81 replies to this topic

[Wolf Clearwater]

CyclonerM, on 29 May 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

On the other hand, a few days ago we were about to win a CW battle when i asked our drop commander and Starmate to let me fight alone in my Gargoyle Prime vs the last Quickdraw about to drop from their Leopard. I was granted the request and he ordered everyone to not fire on the last enemy, even if he was firing at them, to let me try to fight with him.

Instead of trying to give a more interesting end to the match, he chose to ignore me firing on him and attack my Clan mates standing still..

I see this all the time from both sides. Sadly. If offered the chance to fight with honor, one should take it. It does seem like many think honor should not apply because it is a video game. Honor is in the behavior, no matter the place.


[color=#CCCCCC]
CyclonerM, on 17 December 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:[/color]
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I mean, a Clan Wolf banner does not make you a Wolf, your action and behaviour do.
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I actually agree with you here.

KuroNyra, on 29 May 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

There should be stuff done to make Zellbrigen attractive for both side.
If a duel is created, Huge increase of reward for both of them and penalty for someone who is disrupting the duel.

I would love to see that!


Anyway, there are plenty of merc units (Like the Forlorn Hope) who fight with their contract holders best interests.
Any merc company doing otherwise is doing themselves and everyone else a disservice.

For example, I am rank 12 in FRR (My very favorite IS faction). When Ghost Bear attacks FRR, we pull no punches, do not shirk, and fight our hardest.
When we fight for Kurita (upcoming soon), we will fight our hardest for what the loyalist contract holders desire.
When we move on to our next Clan contract, we look to loyalist units to direct the planets to take.

CyclonerM, on 29 May 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

Btw, i fear we are talking about different things. What do you mean by "Dezgra and trolls"? So far, i have seen very little evidence of CW units being consistently more trollish than other faction.. Especially Kurita

Maybe not units, but Clan Wolf has some of the most toxic pugs I have encountered in CW. Sorry, but only when we contracted under Davion was it worse. (Not to say every Wolf or Davion player is toxic)

[ArchAngelWC]

Bubblewhip, on 29 May 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

Even Jade Falcon is less short sighted than that. Would you like to settle this in the circle of equals? Or is the risk of facing a freeborn former Federation Suns mercenary too much for you to handle?

Really....so JF/Wolf dance was ? lol

Would that we had trials mode....

Edited by ArchAngelWC, 29 May 2015 - 05:26 PM.

[Bubblewhip]

ArchAngelWC, on 29 May 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

Really....so JF/Wolf dance was ? lol

Would that we had trials mode....

Jade Falcon is willing to accept any warrior Freeborn or not into their ranks even up to a theoretical Khan, and understands that Inner Sphere soldiers are simply misguided individuals who do not yet understand what the Clans are fighting for.

If you still wish for it, Clan Ghost Bear International is willing to accommodate a Zellbrigen between each other. You would be welcome as a guest for this challenge.

[Gremlich Johns]

Mercenaries for Clan is just wrong. If you are using extra-Clan assets, they should be drawn from the Homeworlds Clans.

In the canon, mercenaries were shot on sight and no Clans engaged in ANY dealings with them, other than to kill them, of course.

My advice? Do not hire non-Clan assets.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 30 May 2015 - 06:23 AM.

[PhoenixNMGLB]

Gremlich Johns, on 30 May 2015 - 06:22 AM, said:

Mercenaries for Clan is just wrong. If you are using extra-Clan assets, they should be drawn from the Homeworlds Clans.

In the canon, mercenaries were shot on sight and no Clans engaged in ANY dealings with them, other than to kill them, of course.

My advice? Do not hire non-Clan assets.

How exactly do you stop merc units joining clans in CW?

What do you propose? TK'ing anyone with a merc unit tag?

The way the game stands at the moment it is impossible to regulate populations based on lore. A big help would be to get rid of the one and two week contracts - that will help prevent hopping around.

I think the plan is to allow loyalist units a bit more control.

From the town hall I remember reference to using loyalist coffers to either buff defences or increase the bonus cbills for mercenaries discussed as possibilities.

But absolutely under no circumstances should PGI restrict players to being permanently locked to either clan or IS. It would be commercially disastrous for the game.

[KuroNyra]

PhoenixNMGLB, on 30 May 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

How exactly do you stop merc units joining clans in CW?

What do you propose? TK'ing anyone with a merc unit tag?

The way the game stands at the moment it is impossible to regulate populations based on lore. A big help would be to get rid of the one and two week contracts - that will help prevent hopping around.

I think the plan is to allow loyalist units a bit more control.

