78 replies to this topic

[Alex Warden]

Jetfire, on 15 December 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

You have to coordinate and leg them.

works on the snow map....thee way from the gates to the gun are long enough to get enough of thm and catch the few who make it...but on the sulfur hellhole? there is nearly no distance between gates and gun... advice would be appreciated...

my idea was to just press them the moment the gates open,but i didnt try it yet...

Edited by Alex Warden, 15 December 2014 - 09:35 PM.

[Nryrony]

I don't think it matters who created this tactic... its simply a lame way to win and works for both sides. Please fix it.

[White Bear 84]

Kassatsu, on 15 December 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

So how do you suggest we fix that besides buffing the generator HP to ridiculous levels making regular matches nearly impossible?

Place the initial defence close to the gates so there is a a faster opportunity to halt rushes?

Add an AA objective that has to be captured first to allow for reinforcements - so there has to be a balance between attackers/defenders going for this objective, the gates and the cannon - i.e. if the defenders capture this first they can slow reinforcements to 45 seconds instead of 30 or something..

Perhaps even start the attacker drops in sequence so do not have all mech drop at once or on the same location!?

Edited by White Bear 84, 15 December 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Alex Warden, on 15 December 2014 - 09:34 PM, said:

works on the snow map....thee way from the gates to the gun are long enough to get enough of thm and catch the few who make it...but on the sulfur hellhole? there is nearly no distance between gates and gun... advice would be appreciated...

my idea was to just press them the moment the gates open,but i didnt try it yet...

You play at the gate. Common mistake against Clans on Sulfur is to play back at Omega. You stop them at the gate. Stand right in their way, physically, make them stack up and eat arty and LRMs.

[IIIuminaughty]

the orbital gun can heal itself over time. this will help. Or add more gates and more choke points

[Mordin Ashe]

Clan rush is stoppable, IS light rush is unstoppable - speed, lagshield, JJs. Clans only have the speed, and even that is less than what IS has.
But yes, this tactics should be stopped. The ammount of time actually spent in base should be increased, either by adding 2 more generators or by making that one generator tougher. all of this was already proposed though, and PGI is working on something to solve the problem as a whole. Hope they will release it soon after NY.

[Alex Warden]

MischiefSC, on 15 December 2014 - 10:53 PM, said:

You play at the gate. Common mistake against Clans on Sulfur is to play back at Omega. You stop them at the gate. Stand right in their way, physically, make them stack up and eat arty and LRMs.

yea figured as much... thanks for confirmation...will try in our next unit drops

[Joe Decker]

Asmudius Heng, on 15 December 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

YEs this - the game need more mid field objectives.

Put some other capture points in the centre you can fight over .... the more you captiure the easier it is to take the main gun but make them optional.

Now you have a range of objectives to defend, attack, recapture and new tactics and movements need to be decided.

This may need rebalancing somehow or it might be overly hard for the attacker mind you - but it creates a more fun game imo than a single objective.

This could actually work. Have an Objective in the Center, a Shield Generator for Example - and if you control that - the Enemy Gun is vulnerable. On the other Side the Defender needs to have the Option to attack the Invaders Landing Area to keep them from getting more Mechs.

Edited by Joe Decker, 16 December 2014 - 12:21 AM.

[Cow And Chicken]

Easy fix but...

This can't be fixed without balancing the game...

No central object needed to fix this. No more quirks needed. No other kind of dumb addons needed to
make things more complicated. Just keep it simple and fix the balance?

The game will suffer till that is fixed....

[-Natural Selection-]

Everyone has the ability to have lights with JJs. Use them, get your info before they are on top of you. Those walls are to help keep them out, not you in.

[crustydog]

How about change the objective?

Capture the gun instead of destroying it.

You capture by destroying the defenders.

You defend by destroying the attackers.

Big mech on mech battle

The way we like it.

[TheCaptainJZ]

mines

[MischiefSC]

crustydog, on 16 December 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

How about change the objective?

Capture the gun instead of destroying it.

You capture by destroying the defenders.

You defend by destroying the attackers.

Big mech on mech battle

The way we like it.

So, just get rid of Invasion mode and make CW pure skirmish matches?

[Gooner]

I played 2 matches yesterday, 1 on each map, on defense. My team absolutely destroyed the attackers in kills, something like 30-10 and 40-15 ... but we lost because they were just making suicide runs on the base.

