28 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

ive noticed allot of mixed feelings when it comes to IS vs Clan,
some say Clan are still over power to their IS counter parts,
others say Clan are weaker minus the Trinity3(SCR TBR DWF),


=Light Fusion Engines=
first give InnerSphere Pilots Light Fusion Engines,
this would help give Battle-Mechs more options to play with,
-
Light Fusion Engines(LFE)
where created by IS scientists by reverse engineering Clan XL-Engines,
they gave IS Pilots the Survivability of Clan, at only 75% the Weight of STD-Engines,
its believed Federated Commonwealth Scientists had working prototypes as early as 3052-53,
-
now for all those who feel that with LFE people will never use XL or STD engines,
i disagree, some Light & Medium Pilots will always want XL's for their Weight savings,
as well as some Heavy & Assault Pilots will always want STD's for their survivability,


=LFE Table=
InnerSphere Engine Comparison,
Weight of the three Types of Engine,
Size-..............STD-..............LFE-..............XL........
100-...............1.0.................1.0................0.5........
110-...............2.5.................1.5................1.0........
120-...............3.0.................1.5................1.0........
130-...............4.5.................3.0................2.5........
140-...............5.0.................3.5................2.5........
150-...............6.5.................5.0................4.0........
160-...............7.0.................5.5................4.0........
170-...............7.0.................5.5................4.0........
180-...............9.0.................7.0................5.5........
190-...............9.5.................7.5................6.0........
200-..............11.5................9.5................7.5........
210-..............13.0...............10.5...............8.5........
220-..............14.0...............11.5...............9.0........
230-..............15.5...............13.0..............10.5........
240-..............16.5...............13.5..............11.0........
250-..............18.5...............15.5..............12.5........
260-..............19.5...............16.0..............13.0........
270-..............20.5...............17.0..............13.5........
280-..............22.0...............18.0..............14.0........
290-..............23.5...............19.0..............15.0........
300-..............25.0...............20.0..............15.5........
310-..............27.5...............22.5..............17.5........
320-..............29.5...............24.0..............18.5........
330-..............31.5...............25.5..............19.5........
340-..............34.0...............27.0..............20.5........
350-..............36.5...............29.0..............22.0........
360-..............40.0...............31.5..............23.5........
370-..............43.5...............34.5..............25.5........
380-..............48.0...............37.5..............27.5........
390-..............53.0...............41.5..............30.0........
400-..............59.5...............46.5..............33.5........
(these LFE Values almost exactly between STD and XL)
(i believe LFE take up the same Crit-Space as a Clan XL)

another Idea is to Just add,
150LFE, 250LFE, & 350LFE,
as the only Available at this time,
as all would be 3052 prototypes,


=Universal Hard-Points=
so now onto Clan Omni-Mechs
first off Omni-Mechs are supposed to be-able to mount any weapon Equipment with in them,
for Balance, Omni-Mechs in MWO can swap Omni-pods and their hardpoints, between Variants,
-
so in the spirit of giving Clan a bonus as to benefit most of the under-preforming Clan,
i propose to give most Clan 1Extra-Universal-HardPoint on the Side-Torsos Prime Variants,
this Extra-Universal-HardPoint would be able to hold(Engery, Ballistic, Missile hardpoints),
it would not beable to Mount Jump-Jets and or ECM, as both could break the system,
all Prime Side-Torsos would ether not have any Quirks or have a negative Quirk,


=Omni-Mech Table=
Omni-mechs that would Benefit,
from this Univeral-HardPoints System,

=MistLynx=
because of the LT not having any space available,
these Universal-HardPoints would be in the P-RT & P-LA,
-
these would allow for more varied Energy Missile and Ballistics builds,
giving the KFX more light weapon(ER-SL / SRM / MG) possibilities,

=KitFox=
because of the both RT & LT having space available,
these Universal-HardPoints would be in the P-RT & P-LT,
-
these would allow for more varied Energy and Missile builds,
giving the KFX more Energy and Missile possibilities,

=Adder=
because of the both RT & LT have all types of hardpoints,
these Universal-HardPoints would be in the P-RA & P-LA,
-
these would allow for more varied Energy builds,
giving the ADR more Energy and beam possibilities,

=IceFerret=
because of the both RT & LT having space available,
these Universal-HardPoints would be in the P-RT & P-LT,
-
these would allow for more varied Energy and Missile builds,
giving the IFR more Energy and Missile aiding its Energy Game,

