41 replies to this topic

[Jun Watarase]

Some of you may remember when there was only one game mode which was assault and it had no turrets. Some players found out that it was very easy to win if you simply took 4 lights and rushed the cap point, since you could easily fully cap it before any significant forces returned in time to stop you.

Of course those players also found out that winning this way didn't really give you any rewards since most of the rewards are from doing damage and getting kills.

Same thing here. Best way to win in invasion : rush objective and kill it. However this gives you very little rewards, mainly because the contract payout is so little. Meanwhile winning by wiping out the other side can get you 1k+ LP easily.

The imbalance needs to be corrected.

[RF Greywolf]

Always remember: In Invasion mode, the attackers can only win by destroying the objective. Even if they kill every defender they still won't win until the objective is destroyed before the timer runs out. So you could wipe out the defenders, yet still lose the game. I actually saw that happen once. The last defender played it smart and legged the last remaining attackers so they didn't have enough speed to reach the gun and destroy it.

[deadmedo]

I did notice that yesterday. In a few matches when we tried as a team to rush and destroy the cannon. Mostly we did win, sometimes we didnt. Each of these games had at least 2, usually 3 waves, which means 2-3 mechs were used and I earned around 300-450 LP. The usual LP rewards when I go for damage and kills is around 1k (but you very probably can't win that match, unless you're defending). So, it seems, as an attacking team, you have to choose whether you want to win or to grind LP.

EDIT:

I did have one match where the attackers (12 man unit group) killed every defender (12 pugs) and were able to destroy the cannon. That's the best possible outcome for the attackers

Edited by deadmedo, 16 December 2014 - 04:52 AM.

[RustyBolts]

Well what are the displayed objectives on the loading screen? Does it say kill all defenders prior to assaulting the objective or does it say destroy the objective?

[Savage Wolf]

It does seem like rewards needs to be tweaked so that you are actually rewarded appropiately for playing attacker is intended. I actually like that we now have a mode where it's the objective or nothing, but just like with Conquest prior to rewards 2.0, you are not rewarded for it. So that is definately something that needs to be fixed.

[Darwins Dog]

Savage Wolf, on 16 December 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

It does seem like rewards needs to be tweaked so that you are actually rewarded appropiately for playing attacker is intended. I actually like that we now have a mode where it's the objective or nothing, but just like with Conquest prior to rewards 2.0, you are not rewarded for it. So that is definately something that needs to be fixed.

This runs into the problem of different definitions of "playing as intended". For some that would mean greater rewards for destroying the generator (thus encouraging more rush tactics). For others that would mean encouraging more fighting. Myself, I tend to lean towards the more fighting camp. I love objective based scenarios, but I want to fight other mechs to accomplish those objectives.

[Almond Brown]

Perhaps a hybrid system. Payout for a Generator based Win is scaled against how many Defenders remain. So Rush in, kill the Genny and 40 defender Mechs remain, you get generally SFA.

Or don't rush in, eventually kill the Genny with only 9 Defender Mechs remaining, you get a decent payout. The scale would run from 47-0 for defenders. Less defenders = more payout. (plus damage kills etc etc....

[Joseph Mallan]

Almond Brown, on 16 December 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

Perhaps a hybrid system. Payout for a Generator based Win is scaled against how many Defenders remain. So Rush in, kill the Genny and 40 defender Mechs remain, you get generally SFA.

Or don't rush in, eventually kill the Genny with only 9 Defender Mechs remaining, you get a decent payout. The scale would run from 47-0 for defenders. Less defenders = more payout. (plus damage kills etc etc....

Yes cause killing the enemy is always the best option.

Also since when has fulfilling the objective become the wrong way to play a game? How narrow minded have we become that killing is the favorite objective?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 16 December 2014 - 10:53 AM.

[Mystere]

And which is why my words are as relevant now as they were then:

Defend your base!

Edited by Mystere, 16 December 2014 - 10:56 AM.

[Revis Volek]

There is only one way to win and that is the destroy Omega and complete the objective.


All others obstacles are just that on the way to Omega, leg em and leave em.

Edited by DarthRevis, 16 December 2014 - 10:58 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 December 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Yes cause killing the enemy is always the best option.

Also since when has fulfilling the objective become the wrong way to play a game? How narrow minded have we become that killing is the favorite objective?

One could give a **** about the Zerg rush for a win really. What it really does is Kill personal coffer fund generation. You know those things you can BUY stuff with. And sadly, not every "Team" that gets assembled to Defend in CW can just Stop the Zerg Rush with ease. If they could, there would be no point to the Zerg rushes, but as we all know they continue to happen.

