Hi guys!
Is there a guide or list somewhere in the Internet, where I could easily check out which Mechs have missile bay doors?
I'm asking this since I accidentally noticed the Golden Boy having bay doors in chest. I kept wondering why the SRM 4s in the chest had a bit of a lag when compared to the ones in arm.
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Mechs With Missile Bay Doors
Started by Blackloch, Dec 16 2014 04:48 AM
16 replies to this topic
#2
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- Bad Company
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 04:52 AM
Smurfy lists this as well as other things*
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
*four gray box icon on the part that has them. Still extremely POed they removed from cent.
But as far as your GB leave them closed, the damage reduction is significant and as that is for your CT it is just awesome.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
*four gray box icon on the part that has them. Still extremely POed they removed from cent.
But as far as your GB leave them closed, the damage reduction is significant and as that is for your CT it is just awesome.
Edited by Chagatay, 16 December 2014 - 04:53 AM.
#3
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- The Money Maker
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 09:59 AM
Chagatay, on 16 December 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:
Smurfy lists this as well as other things*
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
*four gray box icon on the part that has them. Still extremely POed they removed from cent.
But as far as your GB leave them closed, the damage reduction is significant and as that is for your CT it is just awesome.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
*four gray box icon on the part that has them. Still extremely POed they removed from cent.
But as far as your GB leave them closed, the damage reduction is significant and as that is for your CT it is just awesome.
Thanks a lot! Been using Smurfy alot but never really noticed the boxes.
#4
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- Urban Commando
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 10:26 AM
Yeah I kinda wish there was an exception to the delay when you use narc. Kintaros are suppose to be the Narc Mech.
"Introduced in 2587 for the SLDF, the Kintaro was designed with one sole mission: tagging enemy units with a Narc Missile Beacon." --Sarna http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kintaro
They really ought to give it narc quirks that override the delay maybe even give it range/cool/velocity/duration narc quirks.
"Introduced in 2587 for the SLDF, the Kintaro was designed with one sole mission: tagging enemy units with a Narc Missile Beacon." --Sarna http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kintaro
They really ought to give it narc quirks that override the delay maybe even give it range/cool/velocity/duration narc quirks.
Edited by Utilyan, 16 December 2014 - 10:26 AM.
#5
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 10:29 AM
If SRM would now work like supposed and hit narced Mechs they would be beastly...the IS would have something like clumsy Clan-SSRM6 with a way to short range 
Edited by Thorqemada, 16 December 2014 - 05:39 PM.
#6
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 10:30 AM
Even in 3049, the prevalance of the Windows™ logo was know to cause delays on use.
Funny, I never noticed those darned little boxes before on Smurfy.
Funny, I never noticed those darned little boxes before on Smurfy.
Edited by Vandul, 16 December 2014 - 10:34 AM.
#7
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 10:43 AM
They should really just remove them from all mechs (or at least make it instantaneous to fire like the King Crab claws), as interesting a feature as it was it was not documented well and new players are the ones who got the short end of that stick every time.
Edited by CapperDeluxe, 16 December 2014 - 10:43 AM.
#8
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 11:55 AM
In counter point to this view, there are quite a few who would like to see more missile bay doors in game. a balance between the instant fire of open bay doors and the added defense of areas that had these door was part of what differentiated mechs and made their playstyles vary from similar chassis without missile bay doors. For examples, the ballistic wolverine, with or without considerations of jump jets, could be seen as a 5 ton heavier centurion with less zombie power (one energy slot in head vs 2 in ct) - but piloting the centurion had a lot of subtlety that the wolverine lacked, because of those missile doors, not even considering the newer "shield arm" of the centurion. This was because the centurion left torso had issiles and hence, missile doors that when closed gave a 15% damage reduction to the centurion left torso.
