6 replies to this topic

[Vandril]

So I've been reading on the forums and it bothers me all the doomsaying about CW, and the flipant "it's Beta" response. There have been some solid ideas out there to make it better, and I wanted to flesh them out into one system. Take credit if you see a part I stole and if you can improve on it... POST. If I have some details wrong, it probably doesn't hurt the solution but note it. Not trying to be 100% accurate.

Problems:

• Planet flips at the same time everyday marginalizing non-North American players.
  
  • Right now there is a 6 hr window with a 30-40 minute ceasefire. Planet, flips after the ceasefire around 11pm CST - prime time for a lot of people, work/sleep time for the rest of the world.
    
  • Potential solutions:
    
    • Extend the time it takes to flip worlds. Change the cycle so that it is 29 hrs or 34 or even 14, something odd so there is always a different TZ that gets in on the final action.
      
    • Change the points. Simply tally the number of victories for both sides at the end of each ceasefire, and they win 20% of the planet. There is a window available for every part of the world to make a difference then. Also, would need to change the timers a bit so that there were five attack/defend phases per day rather than four.
• Ghost Drops
  
  • Coming from one of the least populous factions, we've been losing world after world because of this. Still there needs to be an ADVANTAGE to having superior numbers. This needs to be balanced with the fun aspect.
    
    • Potential solutions:
      
      • Limited Ghost drops per planet per person
        
        • Example, my PUG group or 12 man drops on planet X with no defenders as most Mariks are asleep. Suddenly we realize we can just run up the score. After Y number of drops, say two or three under the current system, we have to select a different world to munch until the next ceasefire.
          
        • This is my second least favorite option since it really punishes players, but needed to be put out there. Plus it ignores the role-playing aspect of the game.
      • Ghost drops mean less.
        
        • Each ghost drop is worth 1/10 of a victory. Congrats, your unit has rolled an undefended abandoned decoy, but still controls part of the planet.
      • Eliminate Ghost Drops entirely
        
        • This is my least favorite option because it restricts CW unnaturally. Not every planet can or will be defended.
      • Increase the value of contested fights.
        
        • That rousing defense where your unit has smashed 48 mechs and only lost 13 IS epic, and should be rewarded. Now your <insert faction here> can move/devote other mechs (those you didn't use at that drop zone) to other fights across the planet where they are needed.
• ZERG!!!
  
  • Yes, I use this tactic but there needs to be added complexity to invasion. I'd like there to be a point to destroying the defenders en mass.
    
    • Only the generator matters....
      
      • create two or three other objectives, NOT near the generator that requires some teamwork to eliminate. No the gates don't count since those are just barriers to get everyone into position on the map.
        
      • Increase the HP of the Generator
        
        • I'm very skeptical of this being a great solution since it virtually eliminates solo heroics that happen when your team creates a diversion. My unit has done some very different feints to achieve victory by getting just one or two of us to the generator.
      • Improve the shielding around the generator.
        
        • This eliminates some of the firing lanes in the match, making the generator harder to get at, and thus quickly destroy.
      • Repair the gates!
        
        • Allow the defenders to get back to the gates and repair the generator. Maybe turrets as well...
      • Increase the number and buff turrets.
        
        • Honestly they are pretty scary now.

And with that said, I don't think any of these solutions are mutually exclusive.. A combination of ideas would work.

[Orkdung]

To expand upon this I'd like to see in future phases or lore/fluff driven mechanisms to help Community Warfare.

• C-bills used to purchase passage to planets (X cbills gets you so far on a Jumpship Your unit is base at X planet you can only go so many light years on so much cash; a sure way to slow an advance) This would help with unit planning and Strategy. You cant be everywhere (I understand that some Houses and Clans have few units)
  
• C-bills get you infantry (SRM/LRM) and tank units to station in garrison on a planet to bolster defenses. Your unit can purchase and place, they act like turrets but move.
  
