18 replies to this topic

[Strikeshadow]

The easiest way to balance PUG play against premades is to give the pugs about a 50% ELO (skill level) advantage.

Edited by Strikeshadow, 21 December 2014 - 09:52 AM.

[RG Notch]

Strikeshadow, on 21 December 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

The easiest way to balance PUG play against premades is to give the pugs about a 50% ELO (skill level) advantage.

That'll be great since there's no Elo balancing in CW.

[Strikeshadow]

RG Notch, on 21 December 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

That'll be great since there's no Elo balancing in CW.

Wow, once the touranament ends I doubt any pugs will play.

[Tangelis]

I'm of the feeling the bulk of CW is likely pugs.

[RG Notch]

Strikeshadow, on 21 December 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Wow, once the touranament ends I doubt any pugs will play.

Hopefully the ones that keep whining.

[Strikeshadow]

Until the tournament started, I didn't play it at all. Teamwork is really all that matters on those maps and chat based teamwork is never going to work against premade voice chat.

[hybrid black]

Strikeshadow, on 21 December 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

Until the tournament started, I didn't play it at all. Teamwork is really all that matters on those maps and chat based teamwork is never going to work against premade voice chat.

99% of our chat is jokes, making fun of each other and well not really in game stuff, lots of 4 chan links, oh and a big one is making fun of peoples builds we see

[Roadbeer]

What say we not suggest bringing in the systems that have made the PUG queue a nightmare for the last 2 years, and hardly, if ever work?

No Elo
No 3/3/3/3 (or even 1/1/1/1)
No nothing.

Weight balancing is working fine for keeping teams even. If you're struggling, then you're just getting outplayed.
Find a unit or type faster in chat please.

Edited by Roadbeer, 21 December 2014 - 10:26 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Strikeshadow, on 21 December 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

Until the tournament started, I didn't play it at all. Teamwork is really all that matters on those maps and chat based teamwork is never going to work against premade voice chat.

Except that many of us are rolling groups with pugs all the time.

[Strikeshadow]

MischiefSC, on 21 December 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Except that many of us are rolling groups with pugs all the time.

In other words, ELO unbalanced.

[Aresye]

You already have a huge advantage by being a pug team, and that's complacency.

Seriously.

Like, all you have to do is coordinate a push/get people to target a gate, and most of the time you can take a 12man premade by complete surprise. 12mans don't expect coordinated pugs.

Problem is most pug teams almost nobody takes charge, or if they do, they expect others to take the risks without risking themselves, but if you take charge and lead, all they have to do is follow. Granted, sometimes you just get a team that's beyond saving, but more often than not just some polite orders and a concise plan can motivate everybody to perform well.

Voice chat has very little to do with success. Did you know the Lords frequently play without any of them being in comms? That means success has more to do with each player knowing where to be, sticking together, nobody being a hero, and focus firing in order from the highest to lowest threat.

Once again, you're in charge of your own pain. Stop asking the devs to implement a system that caters to a crap playstyle of non-coordination, and start taking charge of your own drops.

You know what they say, if you constantly find yourself on crap teams, it's time to look at the common denominator. I personally don't have problems with pug drops because most of the time, I can rally the team together with a simple, "We're going to push at ____ on the clock, everybody ready?"

[Strikeshadow]

Aresye, on 21 December 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

You already have a huge advantage by being a pug team, and that's complacency.

Seriously.

Like, all you have to do is coordinate a push/get people to target a gate, and most of the time you can take a 12man premade by complete surprise. 12mans don't expect coordinated pugs.

Problem is most pug teams almost nobody takes charge, or if they do, they expect others to take the risks without risking themselves, but if you take charge and lead, all they have to do is follow. Granted, sometimes you just get a team that's beyond saving, but more often than not just some polite orders and a concise plan can motivate everybody to perform well.

Voice chat has very little to do with success. Did you know the Lords frequently play without any of them being in comms? That means success has more to do with each player knowing where to be, sticking together, nobody being a hero, and focus firing in order from the highest to lowest threat.

Once again, you're in charge of your own pain. Stop asking the devs to implement a system that caters to a crap playstyle of non-coordination, and start taking charge of your own drops.

You know what they say, if you constantly find yourself on crap teams, it's time to look at the common denominator. I personally don't have problems with pug drops because most of the time, I can rally the team together with a simple, "We're going to push at ____ on the clock, everybody ready?"

Before I answer, do you ride clan or IS mechs into CW?

[Roadbeer]

Strikeshadow, on 21 December 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

Before I answer, do you ride clan or IS mechs into CW?

OBJECTION!
Irrelevant.

[Davers]

Strikeshadow, on 21 December 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

Before I answer, do you ride clan or IS mechs into CW?

You can just look at his Faction Icon.

