:50 AM.

[Freeborn Surat]

Deltron Zero, on 15 December 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

I don't get why destroying a generator causes the gate to open. If anything I would expect destroying the gates power source would make the gate more difficult to open. I feel like this is the kind of stuff that happens when developers/designers are so 'into' a project they cannot step back and think about it objectively.

Well, it is what it is. Ive still been enjoying CW except for the zerg rushes.

Yeah the destroying the generator thing is kind of lame. They should just have to destroy the gates themselves.

[Brody319]

http://mwomercs.com/...ll-suggestions/

[Kirkland Langue]

Brody319, on 14 December 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

Its really only useless against organized light rushes.

what they should do is move the generators outside of the walls. Have the first wave of defense mechs be placed outside. Then those huge paths would be worth something, the enemy would have to defeat the first wave if they wanted to kill the generators.

I completely support this idea. It would ensure that every match had atleast one 12v12 fight. and the winner of this fight would get a clear advantage which would carry over to the future waves of attacks/defenses.

[generalazure]

Just replace the damn gates with a couple of turrets, at least those are useful for something. Or go full medieval and give me a ram...