If you ran your centurion with missiles, your decision of keeping bay door open or closed had real repurcussions, because of how damage transfers and reduces in MWO. If you left those bays open for hassle free missile fire, without a half second delay in firing that took real skill to compensate for, then you had a decrease in survivability because that 15% was considerable. Say that shield arm ended up being the target of a ppfld triple gauss shot, or the dreaded 5ppc stalker. The 45-50 point alpha would still vaporise the arm, but the remaining damage transferring into the side torso would be reduced by 50% due to normal damage transfer rules, then another 15% if those doors were closed. Lets say then that that side torso (left) was destroyed also, but you were running the centurion with standard engine for maximum zombie potential. The centurions shoulder socket remaing from a destroyed arm, plus its left side destroyed torso could mean another hit that you managed to catch on the remaining arm stub scraps could be reduced from the aforementioned 50 point alpha, to 25 points that was passed to the destroyed side torso, which then would reduce to 21 due to the 15% reduction from bay doors, then be reduced by half again as the damage transferred to the center torso, for only 10.5 damage out of a 50 alpha.
centurion pilots relied upon this sort of thing to keep their mechs zombie tanking, making decisions on facing, weapons loadout and the open/shut choice to stay alive, because this was an intentional design choice, not an exploit or cheat. As numbers showed, it wasnt alot of extra points stopped from the doors, but they were a part of the zombie shielding equation that you simply did not have on a wolverine or a shadowhawk or a trebuchet. While the shield arm quirks giving 16 armor to the centurion left arm are great, they do not replicate the original play and method, as once that arm is gone there is no lobger any functionality to using the side torso and shoulder socket as a shield the way we once did for zombie play.
That, in my book is a homogenization, a loss of distinctiveness for the centurion. I think in other mechs too, bay doors could have added distinctiveness and greater subtlety to playstyles, but in many cases the only mechs that retain bay doors with their damage reduction are such as the catapults and some stalkers (and GB) where the damage reduction is in areas like arms rather than side torsos, making them of little to no use in tactical applications. These mechs seem to have been much better served byadding additional armor and structure to these locations by recent quirks, which makes me wondet if they are about to remove damage reduction of bays completely.
Incidentally, I for one would have welcomed a firing delay on the King Crab arms when the internal ballistics (not the inside wrist mounted on the Kgc-000) weapons are fired, giving the pilot the choice of an actual 15% damage reduction, vs. no firing delay on first shots fired, then auto closing of bays after x seconds of no additional fire. In so far as I can see, there is no damage reduction to the crab claws and they are not actually missile bay doors in the same sense as those seen previously in the game.
EDIT: Regarding the correction about damage resistance, whether 10% or 15%, I didn't recall precisely, however it does offer the DR to the armor of the part, not just "internal components" as implied by others. This has been tested and verified in much earlier builds of the game and if it has changed, it is only because of more recent programming changes, perhaps as they have been seeking sources of inaccurate registry of damage, etc.
As others pointed out, for an example, if you had 4 ppcs and were firing on a 40 point armored arm that had damage reduction, you did not completely strip the armor of that arm, meaning that rather than having caused 40 points of ppfld damage on that arm, it had been reduced by the damage reduction number %. I had previously believed it to be something like 15% because it seemed in for example the situation of 40 point arms being hit in testing with 40 points of damage, it seemed like there were more like 5-6 points remaining on that arm, rather than only 4 points remaining after the 40 point ppc shot on a damage reductioned catapult arm with closed bay door.
Firing on these same bay doors closed arms after they were damaged by the PPC shots, with a machine gun at its normal dps also seemed to confirm this based on the time until it seemed breach of armor was registered. This all was tested in private matches a ways back, but again, there is some level of inaccuracy apparently, because since then, some have said that machine guns were not actually doing thier full dps at the time we tested, so again there was some room for uncertainty and there being even more armor left on those locations ... hence why 15% was supposed as the damage reduction numbers back then. Sure, could have been 10% all along.
