84 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

I love how mixed up this all gets.

Ok guys, here's the "REAL" story, something I've been following for the past, oh, 10 years, and have been able to piece together. And please, bear with some of this because, well, this get's a little bit outlandish.

Back in 1984/5 FASA corp. decided to make a little game called "Battledroids" The idea was to caputre the awesome mecha battles they saw in japanese anime, on a home tabletop. and they did it [I think alot of us can agree on this part] however, enter one George Lucas, hot off the presses of Star Wars, who said "No no, you can't use the term 'droid' that's mine, bad FASA. So FASA said 'cool Mr. Lucas, we'll change the name."

Battledroids then became Battletech for it's Second Edition. And so ended FASA's legal troubles for about, 10 years. Then, FASA decided to try to market their IP out to toy makers, mostly due to the animation deal they had in the works. However no company would go for it. now here's where things get interesting. PLAYMATES well known toy company, kept a couple of the toy designs from Battletech that FASA had sent them... skip ahead a year, and suddenly, we have EXO SQUAD! a pretty awesome, and dark show for it's time, however if one watches the show, you'll notice a certern... TIMBERWOLF mech or atleast, something that looks suspiciously like a TImberwolf. Well FASA didn't like that very much, and said "Bad Playmates, no making money off the Timberwolf/MadCat design, that's ours."

Well Playmates had made friends with a certern legal giant known as Harmony Gold... who stepped in and said "Well well, what have we here FASA, seems you're using Macross images."

Now here's where things get even fuzzier... because the legal documents are all screwed up for this case. Harmony gold tried to say they own rights to 'all bipedal plantigrade mecha designs' which didn't hold up, it was later discovered that FASA had licensed the designs they were using [hereby known as the Unseen] from something of a fly by night licensing company that no longer existed by this time this court case happened.

So, now we start getting into what I feel is Tinfoil hat terrority. Harmony Gold couldn't win, and FASA was running out of money so they settled out of court, there was a pact made regarding the Unseen, that these designs were to be stricken from the books by FASA... and so they were.

This tradition carried on until Catalyst Game Labs got ahold of the IP and worked to bring the Unseen back, Finally, in 2010, they made an announcement that they were bringing the unseen back... Now as I said, here's where things get tinfoil hatty... Apparently Catalyst get's a call from an 'anonmous caller' saying "Remember the pact, you can't use the unseen." No one could vouch that they knew of the pact, but in fear of additional legal actions... the unseen became unseen yet again... This was timed in regards to the same time as when Harmony Gold sent out a C&D on the Mechwarrior 3015 trailer for the likeness of the Thomahawk Destroid. [warhammer]

From this point on, it's as it has been, according to PGI Harmony gold has no bearing on anything in regards to the Unseen... and Catalyst released the Unseen as "Reseen" with full redesigns. [which would go though PGI's artist anyway for further redesign.]

so, so far as the unseen making it into MWO... well... anything's possible at this point.

[Schtirlitz]

They do negociate for introducing all mechs in the games.
So we wait and hope

[Elizander]

I just found the Japanese version of the Battlemaster (I know this is odd because the Battlemaster's original design came from Japan )



Not saying it's better or worse. Just wanted to post it here.

(I found all the Japanese Battletech designs here - http://www.gearsonli...ttletech/mecha/ )

[Rychard Starheart]

Elizander, on 01 July 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

I just found the Japanese version of the Battlemaster
(I found all the Japanese Battletech designs here - http://www.gearsonli...ttletech/mecha/ )

god. it looks like every one of those fell out of the ugly tree and hit every limb on the way down.

[grimzod]

ZOMBIEKILLER, on 27 June 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

does anyone know if they will be getting the battlemaster ingame to play

FASA used the robot designs from three anime programs: Macross, Crusher Joe, and Dougram.

Ryosuke Takahashi's anime series Sun's Fang Dougram was created in response to the success of rival Nippon Sunrise's Mobile Suit Gundam, the first giant robot series to incorporate valid mechanical principles into its robot designs. Dougram went Gundam one better, introducing mecha designed with a hard-edged look appropriate to military hardware, one the (sic) reflected Takahashi's darker view of human nature. Takahashi went on to create Armored Trooper Votoms, Round Vernian Vifam, Panzer World Galient and Blue Meteor SPT Layzner, all of which reflected his views of warfare and its effects on victor and vanquished alike. Dougram was, in many ways, a mirror image of Gundam -- a gritty, realistic view of futuristic warfare devoid of glamour.

The setting is the planet Deloyer in the 152nd year of the Space Calendar (SC 152). Deloyer has declared independence from the United Nations Of Earth, which has sent an occupation force to insure continued shipments of the raw materials needed to support Earth's global industrial complex. Their primary weapons are the Combat Armor machines, which range from walking tanks to giant humanoids, all armed with the deadly Linear Guns. The D-7 Dougram is the prototype for a new generation of Combat Armor: stronger, faster and more maneuverable than any of its predecessors. When Denon Cashim, governor of Deloyer, orders the destruction of a rebel stronghold, his son Crinn Cashim takes off in the Dougram and joins the rebel army known as Guerilla...