From the town hall I remember reference to using loyalist coffers to either buff defences or increase the bonus cbills for mercenaries discussed as possibilities.

But absolutely under no circumstances should PGI restrict players to being permanently locked to either clan or IS. It would be commercially disastrous for the game.

One solution could simply be make Clans Contract permanent only, with no way of getting back to IS.
But that would cause a problem I don't have to explain.


What they should have done was creating 2 pilot profil. When you enter CW for the first time, you have the choice with Either Spheroid or Clanner.

Once you choose for example Clanner, you have to choose the clan you are fighting for (wich are a whole technicly. With battles happening between them but without impact on the map.)

The more you play with that guy, the more Clans Point you get, with some stuff you can unlock like titles, special colors, or even some Reward Mechs.


Same way for the Spheroid, but it has his own "experience" bar.

If you get let's say 10XP with the Clanner, you don't have it with the Spheroid and vice versa.

That could help a bit preventing huge number of people switching side. With huge bonus point if you are keep playing with one faction and not the other. (Loyalty bonus, more C-bill earned, etc etc.)

[PhoenixNMGLB]

KuroNyra, on 30 May 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

One solution could simply be make Clans Contract permanent only, with no way of getting back to IS.
But that would cause a problem I don't have to explain.


What they should have done was creating 2 pilot profil. When you enter CW for the first time, you have the choice with Either Spheroid or Clanner.

Once you choose for example Clanner, you have to choose the clan you are fighting for (wich are a whole technicly. With battles happening between them but without impact on the map.)

The more you play with that guy, the more Clans Point you get, with some stuff you can unlock like titles, special colors, or even some Reward Mechs.


Same way for the Spheroid, but it has his own "experience" bar.

If you get let's say 10XP with the Clanner, you don't have it with the Spheroid and vice versa.

That could help a bit preventing huge number of people switching side. With huge bonus point if you are keep playing with one faction and not the other. (Loyalty bonus, more C-bill earned, etc etc.)

Sounds like an awesome idea - many people have put forward the idea of a two pilot profile unfortunately we got this instead.

As to the separate experience bars etc. Again a good idea but not likely I think.

[Sniper09121986]

KuroNyra, on 30 May 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

One solution could simply be make Clans Contract permanent only, with no way of getting back to IS.
But that would cause a problem I don't have to explain.


What they should have done was creating 2 pilot profil. When you enter CW for the first time, you have the choice with Either Spheroid or Clanner.

Once you choose for example Clanner, you have to choose the clan you are fighting for (wich are a whole technicly. With battles happening between them but without impact on the map.)

The more you play with that guy, the more Clans Point you get, with some stuff you can unlock like titles, special colors, or even some Reward Mechs.


Same way for the Spheroid, but it has his own "experience" bar.

If you get let's say 10XP with the Clanner, you don't have it with the Spheroid and vice versa.

That could help a bit preventing huge number of people switching side. With huge bonus point if you are keep playing with one faction and not the other. (Loyalty bonus, more C-bill earned, etc etc.)

While I agree with the need to reward permanent loyalty players, these measures seem too drastic to me. The principal difference is that it is only Clans that never employ mercs, but for all IS factions it is perfectly fine. Even WoB's, in all their righteous dedication, used to hire mercs like Waco Rangers or Bronson's Horde (off the top of my mind). Therefore the merc shifting between IS factions, while frustrating at times, DOES have its place in canon, as does unit rotation between different clans (sometimes under the initiative of the unit itself).

My take is to implement a notion of "meta-faction" or some-such of Clans on one hand and Inner Sphere on the other. A player or a unit takes up a contract with a faction, and once that expires he is immediately free to go to another faction within that meta-faction, but to go to the other meta-faction he needs to wait through a cool-down period of, say, a month or more without picking up any other contract at all, or pay a HUEG fine, possibly even in MC. That would allow for basic player mobility as we have today, but it would reduce its dynamics in the direction that matters the most and would force all the profit-chasers to cool their heels and/or actually plan ahead.

[DarklightCA]

Yes, make mercs stick to only IS factions. Merc groups large influence of territory gain/loss means nothing to Clan RPers!. With Clan's already outnumbered 5:1, what's a couple dozen highly skilled large merc groups added to that. I am sure Clan's can hold there own and surely won't be beaten back to there home planets in a short period. I have pure faith in this decision and I am sure it will work out great for you guys. (If your a sane person who want's quality balanced gameplay ignore this comment)

[Bubblewhip]

Mercenary behavior is a symptom, not the real problem. The low hanging fruit is addressing the problem that loyalists on both sides get totally screwed when it comes to CW.