If you ran your centurion with missiles, your decision of keeping bay door open or closed had real repurcussions, because of how damage transfers and reduces in MWO. If you left those bays open for hassle free missile fire, without a half second delay in firing that took real skill to compensate for, then you had a decrease in survivability because that 15% was considerable. Say that shield arm ended up being the target of a ppfld triple gauss shot, or the dreaded 5ppc stalker. The 45-50 point alpha would still vaporise the arm, but the remaining damage transferring into the side torso would be reduced by 50% due to normal damage transfer rules, then another 15% if those doors were closed. Lets say then that that side torso (left) was destroyed also, but you were running the centurion with standard engine for maximum zombie potential. The centurions shoulder socket remaing from a destroyed arm, plus its left side destroyed torso could mean another hit that you managed to catch on the remaining arm stub scraps could be reduced from the aforementioned 50 point alpha, to 25 points that was passed to the destroyed side torso, which then would reduce to 21 due to the 15% reduction from bay doors, then be reduced by half again as the damage transferred to the center torso, for only 10.5 damage out of a 50 alpha.
centurion pilots relied upon this sort of thing to keep their mechs zombie tanking, making decisions on facing, weapons loadout and the open/shut choice to stay alive, because this was an intentional design choice, not an exploit or cheat. As numbers showed, it wasnt alot of extra points stopped from the doors, but they were a part of the zombie shielding equation that you simply did not have on a wolverine or a shadowhawk or a trebuchet. While the shield arm quirks giving 16 armor to the centurion left arm are great, they do not replicate the original play and method, as once that arm is gone there is no lobger any functionality to using the side torso and shoulder socket as a shield the way we once did for zombie play.
That, in my book is a homogenization, a loss of distinctiveness for the centurion. I think in other mechs too, bay doors could have added distinctiveness and greater subtlety to playstyles, but in many cases the only mechs that retain bay doors with their damage reduction are such as the catapults and some stalkers (and GB) where the damage reduction is in areas like arms rather than side torsos, making them of little to no use in tactical applications. These mechs seem to have been much better served byadding additional armor and structure to these locations by recent quirks, which makes me wondet if they are about to remove damage reduction of bays completely.
Incidentally, I for one would have welcomed a firing delay on the King Crab arms when the internal ballistics (not the inside wrist mounted on the Kgc-000) weapons are fired, giving the pilot the choice of an actual 15% damage reduction, vs. no firing delay on first shots fired, then auto closing of bays after x seconds of no additional fire. In so far as I can see, there is no damage reduction to the crab claws and they are not actually missile bay doors in the same sense as those seen previously in the game.
EDIT: Regarding the correction about damage resistance, whether 10% or 15%, I didn't recall precisely, however it does offer the DR to the armor of the part, not just "internal components" as implied by others. This has been tested and verified in much earlier builds of the game and if it has changed, it is only because of more recent programming changes, perhaps as they have been seeking sources of inaccurate registry of damage, etc.
As others pointed out, for an example, if you had 4 ppcs and were firing on a 40 point armored arm that had damage reduction, you did not completely strip the armor of that arm, meaning that rather than having caused 40 points of ppfld damage on that arm, it had been reduced by the damage reduction number %. I had previously believed it to be something like 15% because it seemed in for example the situation of 40 point arms being hit in testing with 40 points of damage, it seemed like there were more like 5-6 points remaining on that arm, rather than only 4 points remaining after the 40 point ppc shot on a damage reductioned catapult arm with closed bay door.
Firing on these same bay doors closed arms after they were damaged by the PPC shots, with a machine gun at its normal dps also seemed to confirm this based on the time until it seemed breach of armor was registered. This all was tested in private matches a ways back, but again, there is some level of inaccuracy apparently, because since then, some have said that machine guns were not actually doing thier full dps at the time we tested, so again there was some room for uncertainty and there being even more armor left on those locations ... hence why 15% was supposed as the damage reduction numbers back then. Sure, could have been 10% all along.
Edited by Mad Porthos, 18 December 2014 - 07:31 AM.
