44 replies to this topic

[Mainhunter]

I think, lights should not have 3 body parts armor wise. Add all 3 armor stats and cut it in half, no matter where you hit the body part you will reduce this one value.

For example, lets take a Spider. All 3 body parts (I use the stats on the vanilla mechs) do have in the frontal area together 80 armor and 48 HP. Divide this two numbers in half and you have some realistic value.

Actually you can't hit a single body part while on the move, because of the unrealistic movement lights have in this game. No 25-35 ton vehicle will ever be that maneuverable (without an anti-gravity device), it's called inertia of masses.

[dubplate]

That won't happen, part of what makes the Battletech game system are the hit locations. Also there are a lot more than 3 hit locations.

[superteds]

one of the badder threads in quite a while

[Coolant]

Mainhunter, on 17 December 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

I think, lights should not have 3 body parts armor wise. Add all 3 armor stats and cut it in half, no matter where you hit the body part you will reduce this one value.

For example, lets take a Spider. All 3 body parts (I use the stats on the vanilla mechs) do have in the frontal area together 80 armor and 48 HP. Divide this two numbers in half and you have some realistic value.

Actually you can't hit a single body part while on the move, because of the unrealistic movement lights have in this game. No 25-35 ton vehicle will ever be that maneuverable (without an anti-gravity device), it's called inertia of masses.

too complicated to change now....it's fine the way it is, just make hits on lights register better...

[LordMelvin]

I don't think this would change anything. Part of the reason lights are so hard to kill is wonky hitreg, not their hitboxes. If you manage to get any amount of damage to register light mechs go down hard and fast.

[Mechteric]

Ever driven a light and gotten one shotted by dual gauss?

You should try it some time. Really builds character.


The problem is the hit boxes/hit registration, combining sections doesn't solve anything other than maybe make the light queue % go from low to lower. That's not acceptable.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 17 December 2014 - 08:24 AM.

[Bagheera]

Nope, but thanks for the input.

Hit locations stay. Besides, 99.9% of lights are carting an XL, which in the case of IS lights means you just need to knock off a side torso to kill them, which usually doesn't take much. Why make it harder to kill them via engine destruction?

[El Bandito]

Coolant, on 17 December 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

too complicated to change now....it's fine the way it is, just make hits on lights register better...

The only reliable and easy way to do that is to globally nerf movement speed for all mechs, yet again. However, that will bring buttloads of complaints from Light pilots who will be even more vulnerable to PPFLD. PGI can circumvent that problem by making PPCs and IS ACs stream-fire and force multiple Gauss to have 0.5 seconds of firing delay in between shots, etc...

[BARBAR0SSA]

Mainhunter, on 17 December 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

I think, lights should not have 3 body parts armor wise. Add all 3 armor stats and cut it in half, no matter where you hit the body part you will reduce this one value.

For example, lets take a Spider. All 3 body parts (I use the stats on the vanilla mechs) do have in the frontal area together 80 armor and 48 HP. Divide this two numbers in half and you have some realistic value.

Actually you can't hit a single body part while on the move, because of the unrealistic movement lights have in this game. No 25-35 ton vehicle will ever be that maneuverable (without an anti-gravity device), it's called inertia of masses.

Better solution is to allow ferro to let you bring MORE armor, not drop the weight on a mech.

[Mainhunter]

CapperDeluxe, on 17 December 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Ever driven a light and gotten one shotted by dual gauss?

You should try it some time. Really builds character.


The problem is the hit boxes/hit registration, combining sections doesn't solve anything other than maybe make the light queue % go from low to lower. That's not acceptable.

As if there are so many dual gauss out there....

Last 2 matches we had 4 lights on our side. Sure, queues show low numbers, but it is far from dramatically low.

It's not only the hit reg, it's also the lag that occurs when a light runs circles around you, or the ridiculous movement possibilities. No one here will tell me he can aim at special body parts when a spider, commando ect. is in full motion.

My point is, because you cant pick a weak body part from a light in the most circumstances, it has effective to much armor for such a small vehicle.

If you add realistic movements eg. only full speed when running in a straight line and other realistic implementations, then I'm fine with what we have.

[Y E O N N E]

Aim for the legs; they can't twist damage away from legs and the hit reg is pretty phenomenal on that location. Take the leg, take the Light.

Also, do you play Lights? They are far, far from being as tanky as you think they are.

[Joseph Mallan]

CapperDeluxe, on 17 December 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Ever driven a light and gotten one shotted by dual gauss?

You should try it some time. Really builds character.


The problem is the hit boxes/hit registration, combining sections doesn't solve anything other than maybe make the light queue % go from low to lower. That's not acceptable.

