360 replies to this topic

[Krivvan]

SpiralFace, on 18 December 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

But you better believe that I have seen you guys pumping those Jump Jets to break those hitboxes on T-wolves and Firestarters. I've got nothing against you guys or the meta mechs you bring. But just like you guys pump JJ's to break the hitboxes to press an advantage, these guys are still using the rules of the game to theirs. And its not like those JJ's being busted is a "working as intended" feature like the meta mechs. (Which again I have no issues with.)

Which is why I'm trying to insist on not blaming any of the players.

[KuroNyra]

Krivvan, on 18 December 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

Which is why I'm trying to insist on not blaming any of the players.

And again, remember that the thing who started all of that was the constant disrespect showed by member of your Unit.

It wasn't your skill, or even the tactics. It was the words said by the LORDS, the Huge disrecpect they showed at multiple occasion.

Inb4 "show your screen blablabla", no smoke without fire.

[Krivvan]

Mickey Knoxx, on 18 December 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

And did not even get the last one lol

We saw Maxie up at a high number of wins and SJR and us decided to devote a few games to Butte. We didn't notice that the wins went down significantly by the time of the ceasefire.

[-Natural Selection-]

Krivvan, on 18 December 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

We saw Maxie up at a high number of wins and SJR and us decided to devote a few games to Butte. We didn't notice that the wins went down significantly by the time of the ceasefire.

It happened over the last 30 mins. Is like they all jumped it at once, which seems like a damn good way to go about it imo

Went into last match it was at 9, came out it was at 6 a couple mins before cease fire, refreshed and was at 5

Edited by Mickey Knoxx, 18 December 2014 - 11:14 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

DV McKenna, on 18 December 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

I'm quite happy if teams want to waste their own time camping. We will get out and engage them.

What needs to change is PGIs process of easy access free win turret games, that's the real problem.

What do you suggest?
Wait until you are ready with the first Team - to roll over the second - and so on.

So numeral advantage is sense less?
On the other hand - what do you think is the minimum number of Players you would need to beat a casual Team?
Do you think you can win with 4 vs 12? Or with 12 Mechs and zero Respawn for you?

[Krivvan]

Karl Streiger, on 18 December 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

What do you suggest?
Wait until you are ready with the first Team - to roll over the second - and so on.

So numeral advantage is sense less?
On the other hand - what do you think is the minimum number of Players you would need to beat a casual Team?
Do you think you can win with 4 vs 12? Or with 12 Mechs and zero Respawn for you?

Ideas passed around included increasing the auto-win timer (which is already happening now), making autowins only worth a partial point, having the outnumbering team wait to play against the outnumbered, or displaying which planets have a discrepancy in population (already being implemented).

Mickey Knoxx, on 18 December 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

It happened over the last 30 mins. Is like they all jumped it at once, which seems like a damn good way to go about it imo

Went into last match it was at 9, came out it was at 6 a couple mins before cease fire, refreshed and was at 5

Yeah, we made a mistake, we can't completely ignore planets like that without devoting at least few solos there at least.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Karl Streiger, on 18 December 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

What do you suggest?
Wait until you are ready with the first Team - to roll over the second - and so on.

So numeral advantage is sense less?
On the other hand - what do you think is the minimum number of Players you would need to beat a casual Team?
Do you think you can win with 4 vs 12? Or with 12 Mechs and zero Respawn for you?

What I suggest is actually making people fight over planets. Not vs empty teams and AI turrets.

If there are people in game defending a planet additional forces waiting in the attack que should be held in the que ready to go as defending teams come out and reque.

If there are no games in progress and less than 12 people in the defence que then it can spawn a turret game under current conditions.

Larger number factions can still win out long term but smaller factions aren't left at auto waste of time status.

[RustyBolts]

w00tzor, on 18 December 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

Nope, griefing a match where you hide yourself just for the sake of trolling it's not legit. Enter your base, take down everything on sight and then killing the generator is.

And if you ever saw us doing something like that, that's a pure lie. We tend to fight till the end, not to hide and shut down on a unclimbable hill just to troll. That's kinda different imho.

Making us lose time so the other groups can exploit the server queue and get and autowin.

And i see people complaining about meta builds. This is not the same thing, one is working as intended, the other is not.

If you call taking an ECM light, placing it on the side of a mountain that overlooks a valley and shuttting down to remain hidden so you can provide enemy movement information to your team as trolling, then I guess by your definition, I was trolling. How about this? When the Lords stop trolling in chat, I will stop trolling in game?

[Krivvan]

RustyBolts, on 18 December 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

If you call taking an ECM light, placing it on the side of a mountain that overlooks a valley and shuttting down to remain hidden so you can provide enemy movement information to your team as trolling, then I guess by your definition, I was trolling. How about this? When the Lords stop trolling in chat, I will stop trolling in game?

If you continue doing that when you're the only one alive, then that actually is an unquestionable ToS violation. I don't blame any other Wolf player for the overall strategy they used, but I do take specific objection with griefing by being the last one hiding.

And the extent of the "trolling" in that chat were comments like "Don't be cowards Wolves."

Edited by Krivvan, 18 December 2014 - 11:31 AM.

[RustyBolts]

Xanderpeach, on 18 December 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

There is only one difference.People who's not using "meta" builds can use them by themselves. And CJF just doesn't have enough players, and not a single person who playing for CJF can do something with this.

Sounds like a faction problem that could be solved through recruiting.

[SpiralFace]

Krivvan, on 18 December 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

Which is why I'm trying to insist on not blaming any of the players.

Which I appreciate, even though there are some in this thread on both sides that don't seem to appreciate the sentiment.