With regards to mechbays and achievements, people who feel strongly about fighting for Davion, Steiner, or the Clans only stay in one faction. But there is no objective benefit to staying with a faction based on political beliefs despite the fact that you strongly feel that the faction you picked is a long term affair.

Clan units especially so, but so are some units like SroT and HHoD i bet feel the same as well.

A blood pact contract option should be included for people who intend to stay loyalist. The benefits are that all the faction achievements ditched in place of equivalent achievements that can get you all the same mech bay achievements with the same loyalty points.

Breaking the blood pact contract should include a huge C-bill hit, somewhere in the 10-20 millions, and returning all the mechbays. All filled up? Too bad sell your mechs.

The Mercenary behavior is simply because based on the achievements it is objectively better to keep switching sides. that needs to be gotten rid of by rewarding loyalist units.

Edited by Bubblewhip, 31 May 2015 - 01:10 PM.

[DarklightCA]

Bubblewhip, on 31 May 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

The Mercenary behavior is simply because based on the achievements it is objectively better to keep switching sides. that needs to be gotten rid of by rewarding loyalist units.

Loyalists already get rewards, they have a much larger LP gain to achieve the higher rewards a lot faster and quicker. Merc LP gains are very slow which is what makes Mercs attracted to factions who get higher LP gain because they are getting there butts kicked thus balancing that faction. I fail to understand why having Mercs acting like Mercs is such a bad thing. You guys really haven't provided much facts to why it is other then the always hilarious Merc conspiracies.

Edited by DemonicD3, 31 May 2015 - 02:35 PM.

[Bubblewhip]

DemonicD3, on 31 May 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

Loyalists already get rewards, they have a much larger LP gain to achieve the higher rewards a lot faster and quicker. Merc LP gains are very slow which is what makes Mercs attracted to factions who get higher LP gain because they are getting there butts kicked thus balancing that faction. I fail to understand why having Mercs acting like Mercs is such a bad thing. You guys really haven't provided much facts to why it is other then the always hilarious Merc conspiracies.

Are you serious?

That curve to getting the achievements up to rank 20 is exponential. Which inherently means that getting the first 5 or so achievements for every factions is far easier then getting even from rank 19-20 let alone 1-20.

Let me show you mathematically how absurd your statement is.

The bonus between the two from a "lifetime" contract to a 28 day contract is only 20% difference.

Let's say an equivalent rank of Rank 12 requires 225,000 LP, and factoring in the 20% difference is about 180,000 LP normalized.

Okay so what can you get for 180,000 LP if you went merc?

You can get from rank 0 to Rank 6 which takes 32,000 LP Almost 6 times for a total of 12 Mech Bays, and 5 million c-bills

Compare that to 3 Mech Bays and 8 million c-bills. How on earth is this equal? That C-bill difference can be made up in a weekend event. Where the mech bay difference is $15 of real world money.

At the end of the day, loyalists also have a ceiling of achievements. They can only get so high, and are only allowed to earn a maximum of 5 mech bays for their faction. The mech bays are the most important thing to earn from the achievements, that is why I am asking for a blood pact contract that would allow the same amount of mechbays to be earned for a loyalist unit as would a mercenary.

[Joanna Conners]

We didn't need Mercs in the lore, but then we were a lot more powerful in the lore too weren't we? With the Clans being nerfed there's no reason not to accept the Mercs. Just pretend they're not Mercs and that they're Clan Warriors and problem solved. RP is all about imagination in the first place. If you can't imagine what I've just said you shouldn't be role-playing.

P.S. PGI isn't going to OP the Clans or do anything else people are whining or upset about so get over it and try to have fun or move on to a hobby that doesn't make you so bothered.

[BaconCouch]

Hey now.
As a Merc in the PL who has several tours with the Wolves, and just finished a rotation with the CGB, i'd say this isn't completely true.
We always understand what the faction's target is when we join a faction, and join in the assault, or otherwise spearhead that assault if the front is quiet.
I don't know what this backstabbing crap is that ive seen, but penalizing me just because i'm a merc, despite the loyal service...doesn't really make sense.

[Alec Braca]

Bubblewhip, on 28 May 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

Kerensky forbid you find the next kai Allard who figures out that fighting for aristocrats and nobility is wrong, and pledges his loyalty to the clans and a firm believer in its way of life.

The Clans bring nothing but conflict with them just like the great Houses but in a different form. At least the FRR is a republic with an Elected Prince. Nothing but servitude comes with you Jaguar. There is no difference between the lower caste supporting the privileged few and the common IS citizen for their their House Lords (except FRR ). The Clans rely on constant warfare for their society to function lest they turn on themselves.