Didn't feel like the best team won, left a sour taste in my mouth.

[Thorqemada]

Saw a Twitch were IS vs IS defended the Generator with King Crabs + Gauss - must have been 8 of them all with Gauss - they killed the enemy IS Lights when they arrived at the Generator pretty quick and it went not down below 50%.

But really - that is very boring!

Clans can Dual Gauss too...

Edited by Thorqemada, 16 December 2014 - 02:48 AM.

[Oddthetall]

I have been pugging or dropping in a two man since for all my community warfare matches. If you are fighting clans, you just have to coordinate. The 'Crow Rush is totally stoppable - you just need to be coordinated. Scouts on the gates in Caustic, and a layered defence on the snow map. Leg them as they come through the gates then finish them off later. Honestly, I don't see what the problem is.

[crustydog]

Oddthetall, on 16 December 2014 - 02:56 AM, said:

Honestly, I don't see what the problem is.

The "problem," I guess, is that as wonderfull as CW is - especially the drop 4 mechs in a row major battle aspect - is precisly that the major battle really doesn't take place - there is no test of skill for the pilots - one side rushes the gen - sometimes they make it sometimes they don't - while the other side engages in target practice against moving targets that don't have the time to fight back.

Boring - and boring is about the worst possible outcome.

It is not a pilot vrs pilot major fight - I see no real skill involved by either side as a factor. Follow the tactics as described, and you will sometimes win. You are unlikely to win any other way (so far.)

Gooner, on 16 December 2014 - 02:29 AM, said:

... but we lost because they were just making suicide runs on the base.

Didn't feel like the best team won, left a sour taste in my mouth.

This is exactly the kind of reaction we want to avoid - where is the action - the sense of real achievement? Where does your actual individual skill even come into this?

MischiefSC, on 16 December 2014 - 02:23 AM, said:

So, just get rid of Invasion mode and make CW pure skirmish matches?

Well, I am not sure - but in a skirmish it is player vrs player, - My Merc team tells me not to launch groups in certain game modes, or the users freak out - so I know the desire to fight is high among the player base - or perhaps it also has to do with the scoring....



If I sound a little uncertain as to what to say, it is perhaps because I am - what I really want to say is don't lose the great stuff from CW - keep the maps (and make more) - keep the drop decks (and make more) - but redesign these scenarios ( and add more ) in such a way that returns the match to a contest between the teams based on skill and fighting outcomes.


This gun would just be bombed by aerospace fighters or arty, rather than throw away an entire battalion of mechs if destroying it was all that mattered.

[Roadbuster]

mrripley9, on 15 December 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

We focused our fire on mechs, and and tried to stop them, but they didn't even pay attention to us, the turrets, or anything at all. They just went straight for the generator, and completely obliterated it before we could do anything.

The problem is that this is the only viable tactic to destroy the generator.
Without a massive push, you're not going to get through, because the defenders drop right on top of you while the dropships shoot at you too.
The only other chance would be to destroy all defenders, so they can't drop anymore. But this won't happen because the defenders won't push out, and trying to destroy them at the base is not going to work because they drop right into the battle and the attackers have to run all the way over the map.

Imho, the defender drop points should be further away, or the time delay between drops should be doubled (60s instead of 30s), while the generator hitpoints should be buffed a bit.

[Driftwoood]

Mickey Knoxx, on 16 December 2014 - 01:00 AM, said:

Everyone has the ability to have lights with JJs. Use them, get your info before they are on top of you. Those walls are to help keep them out, not you in.

^^ This... I had issues with rushers before, but have now had some successful defense games... and this is key... you have to engage them well before objective, yet not so far that you can't get back...

If you're in an assault mech and can't get back, maybe you have to eject and pick a faster mech... you'll spawn at base and dropship will help with lights... (though I'm not a fan of this eject loophole, it seems like it would be effective against a light rush...)

Edited by Driftwoood, 17 December 2014 - 01:48 AM.

[MischiefSC]

I've seen an idea I really like - 3 objectives. 2 smaller objectives, 1 major. Fuel depots, ammo depot. You need to nail 1 minor plus the major objective, 2 minors gives attackers a big bonus. Defenders get a bigger bonus for each minor objective protected.

Move the dropship landings away from Omega. Perhaps have them spread out among the 3 relatively spread out objectives - this means sometimes the Dropship puts you wher eyou need to be... sometimes it doesn't.

On Sulfur, move Omega back some too.