BattleTech = Sun's Fang Dougram
----------------------- ------------------
BLR-1G BattleMaster = Soltic HT-128 Bigfoot
GOL-1H Goliath = Abitate F44A CrabGunner
GRF-1N Griffin = Soltic H8-RF Roundfacer
SCP-1N Scorpion = Abitate F35C BlizzardGunner
SHD-2H ShadowHawk = D-7 Dougram (JAKT Type)
TDR-5S Thunderbolt = Hasty F4X Ironfoot
WVR-6R Wolverine = Abitate T-10C Blockhead

FASA must have dropped the Crusher Joe and Dougram designs to avoid more lawsuits.

Edited by grimzod, 01 July 2012 - 11:10 AM.

[Voiddog]

The Warhammer is a robotech design but dont they use it in the intro video?

[Donovan Jenks]

Rayzor, on 27 June 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

I actually liked the Re-seen BattleMaster A LOT better than the Unseen.

I agree, I had thought that the designs for the "unseen" mechs were all redone when Catalyst took over publishing Classic Battletech and this effectively circumvented the issue. I personally like the new designs better and as long as they are able to equip the same weapon hardpoints it does nothing to change their effectiveness on the battle field.

None of the names Battletech used were the same so what is the issue, people really want the original models used?

[Jiri Starrider]

Removed - better answered above.

Jason Phoenix, on 27 June 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

Yes Sire !!!

They have comfirmed the Battlemaster, all the Unseen/Reseen and at least the Clan Mechs already... You will even be able to setup furniture in your own Leopard Dropship !!!

Its been confirmed in an hidden Post by Comstar somewhere in the Beta Forums, at least thats what a friend of mine told me.

I just cant wait to play the game

Spoiler

Gotcha !!!

Never Troll a Master Troll they say

Obvious Troll is Obvious

Edited by Jiri Starrider, 01 July 2012 - 11:42 AM.

[Jiri Starrider]

Iron Harlequin, on 27 June 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

They could probably get away with adding all of the unseen mechs. Because they wouldn't be unseen then, apparently the majority of people here cant get it through their thick skulls that PGI has their own artists. So it wouldn't look like the Unseen, or Reseen/Project Phoenix garbage.

If you haven't noticed the PGI designs look different from their originals, for example, the Original Centurion looks like garbage compared to PGI's Centurion.

Before PGI's "makeover"




After





So imagine what they can make the Battlemaster look like.

^This

[Donovan Jenks]

Voiddog, on 01 July 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

The Warhammer is a robotech design but dont they use it in the intro video?

yeah, the orginal trailer for Mechwarrior 5 in 2009 has the Warhammer in it. That was when Tinker Smith was publishing and consequently that trailer sparked alot of leagal trouble that delayed development on what become Mechwarrior Online.

[Deathz Jester]

Cool, this thread has turned into a spiraling argument about the origins of Battletech.

now its useless,

*lights flares for lock*

[Deathz Jester]

Jiri Starrider, on 01 July 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

^This

I think you're the only person that took the 3 seconds to read that post, thank you.

[Jiri Starrider]

Voiddog, on 01 July 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

The Warhammer is a robotech design but dont they use it in the intro video?

Which gives me hope that it will show up in game. If there was a C&D or such, wouldn't they have stopped hosting the offending image?

[Ghostrider45]

they were copy wrightet in japan not in U.S.!!

[Karyudo ds]

It's just amazing how ignorant people remain of where this stuff came from.

Donovan Jenks, on 01 July 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

I agree, I had thought that the designs for the "unseen" mechs were all redone when Catalyst took over publishing Classic Battletech and this effectively circumvented the issue.

None of the names Battletech used were the same so what is the issue, people really want the original models used?

Catalyst had nothing to do with it, the designs came around when FanPro had the property. Oddly enough the name Valkyrie is a lot like the name Valkyrie they used in Macross, it only seemed to share the exact same head though.

Voiddog, on 01 July 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

The Warhammer is a robotech design but dont they use it in the intro video?

Robotech designed NOTHING. The Tomahawk was a Macross design, that was sold to Harmony Gold by someone who didn't even own it. Currently, there is no such thing as an intro video, that other video as explained was to sell the idea of a new Mechwarrior. Turned into this.

Buddahcjcc, on 01 July 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Wow its not just "they look kinda similar" either O.o

Yeah Loose wasn't very keen on originality but that might've been specifically what they stupidly were asking for at the time.

[Buck Rogers]

In my opinion Battletech fans need to remember what big creeps Harmony Gold have been in the past. They are the enemy franchise, and they will lose sooner or later.

Their enthusiasm for being trolls and ruining anybody and everybody's day will run out.

We'll get our unseen mechs back, because while they will eventually waver, we will not.

So say we all.

[Karyudo ds]

buck rogers, on 01 July 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

We'll get our unseen mechs back, because while they will eventually waver, we will not.

Big West MIGHT disagree with that...

[Falcor]

The re-seen versions are still fair game though, right? The new battlemaster looks awesome.

[Deathz Jester]

So people still dont get that IGP has their own team of artists..... cool.

Guess I'll come back when people start thinking "hey, maybe pre-existing designs would be stupid, since IGP has redone all of the mechs in their own style"

[ORIGINAL SteelWolf]

Since you don't see the outside of your mech like some xbox games with power ups [shiver], then you can imagine your piloting what ever mech you want. Simply pick the matching tonnage. Do a load out similar in design and load into the game. All you see is a window and some HUDs. Sure one of them says what your piloting, but that can be ignored.

Personally i'd like to see what IGP can do with the Battlemaster design. Even if they just create and image and upload it to a off site untraceable back to them site.