• Repair gates is mentioned above, but what about a Refitting station. A mech could spend 30 seconds in a refitting station and gain back 50% armor/ammo.
  
• Obviously contracts are generic right now, but one way to stem the tide of Houses (*cough* larger Houses), is contracts for Pirates (merc/lone wolves). A House generates Cbills as a whole and individuals may go and vote once every 24 hours how the cash is spent... Example: Liao produces 24 million Cbills, a Vote is up to harass Davion, harass Marik or Defend a planet for 24 hours. Liao players vote to harass Davion. A Merc unit of 12 pilots excepts the contract and then harass Davion from the periphery stealing resources or weakening a planet rather than along the major battle fronts (fluffwise they're stealing, in game they are hurting numbers). Stealing resources reduces rewards throughout the House for 24 hours. (70 Loyalty/75,000 Cbills now turns to 60 Loyalty and 60,000 Cbills as the House population is unhappy with the Lord and his Mechwarriors for failing to protect from Pirate incursions), and gives the Mercs/Lonewolves incentive to fight along the periphery while maintaining a backwater feel, for each victory they get +500,000 Cbills for the unit. Fighting back the pirates (removing 12 players from attacking along a major front, and pulling them periphery side) and winning as House Davion gives them a slight boost, so instead of 70 Loyalty they get 71 Loyalty and 76000...and maybe it stacks per 10 incursions what-have-you, capping out at 100 Loyalty 100,000 for the House in a 24 hour period. Cooling off back to original numbers of 70 Loyalty/ 75,000 Cbills when fighting other Houses/Clans for planets.

[Pit]

Bump

[Gorgo7]

Bump

[Killstorm999999]

The victory condition should be more elaborate then just destroying a single objective. Although I don't think we need Repair and Rearm, we still should not be encouraging suicide tactics, which is what we get when 'victory' is achieved by meeting this one condition.

One thing I don't really understand is the whole 'gate' mechanic.
1) Destroying the generator causes the gate to open? What?
2) Accepting the fact that destroying the generator causes the gate to open, why is the generator placed right next to gate?
3) Why is there a ramp that allows the attackers to shoot at the generator? I would think the defenders would have eliminated that while building the base.
4) Why is there no defensive position for the defender to use to shoot at the attackers while they are advancing on the choke point?

Literally nothing about this base makes any logical sense.

As far as the map designs are concerned:
1) So much wasted space. There are kilometers of empty dead map space for the attackers to trudge threw before they even reach the base. What is the point of all this space?

2) On Sulfurous Rift, the defenders drop right on top of the attackers. Their spawn point should be further away

In General:
1) Make the maps slightly larger and rounder. Enough with the choke points already! (The map should spread out as you get away from the spawn points, not constrict). Get rid of the coke points. Give the defenders some defensible spawn position, and that's it. Design the rest of the map like a 'real' place.

2) Multiple objectives. The attackers should have to complete multiple objectives. Some involve destruction, others involve capture. The nice thing about 'capture' objectives is that you have to actually fight the defenders instead of just ignoring them.

Edited by Deltron Zero, 16 December 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[Darwins Dog]

I think that the increased contract rewards will help with the ghost drops, but it will depend on how many mercs vs. loyalists are out there. Decreasing the value of ghost drops may hurt the people trying to hold out against really good units. Right now they can swarm the planets that are getting attacked and while the attackers are winning against one team, two more can be taking away their progress. It seems like a good idea, but I would rather see them count closer to 1/2 than 1/10 (small adjustments to start).

Your idea about planet flips is good. Just say that MWO is using the galactic standard day of 27 hours (or whatever the decided time is).

As for stopping the Zerg, I have a few thoughts.

• It is a valid tactic, and I don't like to see tactics being limited. That said, I think that most people came here to play robots that fight each other, so we should find a way to encourage that.
  
• At some point the attackers have to push in and attack the generator in order to win. A fight of attrition will heavily favor the defenders.
  