[Alec Braca]

Bubblewhip, on 29 May 2015 - 06:33 PM, said:

Jade Falcon is willing to accept any warrior Freeborn or not into their ranks even up to a theoretical Khan, and understands that Inner Sphere soldiers are simply misguided individuals who do not yet understand what the Clans are fighting for.

If you still wish for it, Clan Ghost Bear International is willing to accommodate a Zellbrigen between each other. You would be welcome as a guest for this challenge.

I understand that the FRR soldiers/warriors are fighting for our way of life and right to exist. We were our own nation before Kurita attacked, we are a nation after Kurita left, and we will be FRR in planets that you Clanners have conquered. I understand where the Warden Clans are coming from but the Crusaders are blinded by personal honor and fantasy, just like the high leaders of the IS. You have already seen us lose everything and keep fighting tooth and nail. We will never give up.

[Wildstreak]

Clan Mercs are actually Bondsman who frequently find a way to escape, are allowed to leave the Clan after achieving freedom or are captured by other forces.

[CyclonerM]

Wildstreak, on 04 June 2015 - 06:16 AM, said:

Clan Mercs are actually Bondsman who frequently find a way to escape, are allowed to leave the Clan after achieving freedom or are captured by other forces.

Well, this is a pretty interesting, if not perfectly believable, explanation

[Bubblewhip]

Alec Braca, on 04 June 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:

The Clans bring nothing but conflict with them just like the great Houses but in a different form. At least the FRR is a republic with an Elected Prince.

You are right that the FRR is one of the few honest states in the Inner Sphere. Which is tragic because the only reason we invaded is because frankly you are in the way. The goal of the clans is to revive the Star League and bring stability back to the Inner Sphere. Stability that offers states not just the FRR but other minor powers to prevent being at the mercy of the great houses.

Understandably the FRR will not give us safe passage so we respond with the only answer you will understand which is by force.

Alec Braca, on 04 June 2015 - 05:47 AM, said:

I understand that the FRR soldiers/warriors are fighting for our way of life and right to exist. We were our own nation before Kurita attacked, we are a nation after Kurita left, and we will be FRR in planets that you Clanners have conquered. I understand where the Warden Clans are coming from but the Crusaders are blinded by personal honor and fantasy, just like the high leaders of the IS. You have already seen us lose everything and keep fighting tooth and nail. We will never give up.

And you are stuck between 3 large guns pointing at each other with you in the middle. The FRR is weak, weak compared to all the forces it faces between Kurita, Comstar, and the Clans. Only one side is willing to let you preserve your culture and your way of life and protect you from the forces of Blakists, and the DC. Yet admirably and foolishly you continue to fight for your state to be fully independent, even if it means the complete destruction of your people.

Quote

Nothing but servitude comes with you Jaguar.

I am no Jaguar, I am Ghost Bear. I fight to protect the Inner Sphere and bring back the Star League so that one day you do not have to serve masters who use their strength to prey on your land.

Quote

There is no difference between the lower caste supporting the privileged few and the common IS citizen for their their House Lords (except FRR ). The Clans rely on constant warfare for their society to function lest they turn on themselves.

The warriors of Clans serve everyone else and are the ones who make the greatest sacrifice of all. They get there by risking their life to earn their place. And what do they earn? The warriors of Clans have the second lowest life expectancy rate of the Clans, are demanded absolute loyalty, absolute honor, and must be willing to die at the drop of a hat for no matter what reason.

That is why the warriors are in charge, because the warriors bear the biggest cost of any political decision.

There are Clans that do not understand this relationship like Smoke Jaguar, who feel that their Warrior status is an entitled position of power. You become a warrior because you are willing to give up mind, body, and spirit for the lower castes so that their lives are not in danger by the wars you involve yourself in.

That is why they should be honored and respected.


See you on the Battlefield honorable fighter. Your spirit is strong, if also equally misguided.

[Alec Braca]

Bubblewhip, on 04 June 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

There are Clans that do not understand this relationship like Smoke Jaguar, who feel that their Warrior status is an entitled position of power. You become a warrior because you are willing to give up mind, body, and spirit for the lower castes so that their lives are not in danger by the wars you involve yourself in.

That is why they should be honored and respected.


See you on the Battlefield honorable fighter. Your spirit is strong, if also equally misguided.

Some of the Home Clans are Warden and I believe that they are grounded in reason whereas the Crusaders are out of their mind. (Blood Spirit was Warden at one point I think when they tried to back up the Not-Named Clan, (they were framed by the Widowmakers) they were chastised. I have not seen much honor on the battlefield against Clanners since day one, but I am always ready to start dialogue with the Bears.

Edited by Alec Braca, 08 June 2015 - 01:05 PM.