[MischiefSC]

Strikeshadow, on 21 December 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

In other words, ELO unbalanced.

Elo has no place in CW. You don't get to take a planet from a faction because you never actually had to fight any of them who were any good.

The purpose of Elo and the pug/premade queues is to give the most balanced possible matches for a good challenging fight most the time. Each match starts and ends completely right there and all that matters is score and the win. That's great, I've played thousands and thousands and thousands of matches and will likely play thousands more.

CW is about a war between factions however. It's not about you or me. Not about your match or my match. It's about all these factions going all out for the win. The best players on the best teams do and should win often, take objectives and win worlds. Other teams need to focus on objectives to drive wins and when possible tar pit those teams they know they can't beat. There's a lot of options for playing CW and winning.

Saying you want the game to make sure that the other side in a war doesn't get to field better trained or better equipped troops than you isn't one of them.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Aresye, on 21 December 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

You already have a huge advantage by being a pug team, and that's complacency.

Seriously.

Like, all you have to do is coordinate a push/get people to target a gate, and most of the time you can take a 12man premade by complete surprise. 12mans don't expect coordinated pugs.

Problem is most pug teams almost nobody takes charge, or if they do, they expect others to take the risks without risking themselves, but if you take charge and lead, all they have to do is follow. Granted, sometimes you just get a team that's beyond saving, but more often than not just some polite orders and a concise plan can motivate everybody to perform well.

Voice chat has very little to do with success. Did you know the Lords frequently play without any of them being in comms? That means success has more to do with each player knowing where to be, sticking together, nobody being a hero, and focus firing in order from the highest to lowest threat.

Once again, you're in charge of your own pain. Stop asking the devs to implement a system that caters to a crap playstyle of non-coordination, and start taking charge of your own drops.

You know what they say, if you constantly find yourself on crap teams, it's time to look at the common denominator. I personally don't have problems with pug drops because most of the time, I can rally the team together with a simple, "We're going to push at ____ on the clock, everybody ready?"

The problem with taking charge is that no one listens. Honestly I try my ass off to direct matches when I run with PUGs and even lead from the front. Generally all it gains me is being dead because as soon as all the rest of the team hits the gate, they stop 2-3 abrest in the murder hole an try to out fight 8-10 enemy in a firing line all concentrating on firing at anything standing in the gate.

Honestly the vast majority of PUGs can't figure out that in order to split fire you have to ALL go through at once and going through at once is what is required to make a beach head from which you can fight your way out.

Best damn PUG tactic I have seen on Boreal due to the nature of PUGs requiring a simple plan is break Alpha, rush the trench to the left to break line of sight from the firing lines on the two hills and then defend the trench because inevitably the enemy will try to come at you over the little hills there and run right into your firing line. Usually they straggle in as well and that little hill means they have to expose themselves fully before they can bring 70% of their firepower to bear. This means you can easily out attrition them but damnit you have to get through the damn gate.

Anyway, back to the topic, sure you can try to lead, but it is only going to work some of the time and only if enough people can see the forest, despite the trees and no, VOIP isn't going to make things better for PUGs.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 21 December 2014 - 05:42 PM.

[Desdain]

Strikeshadow, on 21 December 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

Until the tournament started, I didn't play it at all. Teamwork is really all that matters on those maps and chat based teamwork is never going to work against premade voice chat.

I'd go a bit further and say that it's really the PUG spirit which fails against a premade. I've had many more matches where the PUG team just ignores any attempt at coordination than where they act as a team. They go off solo. Ignore suggestions and just generally behave without a care for what's at stake.

It drives me nuts.

[Aresye]

Strikeshadow, on 21 December 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

Before I answer, do you ride clan or IS mechs into CW?

Irrelevant at best. A good team in a normal group drop will average between 200-400 damage and 1 or 2 kills amongst each player. Clans may have a range advantage and hit harder, but 200-400 damage is well within the scope of any IS mech.

The problem with the majority of solo players, is every one of them thinks they're a hero. They all think they have to carry a huge portion of the team, and (ironically) end up bringing down their team. You have to make it known early on at the start of the drop, that you're a single entity. Everybody from the strongest to weakest player are all part of a single unit, and that single unit is what wins games.

It's a mindset, not an order. You can't just tell the team, "stick together," and expect them to stick together. You have to ingrain it into the team early on that all 12 of your mechs make up a single unit. Everybody moves together, shoots together, kills and dies together.

[Sandpit]

Strikeshadow, on 21 December 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Wow, once the touranament ends I doubt any pugs will play.

Riiight
Let's see
I'm a pug
I'm a solo

I love the way cw is setup

Looks like you might be exaggerating just a bit?

Strikeshadow, on 21 December 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

Before I answer, do you ride clan or IS mechs into CW?

Oh and I'm IS exclusively and i agree with everything he said.
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