18 replies to this topic

[Abivard]

Can anyone tell me why clan Wolf can attack FRR worlds but the FRR is unable to attack any wolf held worlds?

[Deathlike]

You can help defend other faction planets (IS can help other IS, Clan can help other Clan).

You can only attack factions with planets near your boarders though.

When you launch an attack on a Clan faction, all Clanners (Jade Falcon, Smoke Jaguar, Wolf, and Ghost Bear) can defend it.

All the contracts for defense can be your own planets, or other IS factions (since you are currently in an IS faction).

The weird stuff happens when a house or clan attacks their own... where the defense can ironically be members of your own faction.

Edited by Deathlike, 20 December 2014 - 12:17 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

Deathlike, on 20 December 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

The weird stuff happens when a house or clan attacks their own... where the defense can ironically be members of your own faction.

Never seen that.

Welll, neither the Clans or the Houses are particularly monolithic, right? Couldn't you explain that as Crusaders vs Wardens or something like that?

[KuroNyra]

Deathlike, on 20 December 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

The weird stuff happens when a house or clan attacks their own... where the defense can ironically be members of your own faction.

Neg.
For an attack against a Clan planet.

Other Clans will be able to defend it.
But your Clan will see it has an attack.

[Ax2Grind]

Abivard, on 20 December 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

Can anyone tell me why clan Wolf can attack FRR worlds but the FRR is unable to attack any wolf held worlds?

This has existed for some time between Ghost Bear and Smoke Jags as well...for some reason an attack corridor never opened again into Smoke Jags (not that GB wanted one) but for many turns SJ has had an attack lane on GB. You would think if a border exists then there will always be an attack and a defense lane, as suggested by Russ I think, but this has not always been true. If PGI is using some kind of tool for finding lanes my best guess is that the nearest planet which can be attacked is too far away. However, my gut says that PGI is just deciding which lanes are open arbitrarily. For one turn GB could not attack Kurita, and then on a second turn nothing had changed and we still couldn't attack, but they could attack GB. Complaints got filed on Twitter...and an attack lane opened up a short time into that turn...but it was not there to begin with.

[Willard Phule]

Ax2Grind, on 20 December 2014 - 02:55 AM, said:

This has existed for some time between Ghost Bear and Smoke Jags as well...for some reason an attack corridor never opened again into Smoke Jags (not that GB wanted one) but for many turns SJ has had an attack lane on GB. You would think if a border exists then there will always be an attack and a defense lane, as suggested by Russ I think, but this has not always been true. If PGI is using some kind of tool for finding lanes my best guess is that the nearest planet which can be attacked is too far away. However, my gut says that PGI is just deciding which lanes are open arbitrarily. For one turn GB could not attack Kurita, and then on a second turn nothing had changed and we still couldn't attack, but they could attack GB. Complaints got filed on Twitter...and an attack lane opened up a short time into that turn...but it was not there to begin with.

That kind of makes sense, since Twitter is the official information release site for MW:O.

That being said...why are the Clans allowed to fight each other? It's as if PGI is re-writing yet another important thing about canon.

Not only did the 4th succession war never happen..not only is there no "Federated Commonwealth," like there should have been for over 20 years...apparently there is no Ilkhan around to tell the Clans that they're supposed to focus on Terra, not fighting each other.

Go figure.

[Tarogato]

@OP, this is bothering me as well.

We have a border with Wolf. They have a planet of ours they can attack directly. But we don't have a planet of theirs that we can attack.

Since we have non-aggression pacts with DC and LC, it'd be nice to be able to take back some worlds from the Wolfs. That's the whole reason we established truces with our IS compatriots.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

The way I understood it was that you would have at least one attack for each faction you shared a border with. The only explanation I can think of otherwise, is that each faction has a maximum number of attacks it can have each turn and that number is smaller than the number of factions you share a border with you won't be able to attack everyone.

It seems that Wolf has 4 attacks each turn. Is this the same for FRR?

[McQueen]

The same thing happened to Steiner middle of last week. Wolves could attack us, but we could not attack them. It changed the next day with no explanation given.

[Willard Phule]

Tarogato, on 20 December 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

@OP, this is bothering me as well.

We have a border with Wolf. They have a planet of ours they can attack directly. But we don't have a planet of theirs that we can attack.

Since we have non-aggression pacts with DC and LC, it'd be nice to be able to take back some worlds from the Wolfs. That's the whole reason we established truces with our IS compatriots.

Again, since we're not going by any sort of story line canon, there's absolutely NO reason why the FRR shouldn't be able to shove the Clans out of the Inner Sphere altogether.

It's not as if the Clans have an overall leader that can tell them not to fight each other...that's why the invasion corridor is so janked right now.

As long as we're allowed to destroy ourselves long before we even come close to Terra, there's a good chance that the uneducated members of the Inner Sphere can defeat the genetically designed warriors with superior technology....especially after Paul takes his football bat to the the Clan mechs again.

[Scratx]

The algorithm seems to have issues. I probably should point out, though, some of these issues may actually have to do with intended behaviour that isn't transparent to the player.

Let's take for example...

Let's pretend faction A and faction B have a very narrow border with each other. In fact, A and B each have only one planet that border each other.

Planet C is owned by A, Planet D is owned by B. Straightforward thinking, make both contestable. Easy, right?

Whoa, hold on to your horses... it is not quite that simple. What happens afterwards? If A takes D and defends C, it is straightforward. If B takes C and defends D, likewise. But if A takes D and loses C, then the two factions just swapped planets?