=Nova=
because of the both RT & LT having space available,
these Universal-HardPoints would be in the P-RT & P-LT,
-
these would allow for more Missile builds which it desperately needs,
giving the NVA's more Missile possabilities, and heat management,

=MadDog=
because of the both RT & LT having space available,
these Universal-HardPoints would be in the P-RT & P-LT,
-
these would allow for more varied Energy and Ballistic builds,
giving the MDD some more Ballistic and Energy Possibilities,

=Summoner=
because of the both RT & LT having space available,
these Universal-HardPoints would be in the P-RT & P-LT,
-
these would allow for more varied Energy and Mixed builds,
giving the SMN some more Omni-Pod versatility,

=Gargoyle=
because of the both RT & LT having space available,
these Universal-HardPoints would be in the P-RT & P-LT,
-
these would allow for more varied Energy or SRM builds,
as well as give the GAR abit of a Brawling boost,

=WarHawk=
because of the LT not having any space available,
these Universal-HardPoints would be in the P-RT & P-RA,
-
these would allow for more varied Ballistic and Missile builds,
giving the WHK Balance Energy Ballistic and Missile possibilities,


Omni-mechs that wouldnt really Benefit,
from this Univeral-HardPoints System,

=StormCrow=
because of the both RT & LT having space available,
these Universal-HardPoints would be in the P-RT & P-LT,
-
these really wouldnt help the SCR too much,
as other variants already have Energy and Missile in the Side-Torsos,
they would only Gain Ballistics in the Side-Torsos,

=HellBringer=
because of the both RT & LT have allot of hardpoints,
these Universal-HardPoints would be in the P-RA & P-LA,
-
these really wouldnt help the HBR too much,
to avoid over powered Prime Side-Torsos, P-Arms gain the bonus,
they would only benefit with Missiles in the Prime RA & LA,

=TimberWolf=
because of the both RT & LT having space available,
these Universal-HardPoints would be in the P-RT & P-LT,
-
these really wouldnt help the TBR too much,
as other variants already have Ballistic Energy and Missile in the Side-Torsos,
their really isnt anything they would only Gain, that the S variant cant already do,

=DireWolf=
because of the both RT & LT having space available,
these Universal-HardPoints would be in the P-RT & P-LT,
-
these really wouldnt help the DWF too much,
as other variants already have Ballistic and Missile in the Side-Torsos,
they would only Gain 1Energy in the Side-Torsos, or 1Missile in the RT,


=So To Recap=
LFE's would give IS a Engine choice between XL & STD Engines,
-giving them more flexibility that would in turn give them more choice,
Prime Universal-HardPoints would Give Clan Under-preformers a boost,
-giving them more flexibility that would in turn give them more options,

=Notes=
the LFE doesn't come out officially until WolfDragons 3053,
-but PGI has given us some Tech Variants from 3052 already,
-so its possible we could get LFE with out breaking the timeline,
i also feel having some Universal-HardPoints on some Omni-pods,
-will stay more true to what a Omni-Mech is and how they work,
also MWO with CW, Technically being an alternate Universe,
-its up to PGI when we can actually get new things,


see something you think i should add?
see something you think i should change?
(rework- Changed the Poll Please Revote)

Thoughts Comments Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit- Spelling,
Edit2- Recap,
Edit3- Lore Notes,
Edit4- Engines,
Edit5- Poll Option added,
Edit6- LFE crit-size,
Edit7- Partial Rework,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 23 February 2015 - 09:42 PM.

[Hotthedd]

I believe PGI is sticking with the timeline, so no Light Fusion engines for a few years.

[Andi Nagasia]

Pgi isnt really sticking to the time line, Russ has said,
MWO as well as CW in particular is alternate timeline,
as the players can write the future of the BT universe,
as such they can also rewrite when Tech is available,

[Tarl Cabot]

The other differences between Clan and IS mechs is that Clan mechs has more weapon symmetry whereas IS mechs are mostly asymmetric. Clans have more of a balance payload with more hardpoints whereas IS payload are generally heavy on the right side with fewer hardpoints.

Do the quirks help? Yes, unfortunately though many pilots are not as aggressive as they should be, and nothing PGI can do to fix that... Add the Ultralight fusion engines so that a pilot will not have to make a difficult decision of standard engine, slow mech, why move from where I am vs a XL engine..I can go faster and carrying some more weapons but I will die if I lose a side torso after leaving my cover...

Dang if ya do, dang if ya don't.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 20 December 2014 - 09:20 PM.