I am in agreement with what you are saying though. The current trends are nothing more then the players using the current rules of the game as they are presented to their advantage. If change should happen, it should be through the rules themselves as to how the game is conducted.
I'm fine with tightening up the match timer to give the attackers a better seance of urgency, if anything to balance out the recent changes that are supposed to be targeting the zerg rush that saw you able to farm matches in 2-5 minutes.

I'm not a fan of something like TK has suggested where you auto loose the match if you don't advance by a certain time. At the end of the day, the attackers should be able to go about their attack how they see fit. They are already on the back foot by being forced to at some point try and break through the gate, while the Defender could be more unpredictable if they wished to. And they already are forfiting a ticket simply by keeping you guys at bay in a game mode that is SUPPOSED to be about the galactic conquest meta game, then I don't see anything wrong with that as long as there are "counter tactics" that are an option to you guys if you encounter it. (Which both you guys and SJR have already seemed to developed counter tactics for.)

The better players will adapt to the situations no matter what it is. As this is beta, its good that this stuff comes up so if the devs do feel something has to change to promote a better play environment, changes will happen. (Just as they have attempted to deal with the zerg rushes in this patch, this might be addressed in future patches if it continues to be an issue.

[Krivvan]

SpiralFace, on 18 December 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

(Which both you guys and SJR have already seemed to developed counter tactics for.)

The thing about that that concerns me is that those counter tactics only work if you severely outplay the other team. It essentially means that only 4 of your people are often going to have to fight against all 12 of theirs and do a good job. We and SJR might be able to do tactically unsound stuff like that, but if it were two equal teams it would never work.

[ApolloKaras]

They are doing the same thing the Lords, or any comp team would do. Maximize your advantage given by the current game mechanics. Cowardly perhaps, smart if they want to take the planet.

Saxie - MS-

They are doing the same thing the Lords, or any comp team would do. Maximize your advantage given by the current game mechanics. Cowardly perhaps, smart if they want to take the planet.

Saxie - MS-

[Krivvan]

Saxie, on 18 December 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

They are doing the same thing the Lords, or any comp team would do. Maximize your advantage given by the current game mechanics. Cowardly perhaps, smart if they want to take the planet.

It's not their fault, but it is indicative of a possible issue with the game. SJR can attest to this when nothing they did had any affect on Turtle Bay earlier on. Now, the upcoming queue information and faction bonuses may help this, we'll see.

Edited by Krivvan, 18 December 2014 - 11:35 AM.

[3rdworld]

Numbers overcame a superior opponent.

Even the 300 died in the end.

[SpiralFace]

Krivvan, on 18 December 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

The thing about that that concerns me is that those counter tactics only work if you severely outplay the other team. It essentially means that only 4 of your people are often going to have to fight against all 12 of theirs and do a good job. We and SJR might be able to do tactically unsound stuff like that, but if it were two equal teams it would never work.

Thing is, you aren't playing to win, your simply relying on a gambit to win faster.

Delaying tactics in my opinion is just as valid of a tactic in a galactic conquest game as the Blitzkreig tactics to secure wins faster. (Provided some of the BS around ghost drop sniping planets and discrepancy's in player pools are addressed.) As long as there are options to both sides, it allows for strategy's on a larger scale. And as long as there are counter-play options (Like rushing the drop zone, splitting the group to get into different drops and influencing multiple matches at once rather then being tied down in one,) then I really don't see an issue with the strat being present in the game itself.

Now as to how EFFECTIVE that strat is is a different story, which gets back to what we where talking about earlier with the current game mode. I would be all in favor of reducing the timer, putting more pressure on the attackers to attack faster, and reducing the amount of time that delay tactics could end up holding you guys up.

But at the end of the day, even if a team is delaying the match, that still doesn't mean they are going to WIN the match. So you'll still in the end get a ticket, but it will just be at a much longer rate then you guys would be happy with.

[Krivvan]

3rdworld, on 18 December 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

Numbers overcame a superior opponent.

Even the 300 died in the end.

As they were placed into 300 vs. 300 lobbies and the rest of the Persians fought the Greek turrets.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Krivvan, on 18 December 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

It's not their fault, but it is indicative of a possible issue with the game. SJR can attest to this when nothing they did had any affect on Turtle Bay earlier on.

I will agree that the amount of influence that auto wins have is a bit too high. Having them taken out completely would be just as undesirable though. Then larger population size would be detrimental.

As for running the clock out. I'm fine with it. I find the idea of feints/diversions against stronger units to be strategically satisfying. Again, just might need a bit of tuning. I would prefer 2-3 auto wins needed to equal 1 win. That way, it reduces the effectiveness and unlike the current solution, does not involve people waiting twice as long for their drop.

[ApolloKaras]

Krivvan, on 18 December 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

It's not their fault, but it is indicative of a possible issue with the game. SJR can attest to this when nothing they did had any affect on Turtle Bay earlier on. Now, the upcoming queue information and faction bonuses may help this, we'll see.

This is true they were rolling over folks as a 12 man but in the end just overwhelmed. At least SJR can now team up with someone to get some business handled.

[Krivvan]

Rouken, on 18 December 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

I will agree that the amount of influence that auto wins have is a bit too high. Having them taken out completely would be just as undesirable though. Then larger population size would be detrimental.

As for running the clock out. I'm fine with it. I find the idea of feints/diversions against stronger units to be strategically satisfying. Again, just might need a bit of tuning. I would prefer 2-3 auto wins needed to equal 1 win. That way, it reduces the effectiveness and unlike the current solution, does not involve people waiting twice as long for their drop.

I imagine it would require some work for them to implement partial wins, hence why their solution was simply a timer increase.