30 replies to this topic

[Blixx]

Night Watch has been using the exact same strategy pwnface. It is incredibly effective and makes a strong defense... We bring two waves of lights followed by a wave of KGC for Omega defense.

[pwnface]

In the CNCI tourney the commentators kept calling our unit NIght's Watch. We were like who the hell is Night's Watch that isn't us. I guess it is you! They should really not get so drunk when commentating.

[pwnface]

I've added a new video which is a great example of how effective this tactic can be.

[riverslq]

not sure CW is going to survive.
there are only so many units, and so many 12 mans.
the pugs will start to abandon ship on cw if they haven't already.
not sure the player population can support this in it's current state.

[Soul Brother]

riverslq, on 30 December 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

not sure CW is going to survive.
there are only so many units, and so many 12 mans.
the pugs will start to abandon ship on cw if they haven't already.
not sure the player population can support this in it's current state.

Simple, bring MWO to steam. Advertise in other valve games, grab a ton of new players. Hopefully some will stick.

[pwnface]

While I agree with you guys, I don't see what this has to do with the tactic.

[Demuder]

pwnface, on 30 December 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

I've added a new video which is a great example of how effective this tactic can be.

I know it will sound like whining, but this is not an "effective" tactic per se, it's capitalizing on a balance gap. I am not talking about hit reg - which is a necessary evil - or the Firestarter's hitboxes, but about the fact that Clans have no answer to this.

They lack the PPFLD ACs, their laser alphas are too hot even on that cold map to effectively use for legging and before you say "SSRM SCR" may I remind you that you can't kill gens with SSRMs. Hell, you can't even open the gate with them. Let alone the problems with countering the ECM from those Spiders with BAP. So no wonder any Clan team would not drop with 12 SSRM - or even 6 SSRM mechs just for the possibility of encountering a light rush. They would be gimping their firepower too much. Maybe SSRMs were useful once for rushes when defending, but with the new generator system they are redundant anyways.

Props for using that STK-4N in the drop though - I suppose it was a lurm boat, that was a nice touch.

[Satan n stuff]

pwnface, on 16 December 2014 - 01:41 AM, said:

2x Gauss is pretty deadly against lights if you can aim. Much more effective than LB10X

Just about anything that is even remotely effective against mechs will work against lights, all you have to do is put it on target.

[L A V A]

Lily from animove, on 15 December 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

soon everyone runs in their precious unhitable lights, until a fix probably appears making them cry rivers.

How about some true tactics not relying on borked game mechanics?

Actually, there is a point of "mech density" in which poor hit registration, rubber banding and warping ensues which I doubt will be resolved anytime soon. This effects everyone, both attacker and defender; assault or light. It's a part of the game which folks who have played in league and tourney play understand.

The reverse Zerg is definitely an excellent tactic. It is more effective on Boreal than Sulfurous Rift because Boreal has only two lanes of approach which are connected via a path through the mountains, while Sulfurous Rift (with it's 3 unconnected lanes of approach) has a much greater possibility of error if you Zerg the wrong gate and attack a faint, for example.

The most important point to be brought home here, that we see in the videos, is that an aggressive, forward defense pays lots of dividends. Notice how after the first wave is finished, the boys continue to press forward into the attackers. It is one of the best ways to defend your base.

Nicely done and excellent videos.

[Demuder]

xLAVAx, on 31 December 2014 - 05:13 AM, said:

Actually, there is a point of "mech density" in which poor hit registration, rubber banding and warping ensues which I doubt will be resolved anytime soon. This effects everyone, both attacker and defender; assault or light. It's a part of the game which folks who have played in league and tourney play understand.

This. You can see it also around Omega when even Assaults sometimes rubberband when everyone piles up around it. The best reverse zerg I've seen was from [-AS-] who managed a constant "deathball" of 10 Firestarters and 2 Spiders. The amount of rubber banding and hit reg/HSR mixup made even scores of SRMs thrown into the flurry "miss".

I am not blaming the players for that, or even taking advantage of that. But it doesn't make for a "good tactic" imho. It's a way to win, but a failing server/gameplay issue is not a "tactic". Unfortunately, the way PGI has setup the game, it's a necessary evil. And I do believe that HSR and server side registration add more to the game than subtract from it.

Frankly, the only way I can see this addressed on some level is giving Clans PPFLD ACs. But that would open a whole new can of worms :-)

[pwnface]

Demuder, on 31 December 2014 - 03:49 AM, said:

I know it will sound like whining, but this is not an "effective" tactic per se, it's capitalizing on a balance gap. I am not talking about hit reg - which is a necessary evil - or the Firestarter's hitboxes, but about the fact that Clans have no answer to this.

They lack the PPFLD ACs, their laser alphas are too hot even on that cold map to effectively use for legging and before you say "SSRM SCR" may I remind you that you can't kill gens with SSRMs. Hell, you can't even open the gate with them. Let alone the problems with countering the ECM from those Spiders with BAP. So no wonder any Clan team would not drop with 12 SSRM - or even 6 SSRM mechs just for the possibility of encountering a light rush. They would be gimping their firepower too much. Maybe SSRMs were useful once for rushes when defending, but with the new generator system they are redundant anyways.

Props for using that STK-4N in the drop though - I suppose it was a lurm boat, that was a nice touch.

Aren't tactics supposed to be about taking advantage of balance gaps? Sending a FS9-A or two to kill a dire is going to be much easier than throwing heavy mechs at it.

This tactic works just as well against an IS attacking team as clan. Most teams that are attacking aren't going to be fielding SSRMs in any notable amount because they are likely expecting to be attacked with long range weaponry. This is precisely why it is an excellent tactic that most opponents will have a hard time dealing with. The clans have an excellent answer to light mechs in SSRM6s boats but typically won't field them as a first wave attacker.

In my experience, this tactic has actually worked much better for us on Sulfurous Rift than Boreal. The approaches to each gate on Sulfurous are much longer and tend to leave enemy forces much more spread out when they are expecting to be safe outside the gates. Sometimes the enemy force will be divided between 2-3 gates as well, leaving a significant portion of their force unable to assist the side that is being swarmed by lights. Light mechs are fast enough that they can kill anyone pushing at alpha gate and drop in behind gamma gate defenders right as they are entering the base.

HSR and hitreg definitely needs to be improved but I don't think it will make this tactic any less effective. We aren't "taking advantage" of a failing server/gameplay issue, the fact that PGI servers can't keep up is secondary to the tactic. Engaging the enemy early, before they are prepared, will usually lead to excellent trades early game.

Edited by pwnface, 31 December 2014 - 10:39 AM.