I have had it happen for years and it was only a single Gauss! Try driving a Light on TT with only half the armor we have here! Lights die VERY easy. it's part of their ... charm. They are fast insects that if ignored will do you in. But actually hit them... satisfying!

[Pjwned]

Mainhunter, on 17 December 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

I think, lights should not have 3 body parts armor wise. Add all 3 armor stats and cut it in half, no matter where you hit the body part you will reduce this one value.

For example, lets take a Spider. All 3 body parts (I use the stats on the vanilla mechs) do have in the frontal area together 80 armor and 48 HP. Divide this two numbers in half and you have some realistic value.

Actually you can't hit a single body part while on the move, because of the unrealistic movement lights have in this game. No 25-35 ton vehicle will ever be that maneuverable (without an anti-gravity device), it's called inertia of masses.

This would effectively turn the mech into a giant center torso.

Stupid.

El Bandito, on 17 December 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

The only reliable and easy way to do that is to globally nerf movement speed for all mechs, yet again. However, that will bring buttloads of complaints from Light pilots who will be even more vulnerable to PPFLD. PGI can circumvent that problem by making PPCs and IS ACs stream-fire and force multiple Gauss to have 0.5 seconds of firing delay in between shots, etc...

A global movement speed reduction could be done, but it would have to come with various agility reductions (largely for heavier mechs) like slower torso twisting, slower crosshair movement, lower torso twist angles, etc. as well as likely needing other adjustments like weapon ranges.

It would be complex to do it properly, that's for sure.

Yeonne Greene, on 18 December 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

Aim for the legs; they can't twist damage away from legs and the hit reg is pretty phenomenal on that location. Take the leg, take the Light.

Also, do you play Lights? They are far, far from being as tanky as you think they are.

Well, I have surprised myself a number of times with how long I've lived running around wreaking havoc in a group of enemies with my Jenner, and part of it might be due to bad hit registration at times, although I also tend to see damage spread all over my mech when that happens.

Edited by Pjwned, 18 December 2014 - 05:49 AM.

[Void Angel]

Just as a random sample, lights are at ten fracking percent in the queue right now. That's dramatic - making up facts and just throwing out arguments doesn't make this any less of a bad idea. Lights are shockingly underrepresented for a reason; asking for them to be more easily killed... that only kills your credibility.

[Troutmonkey]

Pjwned, on 18 December 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

This would effectively turn the mech into a giant center torso.

So make every light mech like a Jenner?

[Pjwned]

Troutmonkey, on 18 December 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

So make every light mech like a Jenner?

Even though people give the Jenner crap for its huge center torso (and yeah, it can be a problem) what that means is that the side torsos are very rarely hit except by streak missiles, allowing builds like this or this or this. The arms aren't hit very often either (though you can twist damage to them) for mostly the same reason, so you can shave off even more armor there, and it allows for pretty decent firepower and heat management with the tonnage saved.

Streak missiles are even more lethal if you're running around with armor values like that though because those missiles will inevitably hit the side torsos, but then you should generally be avoiding streak boats in a light mech anyways, or at least careful around them.

I don't take credit for this revelation by the way, somebody else mentioned it in another post somewhere (I forget who and where) and I've since found that shaving armor off the side torsos (and arms) is pretty nice since it allows more equipment to be packed in while only dying rarely to the side torso exploding.

Edited by Pjwned, 18 December 2014 - 07:22 AM.

[Vandul]

[Tristan Winter]

I do agree with one thing though. A 25-35 ton mech going at 150-170 kph and basically making a full stop at the drop of a dime, it's kind of ridiculous. Especially since we're usually walking on unstable ground, like mud, sand, snow or ice. Try running at full speed on ice and stopping instantly. I don't care how many gyros they have. A good physics simulator this game isn't.

[Bishop Steiner]

CapperDeluxe, on 17 December 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Ever driven a light and gotten one shotted by dual gauss?

You should try it some time. Really builds character.


The problem is the hit boxes/hit registration, combining sections doesn't solve anything other than maybe make the light queue % go from low to lower. That's not acceptable.

Ever driven a light and gotten one shotted by dual gauss?

Nope, because unless you are parked, it probably has never happened to you, either.

I find most "1 shot" were missed 2-3 times, and failed to register the damage another 1-2 times that hits did register (or spread it in wonky ways) meaning that most one shots, in my experience, are closer to 3-6 shots, with the Light only noticing the one that actually registered and killed them.

[Troutmonkey]

Pjwned, on 18 December 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Even though people give the Jenner crap for its huge center torso (and yeah, it can be a problem) what that means is that the side torsos are very rarely hit except by streak missiles, allowing builds like this or this or this.

Wow. The Jenner was my second mech purchased in OB and at no point did I ever consider that. Might have to give it a try...