#9
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 02:24 PM
TBH, the mech that benefited most from said doors now doesn't... it's harder to use the Centurion the same way it was before. The added protection was worth the delay at times....
#10
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 02:26 PM
Mad Porthos, on 16 December 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:
...when closed gave a 15% damage reduction to the centurion left torso....
It was only 10% damage reduction
#11
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 05:14 PM
I don't think people understand what bay doors do...
The damage reduction that doors provide is ONLY TO THE COMPONENTS IN THAT HIT LOCATION.
So, catapult bay doors provide 10% damage reduction to the components in the arms when closed. When there is any armor on a catapult's arms, the doors, open or closed, provide no benefit.
Bay doors provide only slight protection to components, not against any form of damage - which is why the doors were removed from the Centurion, as it proved to be a difficult mechanic for new players to deal with, for such a slight bonus that they were very likely unaware of.
The damage reduction that doors provide is ONLY TO THE COMPONENTS IN THAT HIT LOCATION.
So, catapult bay doors provide 10% damage reduction to the components in the arms when closed. When there is any armor on a catapult's arms, the doors, open or closed, provide no benefit.
Bay doors provide only slight protection to components, not against any form of damage - which is why the doors were removed from the Centurion, as it proved to be a difficult mechanic for new players to deal with, for such a slight bonus that they were very likely unaware of.
#12
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 05:23 PM
Christof Romulus, on 16 December 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:
I don't think people understand what bay doors do...
The damage reduction that doors provide is ONLY TO THE COMPONENTS IN THAT HIT LOCATION.
So, catapult bay doors provide 10% damage reduction to the components in the arms when closed. When there is any armor on a catapult's arms, the doors, open or closed, provide no benefit.
Bay doors provide only slight protection to components, not against any form of damage - which is why the doors were removed from the Centurion, as it proved to be a difficult mechanic for new players to deal with, for such a slight bonus that they were very likely unaware of.
The damage reduction that doors provide is ONLY TO THE COMPONENTS IN THAT HIT LOCATION.
So, catapult bay doors provide 10% damage reduction to the components in the arms when closed. When there is any armor on a catapult's arms, the doors, open or closed, provide no benefit.
Bay doors provide only slight protection to components, not against any form of damage - which is why the doors were removed from the Centurion, as it proved to be a difficult mechanic for new players to deal with, for such a slight bonus that they were very likely unaware of.
Test your theory.
Go to the Testing Grounds; Forest Colony is good. Use a PPC, AC20 or an AC10. Shoot the ears for 40 damage. Notice how you...didn't breach 40 armour?
10% damage reduction.
Edited by Mcgral18, 16 December 2014 - 05:43 PM.
#13
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 06:40 PM
Mcgral18, on 16 December 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:
Test your theory.
Go to the Testing Grounds; Forest Colony is good. Use a PPC, AC20 or an AC10. Shoot the ears for 40 damage. Notice how you...didn't breach 40 armour?
10% damage reduction.
Whelp, I was going to blow you away with science, however it appears that patch notes in these forums do not go back into 2012...
On August 28, 2012 there were patch notes that indicated the following: http://mwomercs.com/...ile-doors-open/
If you scroll down to the post by DirePhoenix, he copy pasted the patch notes at that time. I attempted to use the Wayback machine to search for the patch notes at that time, however this site has blocked it from being archived =(
I'll keep looking for the beta patchnote to be more legit, or, if PGI could simply intervene and just tell us what effect bay doors currently have, that would be appreciated.
[Edit]
No sooner did I post this, did I forget that I knew how to use Google:
http://mwomercs.com/...0089-breakdown/
Straight from the horses mouth - and there are no further patch notes about weapon bay doors to be found. Sounds like they protect components.
Edited by Christof Romulus, 16 December 2014 - 06:44 PM.
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 06:47 PM
Christof Romulus, on 16 December 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:
Whelp, I was going to blow you away with science, however it appears that patch notes in these forums do not go back into 2012...