[Wolfwood592]

Would be solid

[CH103]

I've been thinking that light fusion engines would be great for IS medium mechs and heavies for a while. Now while this is a perfectly resonable tech to introduce to the game there may be a shift from IS using XL's and STD engines but I'd always use an XL in a light and a STD engine in an assault so I don't think it would be too bad.

Edited by Chevrolet103, 23 December 2014 - 01:54 PM.

[Matthias Malthias]

Light Fusion engines would THE single greatest buff to IS heavies and mediums that they would require. Quite often, all that is required for some builds to work is all of 2-4 tons. Given how LFE grants us these bonuses for Clan XL survivability it would be a massive boon for many builds like the Hunchback 4G, Cataphracts (which are more tonnage limited than hardpoint limited) and Orions (which feature a lot of symmetry, but have terrible hitboxes so it's better to build them like glass cannons with tons of guns).

The only issue I foresee is IS quirks. A lot of the quirks right now are simply overpowered; the Thunderbolt ER-PPC and MPulse ones in particular; as are builds like the Wubshee and Wubverine that came about because of those quirks.

I'd be in favour of putting in IS LFEs if it also came along with nerfs to IS quirks across the board; or an overhaul of the heat system to nerf 60+ heatcaps and increase dissipation. One or the other; or both. With the game in its current state, LFE would definitely put IS over the top of Clan; which would then require further rebalancing. Adding universal hardpoints would be of some utility in closing that gap; but really, what "good" weapons are available for Clans other than missiles and lasers? It would further sideline Clan ACs; unless Clan ACs were buffed to fire less shots per burst.

[IraqiWalker]

Matthias Malthias, on 23 December 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:

Light Fusion engines would THE single greatest buff to IS heavies and mediums that they would require. Quite often, all that is required for some builds to work is all of 2-4 tons. Given how LFE grants us these bonuses for Clan XL survivability it would be a massive boon for many builds like the Hunchback 4G, Cataphracts (which are more tonnage limited than hardpoint limited) and Orions (which feature a lot of symmetry, but have terrible hitboxes so it's better to build them like glass cannons with tons of guns).

The only issue I foresee is IS quirks. A lot of the quirks right now are simply overpowered; the Thunderbolt ER-PPC and MPulse ones in particular; as are builds like the Wubshee and Wubverine that came about because of those quirks.

I'd be in favour of putting in IS LFEs if it also came along with nerfs to IS quirks across the board; or an overhaul of the heat system to nerf 60+ heatcaps and increase dissipation. One or the other; or both. With the game in its current state, LFE would definitely put IS over the top of Clan; which would then require further rebalancing. Adding universal hardpoints would be of some utility in closing that gap; but really, what "good" weapons are available for Clans other than missiles and lasers? It would further sideline Clan ACs; unless Clan ACs were buffed to fire less shots per burst.

I would just like to note that the wubshee existed LONG before the quirks were even thought of. Dare I say, before even the clans came about.

[cRaZy8or5e]

Should have left Clan Mechs as true omnimechs.

Make clans drop as a binary and IS as a company. 10 vs 12.

The lighter the binary, the more rewards the clanners receive.

Clan mechs and IS mechs aren't supposed to be balanced. The initial imbalance was made up for later with the introduction of Lostech, salvage, and reverse engineering.

As an IS player I would rather have a more realistic simulation than balanced gameplay ...

The current acrobatics of trying to balance the two sides are disheartening, especially for what it means down the road when IS tech starts to get closer and closer to Clan tech. As it stands right now, IS mechs are more "Omni" than clan mechs are. What happens when we start adding new IS weapons systems?

[JadeTimberwolf]

Universal Hardpoints on Omnis make sense but as for the Light Fusion Engines, that's 12 years away in development (if we follow the lore).

EDIT: I should make note that I refer to all OmniMechs in this aspect even though following the lore we are 2 years away from the first IS Omni.

Edited by JadeTimberwolf, 11 January 2015 - 05:30 PM.

[Night Thastus]

No. LFE's are the only clan advantage right now. Don't take that away from us as well. Hard enough as it is. Mech's are expensive, ghost heat is intense, can't change engines, can't change armor type, can't change structure type, have hardpointed weapons/heatsinks/ect.

IS shouldn't have DHS at this point, so if they have LFE's too, it'll be rediculous. Plus, it's not really widely availble at this point in the lore. If they forward the timeline, sure, why not, but not over 10 years in advance.