The attacker can win anyways they want, but when it affects the C-Bills "everyone" needs to operate, then as we have seen with the supposed "Market Crash of 3050" folks will become bitter. Bitter players in any Game is always bad. Very BAD...

Edited by Almond Brown, 16 December 2014 - 12:11 PM.

[Almond Brown]

DarthRevis, on 16 December 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

There is only one way to win and that is the destroy Omega and complete the objective.

All others obstacles are just that on the way to Omega, leg em and leave em.

So why did PGI leave in methods to generate C-Bills. Who needs C-Bills right? Just Wins is all CW requires. Take out those methods to generate C-Bill as they are pointless and everyone can play PUG to get them and the **** they buy.

Then they can come back to CW after they bought what they need to WIN and WIN some more.

Not everyone has 40,000,000,000 C-Bills banked for CW based "Leg and Leave em" game play.

Edited by Almond Brown, 16 December 2014 - 12:20 PM.

[Intrepid]

Jun Watarase, on 16 December 2014 - 03:39 AM, said:

Some of you may remember when

You would deliberately disconnect in order to avoid being killed?
You would come to the forums and whine about how poorly you played?
You would complain about losing because you did not play to win?

Welcome back. Glad to see you are up to your old tricks.

[Revis Volek]

Almond Brown, on 16 December 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

So why did PGI leave in methods to generate C-Bills. Who needs C-Bills right? Just Wins is all CW requires. Take out those methods to generate C-Bill as they are pointless and everyone can play PUG to get them and the **** they buy.

Then they can come back to CW after they bought what they need to WIN and WIN some more.

Not everyone has 40,000,000,000 C-Bills banked for CW based "Leg and Leave em" game play.

I suppose you also try to level mechs in CW as well huh?

CW isn't about the cbills for me or a lot of other players because we are taking fully mastered mechs fully kitted out with Modules and all that end game stuff. Dont get me wrong, its great when you get 750,000 for one 20 minute match but its not really what i play for. I play to have SA on the back of every damn planet in the IS! Not to mention YOU CANT USE THE COFFER MONEY YET?!?! So what are we complaining about?

You know what BETA means right? Instead of making complaints and whining about it like your 12 why dont you formulate something coherent and relevant. List the reason why you dislike the current implementation and some way to fix it.

Make a venn diagram, spreadsheet, anything! But sitting here crying about it doesn't do any good nor will trying to make the generator harder to destroy any easier for you all that already ave issues. If you cant successfully attack and defend with the current mechanics then you need to improve your SKILLS not change the game itself.

The game doesn't always have to cater to the worst PUG.

Edited by DarthRevis, 16 December 2014 - 12:49 PM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Farm c-bills and xp for 3 waves.
Destroy Cannon on wave 4.
Prosper.

[ContingencyPlan]

Legging/sticking the enemy team, regardless of which side you're on, is the way to win. These matches are not fought to the death.


They are fought to the pain.

[Roadbeer]

So, it's working as intended?

Thanks for the update.

[James Montana]

Landmines would curtail this. I remember playing Battletech: Crescent Hawk's Inception, and in the guide there was an illustration about vibramines. You know, if there were minefields that could be deployed on the battlefield they could curtail the light rush.

[ContingencyPlan]

Almond Brown, on 16 December 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

So why did PGI leave in methods to generate C-Bills. Who needs C-Bills right? Just Wins is all CW requires. Take out those methods to generate C-Bill as they are pointless and everyone can play PUG to get them and the **** they buy.

Then they can come back to CW after they bought what they need to WIN and WIN some more.

Not everyone has 40,000,000,000 C-Bills banked for CW based "Leg and Leave em" game play.

I find that CW is a rather good way to generate c-bills. Mech specific XP on the other hand is a different matter. If I want to level a specific mech I'll pug it, not take it to CW.

[Mystere]

DarthRevis, on 16 December 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

I suppose you also try to level mechs in CW as well huh?

Well, yes. And I even did it last night while helping your Clan take over an enemy base.

DarthRevis, on 16 December 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

CW isn't about the cbills for me or a lot of other players ...

Please tell that to 8 of your CBI buddies who were more interested in earning c-bills than winning in that very same fight. Us 4 puggers in the team were the ones actually issuing instructions on how to win.

Thank Hades we won.

Edited by Mystere, 16 December 2014 - 01:28 PM.