How is A even attacking D if it has to ferry troops through C, which is under attack? And likewise, how does B do the same?

This kind of stuff might be going on under the hood...

[Angel of Annihilation]

Actually think about this for a minute.

It is the Clan Invasion right? Invasion means the Clan is on the Offensive which means attack. IS is on the defensive, which means defend.

So doesn't it kind of make a whole lot of sense that the Clans should primarily be attacking right now, not defending??

Also lets talk about triggers. Let say the Clans are flagged as being on the offensive then lets think about how the might change from the offensive to the defensive or what might trigger that. Well the obvious one is that the defending faction actually managed to defend their worlds right. Basically once the defending faction halts all forward progress of the invasion, then and only then do they usually start counter attacking. So again wouldn't it make a whole hell of alot of sense that as soon as the IS gets off its collective butt and halts the the Clan's taking new planets every day, that the opportunity to counter attack would open up and then the Clans would find themselves on the defensive??

Anyway, not sure this is the logic behind PGI decisions on which planets to open up to attack but if I was in charge of designating these planets, this is how I would do it.

[Willard Phule]

Viktor Drake, on 20 December 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

Actually think about this for a minute.

It is the Clan Invasion right? Invasion means the Clan is on the Offensive which means attack. IS is on the defensive, which means defend.

So doesn't it kind of make a whole lot of sense that the Clans should primarily be attacking right now, not defending??

Also lets talk about triggers. Let say the Clans are flagged as being on the offensive then lets think about how the might change from the offensive to the defensive or what might trigger that. Well the obvious one is that the defending faction actually managed to defend their worlds right. Basically once the defending faction halts all forward progress of the invasion, then and only then do they usually start counter attacking. So again wouldn't it make a whole hell of alot of sense that as soon as the IS gets off its collective butt and halts the the Clan's taking new planets every day, that the opportunity to counter attack would open up and then the Clans would find themselves on the defensive??

Anyway, not sure this is the logic behind PGI decisions on which planets to open up to attack but if I was in charge of designating these planets, this is how I would do it.

Your theory is sound, but you've ignored one IMPORTANT factor.....

Paul.

First of all, this isn't the "Clan Invasion." If it were the "Clan Invasion," our ILKHAN would have told us to stop fighting amongst ourselves and focus on Terra. That's OBVIOUSLY not the case as we are attacking each other throughout the invasion corridor.

Secondly, we're not "the Clans." The Clans are technologically superior, genetically bred warriors that operate in 5-man Stars.

In MW:O, "the Clans" are technologically inferior, short handed, inbred idiots that have somehow accidentally wandered into the Inner Sphere and must be chastised for their arrogance.

We will NEVER make it to Tukkayyid because we're going to get shoved out of the Inner Sphere long before it ever comes to that.

Welcome to Canadian Rules Battletech.

Edited by Willard Phule, 22 December 2014 - 05:29 AM.

[jajsamurai]

In addition to NOT having a wolf planet we can attack even though we share a border. The FRR DOES have a planet they can attack in both Jade Falcon and Smoke Jaguar despite the fact that we don't share a border with either of them.

FRR can attack these 5 factions: DC, LC, CGB, CSM, CJF but our borders are actually like this : DC, LC, CGB, CW
Oddly enough we only have 4 planets to defend. it appears we are defending a border with DC, LC, Clan Wolf and Clan Ghost Bear.

So clan wolf can (and has) attacked us, but we can't attack them back.
on the other hand we can attack both CSJ, and CJF, and they can't attack us back.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Wolf is in uncharted space. How would FRR even know where to send ships? I suppose eventually they could capture Wolf star charts.

[Dagadegatto]

Scratx, on 20 December 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

The algorithm seems to have issues. I probably should point out, though, some of these issues may actually have to do with intended behaviour that isn't transparent to the player.

Let's take for example...

Let's pretend faction A and faction B have a very narrow border with each other. In fact, A and B each have only one planet that border each other.

Planet C is owned by A, Planet D is owned by B. Straightforward thinking, make both contestable. Easy, right?

Whoa, hold on to your horses... it is not quite that simple. What happens afterwards? If A takes D and defends C, it is straightforward. If B takes C and defends D, likewise. But if A takes D and loses C, then the two factions just swapped planets?

How is A even attacking D if it has to ferry troops through C, which is under attack? And likewise, how does B do the same?

This kind of stuff might be going on under the hood...

This makes sense.

[Ax2Grind]

Dagadegatto, on 26 December 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

This makes sense.

No it does not.

[AztecD]

MechWarrior5152251, on 24 December 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

Wolf is in uncharted space. How would FRR even know where to send ships? I suppose eventually they could capture Wolf star charts.

The clan invasion corridors where opened by wave after wave of clan attacks, the old oberon confederation, the elysian fields and the greater valkyrate where crushed by the 1st wave of clan attackers.

as the clans progresses the houses borders got pushed back, but its not as if they somehow forgot how to get to those worlds on their own.

more data on sarna
http://www.sarna.net...i/Clan_Invasion

[Lukoi Banacek]

Abivard, on 20 December 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

Can anyone tell me why clan Wolf can attack FRR worlds but the FRR is unable to attack any wolf held worlds?

Right now FRR can attack Idlewind (CSJ) but we cannot attack anything in FRR.

So....PGI features are alive and well.