On August 28, 2012 there were patch notes that indicated the following: http://mwomercs.com/...ile-doors-open/
If you scroll down to the post by DirePhoenix, he copy pasted the patch notes at that time. I attempted to use the Wayback machine to search for the patch notes at that time, however this site has blocked it from being archived =(
I'll keep looking for the beta patchnote to be more legit, or, if PGI could simply intervene and just tell us what effect bay doors currently have, that would be appreciated.
[Edit]
No sooner did I post this, did I forget that I knew how to use Google:
http://mwomercs.com/...0089-breakdown/
Straight from the horses mouth - and there are no further patch notes about weapon bay doors to be found. Sounds like they protect components.
On August 28, 2012 there were patch notes that indicated the following: http://mwomercs.com/...ile-doors-open/
If you scroll down to the post by DirePhoenix, he copy pasted the patch notes at that time. I attempted to use the Wayback machine to search for the patch notes at that time, however this site has blocked it from being archived =(
I'll keep looking for the beta patchnote to be more legit, or, if PGI could simply intervene and just tell us what effect bay doors currently have, that would be appreciated.
[Edit]
No sooner did I post this, did I forget that I knew how to use Google:
http://mwomercs.com/...0089-breakdown/
Straight from the horses mouth - and there are no further patch notes about weapon bay doors to be found. Sounds like they protect components.
I take it you never went to the testing grounds?
I did. It took 5 PPC shots to piece 40 armour. You're wrong.
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 06:49 PM
Mcgral18, on 16 December 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:
I take it you never went to the testing grounds?
I did. It took 5 PPC shots to piece 40 armour. You're wrong.
Find me the patch note that proves you right.
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Posted 16 December 2014 - 06:56 PM
Christof Romulus, on 16 December 2014 - 06:49 PM, said:
Find me the patch note that proves you right.
Go into the bloody game.
Shoot the mech.
I've already proved you wrong. You're too dense to try it, though. Catapult only got IS buffs, so it's not quirked armour. It's 10% damage resistance; it takes 44 damage to piece 40 armour.
Now, please try to disprove my game client.
Hell, your documents don't even prove your point! Component isn't internal component, it's the arm, CT or ST. Straight up 10% damage resistance.
Quote
When the doors are closed, the Weapon Bay Doors provide 10% damage resistance to the component they are connected to.
Edited by Mcgral18, 16 December 2014 - 06:58 PM.
#17
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Posted 17 December 2014 - 12:33 PM
Source:
http://mwomercs.com/...0089-breakdown/
The "component" in this context means the section that the missile bay doors happen to be at.
For instance, the Stalker and Catapult has it in the arms (or "Catapult ears").
The Kintaros with the missile CT have those doors.
http://mwomercs.com/...0089-breakdown/
Quote
WEAPON BAY DOORS
The state of your Weapon bay Doors provides a tactical advantage in two ways.
When the doors are closed, the Weapon Bay Doors provide 10% damage resistance to the component they are connected to.
When the doors are open, weapons covered by the doors will fire without the extra 0.5s delay it takes for them to open.
By default Weapon Bay Doors are controlled with the slash [/] key and their indicators are located in the cockpit.
Yellow - Closed
Green - Open
Red - Destroyed
The state of your Weapon bay Doors provides a tactical advantage in two ways.
When the doors are closed, the Weapon Bay Doors provide 10% damage resistance to the component they are connected to.
When the doors are open, weapons covered by the doors will fire without the extra 0.5s delay it takes for them to open.
By default Weapon Bay Doors are controlled with the slash [/] key and their indicators are located in the cockpit.
Yellow - Closed
Green - Open
Red - Destroyed
The "component" in this context means the section that the missile bay doors happen to be at.
For instance, the Stalker and Catapult has it in the arms (or "Catapult ears").
The Kintaros with the missile CT have those doors.
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