• Changing the geometry to restrict attack angles seems like an okay idea, but most rushes are going straight behind the thing, so that might not help.
  
• Remember that things like increasing the generator HP or making multiple objectives will slow rushes, but they will also make other strategies more difficult. You run the risk of nerfing attacking for everyone, just to stop one tactic.

Here's my idea:

• Give the generator a damage reduction tied to the number of remaining defenders.
  
• My initial thought is 1% per defender to make it 48% reduction when all defenders are standing.
  
• This will require the attackers to engage the defenders first to lower the damage reduction before they can reasonably take out the generator.
  
• A light rush on second or third wave will still be a threat, if the attackers have done well in the initial fighting, but it won't work as an opening move.
  
• It's a bit space magic (I know some people don't like that), but you can give it a fluff reason like it's an energy shield drawing power from the defending mechs. My goal with this idea is to increase the amount of fighting (thus rewards, cbills, XP, LP) for everyone while not reducing anyone's chances to win.

I don't like the idea of repair stations for balance. If the defenders can get back armor and ammo between waves, then the attackers will be forced into rush tactics even more.


I would also like to see more than just invasion for CW. More maps and more modes are always a good thing IMO.

EDIT: Thanks for starting the thread. Here's hoping we get a lot of good discussion and ideas from it.

Edited by Darwins Dog, 16 December 2014 - 07:48 AM.

[Vandril]

Darwins Dog, on 16 December 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

I think that the increased contract rewards will help with the ghost drops, but it will depend on how many mercs vs. loyalists are out there. Decreasing the value of ghost drops may hurt the people trying to hold out against really good units. Right now they can swarm the planets that are getting attacked and while the attackers are winning against one team, two more can be taking away their progress. It seems like a good idea, but I would rather see them count closer to 1/2 than 1/10 (small adjustments to start).

Your idea about planet flips is good. Just say that MWO is using the galactic standard day of 27 hours (or whatever the decided time is).

As for stopping the Zerg, I have a few thoughts.

• It is a valid tactic, and I don't like to see tactics being limited. That said, I think that most people came here to play robots that fight each other, so we should find a way to encourage that.
  
• At some point the attackers have to push in and attack the generator in order to win. A fight of attrition will heavily favor the defenders.
  
• Changing the geometry to restrict attack angles seems like an okay idea, but most rushes are going straight behind the thing, so that might not help.
  
• Remember that things like increasing the generator HP or making multiple objectives will slow rushes, but they will also make other strategies more difficult. You run the risk of nerfing attacking for everyone, just to stop one tactic.

Here's my idea:

• Give the generator a damage reduction tied to the number of remaining defenders.
  
• My initial thought is 1% per defender to make it 48% reduction when all defenders are standing.
  
• This will require the attackers to engage the defenders first to lower the damage reduction before they can reasonably take out the generator.
  
• A light rush on second or third wave will still be a threat, if the attackers have done well in the initial fighting, but it won't work as an opening move.
  
• It's a bit space magic (I know some people don't like that), but you can give it a fluff reason like it's an energy shield drawing power from the defending mechs. My goal with this idea is to increase the amount of fighting (thus rewards, cbills, XP, LP) for everyone while not reducing anyone's chances to win.

I don't like the idea of repair stations for balance. If the defenders can get back armor and ammo between waves, then the attackers will be forced into rush tactics even more.



I would also like to see more than just invasion for CW. More maps and more modes are always a good thing IMO.

EDIT: Thanks for starting the thread. Here's hoping we get a lot of good discussion and ideas from it.

Agreed about the rush, I don't want to see it simply cease to exist. It is a valid tactic, just can't be the only one. Other attempts work, but the zerg rush is ridiculously effective.

I like the idea of some sort of damage resistance on the generator. That could be tied to the multiple objectives. You can still rush but unless you teardown the shields or whatever it'll be really hard.

I'm sure there will be more modes coming, I've seen some really good ideas about smaller groups. Thanks for adding!!