[VinJade]

@ NIght Wind
Remember the big bad clans are so over powered that the IS needs to be one step ahead of the clans regardless of the fact that all of the IS machines come with quirks, the ghost heat is a real killer for clan tech compared to IS tech.

lets not forget the T-bolt that can fire all of those PPCs with little problem when it comes to heat and its recycle time.

now I am not bias as I have both IS & Clan tech based mechs and I enjoy them both but even I have noticed that the Clans who should have an edge don't as that edge has been nullified by those quirks.

Edited by VinJade, 15 February 2015 - 05:39 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

As you have noticed with the recent quirk rollout that T-bolt is now 25% total for the ERPPC instead of its previous 50% heat generation.

Another way to look at the quirks is the lack of hardpoints for IS mechs, and of those hardpoints most are not symmetric but focused on one side of the mech.

Another thing to add is that speed is life, the ability to move in and out of combat quickly allows a faster mech to deliver an alpha or two then scoot to cover, sorta of like the "poptarts" of old but now it is a horizontal movement instead of a vertical movement.

[Christopher Hamilton]

please for the sake of usefulnes, keep LVL3 tech out of this game.
it already wrecked CBT

[VinJade]

in tw there if I recall right is no longer any level system so I guess all is fair now.

[Tarl Cabot]

If LFE are ever added, they could work it to match Clan mechs, make only one LFE available (or very few, 3-4 selectable) per chassis instead of allowing a wide range of engines. The players would then need to decide, only one selectable LFE for that T-bolt, go to a heavier and slower standard engine or a faster, lighter but less durable XL engine.

[Andi Nagasia]

Tarl Cabot, on 19 February 2015 - 08:11 PM, said:

If LFE are ever added, they could work it to match Clan mechs, make only one LFE available (or very few, 3-4 selectable) per chassis instead of allowing a wide range of engines. The players would then need to decide, only one selectable LFE for that T-bolt, go to a heavier and slower standard engine or a faster, lighter but less durable XL engine.

i agree, maybe only- 150LFE, 250LFE, & 350LFE,
giving options but not so many as to invalidate XLs and STDs,
also they are Experimental Tech, now that we are in 3052,
so having very few types would make sense in general,

[ROSS-128]

I think the choice between LFE and STD for IS would usually be less about survivability (when all you have left is a med laser on your head, you're basically dead anyway) and more about "do I have enough room for my side torso weapons"?

For example, any IS mech that wants to run an AC20 in its side torso (HBK-4G, certain Atlas builds, certain Banshee-3S builds) has no choice but to run a standard engine simply because they need the slots.

[Rogue Jedi]

E Rommel, on 04 March 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

For example, any IS mech that wants to run an AC20 in its side torso (HBK-4G, certain Atlas builds, certain Banshee-3S builds) has no choice but to run a standard engine simply because they need the slots.

bad example, the LFE only takes 2 slots therefore you could fit a Light Fusion Engine and an AC20 provided you are prepared to put armor elsewere (and 2 tones of ammo will never be enough for an AC20)

I would have no problem with a few Clan hardpoints being changed to universal hard points but do not want the "good" Clan Mechs reciving extra hardpoints, one of the major things that makes the Timber Wolf and Storm Crow overpowered is the abundance of hardpoints which can be used effectavly.

as for the Light Fusion Engine I think that would be fine provided, as others have sugested, a limited range are available e.g. a light fusion engine for every 50 of engine rating.

[MechWarrior849305]

Yeah, why bother. I'll go easily from my STD325 to LFE350 on my K.Crab and will have 1-1.5tons for free with the same survivability and even more speed.
...
When Clans came into game the first my words to my friends were: "Clans will be OP due to their superfast STD engines, mark my words. Don't be fooled by 'XL' in its name". Guess who was rite. And that is long lasting issue, no matter quirks or weapon nerfs/buffs are there. Symmetric builds? Lol, you are looking at wrong direction. Many meta clan mechs use assymmetric pinpoint poptart builds, little to say more.
And now look @ what we have: the only successful IS mechs against clans are overquirked super-imba-overpowered few metamechs, most of them either have STD engies and high alpha or have DPS triple of that Direwolf's. The only thing that clans can not do by now - light sworming. But only and only by now.
...
So, do we need LFE? - yes, we do
Do we need it now? - For now it could solve quirk issue, we could just remove that *** from the game.

-------------------

As for universal-hardpoint-omnipod - these pods could do something to increase usefulness of subpar clan mechs, like Nova or Gargoyle. There is no much of a reson to give those to meta clan mechs.
And these pods also could be a solution to quirk stupidness There is no need in artificial increasing stats of some mechs if they are already good.