180 replies to this topic

[Reoh]

I think the double armor was a good idea, from the footage we've seen the fights feel right to me. Beta is for testing various systems and that doesn't make it gauranteed at launch. That's just my opinion though, so going over some of the points about why that's true.

* TT has random hit chance & location. In MWO we'll hit a lot more and can reliably target locations. Perhaps some increase to ammo is warranted but double would be excessive because of how a player can use it more efficiently.

* All weapons have to bust through the extra armor, but the accuracy quotient is the balance to this. Ballistics use their ammo more effectively, energy weapons generate more heat for the same kills. Both are impacted by this.

* Missile weapons still spread and cannot be targeted like others, this is a good point. Double their TT damage to Mechs (explosions should not do increased damage) and we're even again.

[John Hartson]

After reading the last 5 pages I agree that aiming has a huge impact on the effectiveness of a ballistic weapon. Also we don't know how much damage each weapon inflicts.

... but what has been seen cannot be unseen and I think we all saw the leaked beta videos. The hunchback pilot there fired his AC/20 five times (which is half his ammo) at a Catapult and did not do serious damage to it (Every shot was a hit). An Atlas shoots at the same Catapult in close combat. Both the Atlas and the Hunchback have an AC/20 and they don't manage to destroy the Catapult.

How is a single Hunchback supposed to do that with its ten rounds of Ammo?

... to sum things up he gets killed by a Swayback in the end. (Another Variant of the Hunchback that exchanges the AC/20 for more Lasers)

[Ricama]

The bigest problem with armour doubling is the ac 20. Not even the ammo for it but the balance, it is less efficent in terms of weight, space and heat than any other weapon at the same range because it could smash so many locations on so many mechs with one shot. With armour doubling, the Atlas has more than 20 points on every back location and it's possible to survive a headshot from one. With armour doubling the ac 20 becomes just another weapon and as just another weapon it does not stack up well against the competition. Since half the founders mechs mount one, this could become a major sticking point.

[Derek Icelord]

They could also have slapped on extra armor for the purpose of making the gameplay videos so they don't have to restart the match as often. Or maybe they just said, "Hey! What if we..." and did it since it's still closed Beta and balance is still in flux.

[Phasics]

Ricama, on 27 June 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

The bigest problem with armour doubling is the ac 20. Not even the ammo for it but the balance, it is less efficent in terms of weight, space and heat than any other weapon at the same range because it could smash so many locations on so many mechs with one shot. With armour doubling, the Atlas has more than 20 points on every back location and it's possible to survive a headshot from one. With armour doubling the ac 20 becomes just another weapon and as just another weapon it does not stack up well against the competition. Since half the founders mechs mount one, this could become a major sticking point.

They may have already changed its space and weight requirments

[Schtirlitz]

They will change anything they need to make the game playable.
SO let's wait till open beta to see for ourselves.

[Reoh]

Schtirlitz, on 28 June 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

They will change anything they need to make the game playable.
SO let's wait till open beta to see for ourselves.

Really, this. There's some merit to the concern but ultimately the best test is how it plays and if it needs modification we can post up our thoughts on the matter, PGI are no doubt monitoring data from all the games played too. If it needs it, then it'll happen.

[Frankdark]

Guy´s

Keep it a bit down.
They are still working on the balance.

the point is if it needs more shoot´s to take down a enemy mech,
do you need more ammo or not.

in my opinion yes.

[Wolftrap]

I gotta say wait and see. I was one of the lucky ones that got in the closed WoW beta years ago and I'll say straight up the closed beta was completely different from either the open or the offical game. Thats what betas are for to work the kinks out of a new game to find the best balance.

[Ricama]

Reoh, on 28 June 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

Really, this. There's some merit to the concern but ultimately the best test is how it plays and if it needs modification we can post up our thoughts on the matter, PGI are no doubt monitoring data from all the games played too. If it needs it, then it'll happen.

I really hope so, I hope they catch it and I hope they find a way to balance it but not being a beta tester that is all I have: hope. I have seen many things like this that people said "don't worry I'm sure it will be fine" only to find out it's something that was reported and ignored again and again in beta, then in release, then for months after. I am jaded and concerned because my experience has shown that nothing is so obvious that it goes without saying. My sincerest apologies if this is the first of many many games where this is unnecessary but I will continue to bring up any concern I have about gameplay until I am assured it has been addressed.

[Hardac]

So my Atlas will be doubly harder to kill? Sweet.

[Leetskeet]

Haha, this thread looks familiar.

[Phasics]

Leetskeet, on 28 June 2012 - 04:25 AM, said:

Haha, this thread looks familiar.

Another 41 days of pointless speculation, Joy

[Schtirlitz]

Phasics, on 28 June 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

Another 41 days of pointless speculation, Joy

Yep, we can control ourselves, we can... we can?

[AlanEsh]

Schtirlitz, on 28 June 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

Yep, we can control ourselves, we can... we can?

Why try? got something better to do or talk about?

[Skoll Lokeson]

Got this from the (official) Frozen City vid.



The Com-1D carries 200 SRMs for the SRM 6 (which BTW is a weird number for SRM 6 ammo. That's 2.22...t of ammo or 33+ volleys compared to 15 in BT:TT. So unless the 'mech in only carrying 1.5t of armor then the SRM ammo is more than "doubled". It moves at 97 kpms so the engine isn't downgraded. The Com-3A carries 2x100 SRMs which is also more than double compared to BT:TT".

Any thoughts?

Edited by Skoll Lokeson, 28 June 2012 - 01:27 PM.

[Squigles]

Skoll Lokeson, on 28 June 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

Got this from the (official) Frozen City vid.

http://thecrescentha...com-1d-ammo.jpg

The Com-1D carries 200 SRMs for the SRM 6 (which BTW is a weird number for SRM 6 ammo. That's 2.22...t of ammo or 33+ volleys compared to 15 in BT:TT. So unless the 'mech in only carrying 1.5t of armor then the SRM ammo is more than "doubled". It moves at 97 kpms so the engine isn't downgraded. The Com-3A carries 2x100 SRMs which is also more than double compared to BT:TT".

Any thoughts?

If you look at the mechlab video there's only 1 category for LRM ammo, it's not split by launcher type, if I had to guess I'd say they did the same with SRM ammo and it's 100 rounds per ton.

[Skoll Lokeson]

But the 1D only has 1 SRM launcher, the SRM 4 is removed.

[FenixofBria]

/thread

[SparkSovereign]

It might have already fired some of its missiles. Just a thought.